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Author Topic: Budget Belcher  (Read 2429 times)
Mortal Wombat
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« on: October 17, 2004, 07:25:56 pm »

I have played budget belcher for about the past half-year.  I have played FCG, U/G madness, and other budget decks, but this one has worked the best for me.
Budget Belcher:
Mana: (31)
4x Land Grant
4x Tinder Wall
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
1x Bayou
4x Dark Ritual
2x Cabal Ritual
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
1x Grim Monolith
1x Chrome Mox
1x Mana Crypt
1x Channel
1x Lotus Petal
Tutors: (7)
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Tinker
1x Tainted Pact
Cards that Win: (11)
1x Darksteel Colossus
4x Goblin Charbelcher
1x Necropotence
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Memory Jar
1x Windfall
Utility (10)
4x Goblin Welder
4x Chromatic Sphere
1x Naturalize
1x Xantid Swarm
1x OPEN

Mana:  Pretty standard stuff.  I have tested both, and never have wished to switch to one land.  Birds, in a moxless build, provide a key source of reusable mana, adding also color fixing in a 5c deck.  They add very needed consistency.
Tutors:  Also standard.  No Spoils or Plunges, as they have proved to me to be not worth the life loss, as this deck most often casts a tutor and has to wait a turn before winning.  Spoils might go back in for the open slot, if I don't find anything else.
Cards that win:  Bargain is an opinion choice, as it is not reliably cast, but when it is cast, does win that turn.  Colossus is due to this deck's weakness to Null Rod, as this deck has potentially about 5 Tinkers, and it is easier than finding and casting Naturalize and then playing Belcher.  Mind's Desire is uncastable.
Utility:
Four Welders go a LONG way in shoring up the control matchup, drastically improving this deck's chances against 4CC, Tog, Landstill, and random control.
Naturalize is there for random artifacts/enchantments, is the other way of getting around Null Rod.
Xantid: Good disruption, more on board, fills last slots, see Welder's explanation, incredible counterbait.
Living Wish, with Workshop not available, and Academy not nearly as helpful, these were cut.
OPEN: What to put in here? Xantid, Spoils, Pact, what?
SB:
3x Xantid Swarm
4x Duress
4x Chalice of the Void
Hurkyll's Recall?
Naturalize?
Oxidise?
Tormod's Crypt?
Ground Seal?
That is another point that needs to be improved.
Why this deck should be played:  It has more raw power and brokenness than FCG or Madness budget, goldfishing in 2.6 turns.  It still defeats aggro, and has a decent game against control.  This is why, despite weaknesses against combo and prison, I think that it is a viable budget deck.  
Please post suggestions, etc.

Edit:  Here are some sample goldfishes:
Hand: Land Grant, 2 Dark Rituals, Cabal Ritual, Chromatic Sphere, Windfall, Tinder Wall.
Draw Tainted Pact, Land Grant, fetching Bayou, double Dark Rit: BBBBB, play and sac Chromatic Sphere, drawing Spoils: BBBU.  Spoils-ESG, I lose seven, remove ESG, play Tinder Wall, sac it, Tainted Pact, get Lotus Petal, play it, Cabal Rit: BBBBBU, Windfall: BBB, draw Cabal Rit, 2x Tinder Wall, Birds, Naturalize, Wheel, Bargain.  Cabal Rit: BBBBBB, play Bargain, and either slow-play and win next turn or Bargain for 13 and win.

Hand:  Memory Jar, 2x ESG, Channel Very Happy , Tinder Wall, Spoils, Dark Rit.  Channel-Memory Jar, (15 life)-Draw: Yawgmoth's Will, 2x Birds, Bargain, Consultation, Crypt, Sphere.  Play Crypt, blow Sphere for B, draw Sphere, play and blow for B (13), draw Lotus Petal, play and blow for G, Yawgmoth's Will (11): BG, replay Petal, play Jar (6) Blow to find Mana Vault, Dark Ritual, Demonic Tutor, Tinder Wall, Sol Ring, Wheel of Fortune, Necro.  I blow Petal for R, play Mana Vault and Ring (5): 3BGR, Dark Rit: 3BBBGR, Tutor-Belcher:2BBGR, use four life- 6BBGR, Belcher, Wheel, draw Land Grant, Grant, and activate (SO PERFECT)

Thses were the first two goldfishes I did, and, while not fully representative of a typical game, they demonstrate the brokenness of the deck.  The last one shows one of my typical paths to victory-Use a random broken card and go nuts.  It also shows how I have room for 2-3 random slots, as the deck normally uses only 4-5 cards in hand.  While Birds seems to be a dead card, in real life, rather than goldfishing, it has more than proven its worth, also allowing the off-color cards.
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newshoes82
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2004, 11:46:27 pm »

Unfortunately, Budget Belcher just seems way to slow to keep up with most decks. You really thrive on your moxen because you run only 2 lands, not to mention timetwister, which is just insane in this deck.

My teams current belcher build runs living wish with tolarian academy in the sideboard, but you don't have the moxen to support this. I don't really know what to suggest to help this deck out. But if you're dedicated to this, then I would suggest a living wish build with more of a utility sideboard that runs "sex monkeys" to take care of those pesky null rods, or trinospheres which just completely wreck this deck.
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Team Doug Musser
Kasuras
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2004, 02:01:17 am »

I've played this deck too, and as it looks: you've continued with my build. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

(The thread where my belcher build was, was once in the budget forum which is removed. So alas.)

I have a friend that still plays the deck, and he has a pretty stable turn1 to 3 kill. (I'll ask for his list if you want to)

About the spoils: I certainly agree with you on that. The lifeloss sucks pretty hard. I'd like to know where your brainstorms are. Since you lack a high number of bombs, you definately need the brainstorms to find those that you do have.

And finally: the Living Wishes are really good. I would suggest you run 2 of them, and remove the random Naturalize and Xantid Swarm. Living Wish can be run because you have the BoPs; they give you continueing mana. A sideboard 4th Welder and Xantid Swarm is very good, just like Mana Crypt.

Well, good luck on the deck and I hope I helped you some with this.
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Pern
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2004, 09:44:55 am »

Quote from: Mortal Wombat
Mana:  Pretty standard stuff.  I have tested both, and never have wished to switch to one land.


I only see the Bayou.
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meh.
Mortal Wombat
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2004, 02:45:10 pm »

Newshoes:  I'm aware of how well the moxen are useful in the powered deck, as I have played it before.  However, I still think this has potential, as it still has aggro as byes, still has decent game against control, and can still pull off broken plays and random wins due to the restricted cards and fast mana.  Compare that to, say, FCG, which, in my experience, has weaker matchups in everything except Stax.  Also, Living Wish is not good at all in this deck.  The strength in non-budget was the ability to act as a ritual as well as utility.  In this, I tested it, and I never used it except to fetch Xantid Swarm, but 75% of the time, it just sat there as a dead card.  This deck almost never has the time to play 1G, get a Swarm, G, play it, wait, attack.  The Naturalize is just for random utility.  (3Sphere, Chalice)

Kasuras: I haven't seen your build.  What differences did it have?

Pern:  My bad, I meant to say I have never wished to switch back to two lands
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Ifflejink
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2004, 05:06:51 pm »

I have a question about your sideboard. Why on Earth do you have 4x Chalice of the Void? Feasably, the only thing you could set them to would be one, which would shut down quite a bit of your acceleration. It seems to me that it would just be a better idea to keep Living Wish, and utilize it. When your opponent is playing Trinisphere or Chalice, it's not fun to be stuck with Naturalize as the only artifact destruction in your deck. Plus, insuring yourself with a Scavenger Folk never hurts.
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Mortal Wombat
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2004, 05:11:52 pm »

Ifflejink:
I am working on the board.  In all probability, the last 8 or so slots I will rarely use, and Chalice was just there against faster combo decks, to set for zero.  THat is something I would like to discuss:  what cards in the maindeck/SB could I put in to fight, say, powered Belcher?  Or DeathLong?  The Chalices haven't been horrible, certainly hurting them with their 6 more pieces of acceleration costing 0, and rarely hurting me (I would NEVER cast them for 1).  However, they do feel suboptimal, and what is a better replacement?.
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Ifflejink
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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2004, 05:52:22 pm »

I'd say that running Living Wish and then replacing the Chalices with wish targets would work much better. A huge problem with relying on playing Chalice for 0 is that you would have to go first for it to be effective, and it would be a dead card otherwise.

Edit: On closer inspection, it seems that you only run one land, which denies you the ability to use Land Grant, which is a great mana-fixer and the equivalent of a Mox here, sans the ability to weld it. Although running two lands could cause issues with the amount of damage that you would normally Belch for, Land Grant takes care of that.
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"Damn! Hell makes a yummy bagel."- Johnny, the Homicidal Maniac

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Mortal Wombat
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2004, 06:06:51 pm »

Living Wish is not good at all, in my testing.  In the aggro matchup it is too slow, and I would rather just goldfish.  In the control matchup I would always rather a threat/tutor.  In other combo, it is too slow.  As I said, I rarely use the board, so a Wishboard I could always free up slots for.  

However, there are a couple of things which make Chalice still attractive for me.  Other combo hate tools like Null Rod and 3Sphere are obviously out, and I need something to disrupt the combo.  I almost sort of have to shift to control in that matchup.  That's where Duress and Chalice come in, because if I reduce the game to a a more random, topdeck-based state, which is the goal (Ex-Turn 1-Accel, Chalice for 0, Duress, taking away business, they Duress back, they have perhaps 4 cards with which to work, including land) I have more of a chance.  Starting off, as the game passes the first 2 turns, winning is a lot easier, because I have had time to cast accel, and I can just randomly win.

Also, if they are on the play, I just won't board them in.  Really, if I have won the first, I am in good shape already.  In addition, it is a TON easier to find cards you are willing to SB out against combo.
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