Artificer's Clamp

[Toad]

Sensei's Divining Top is just a bad, bad Scroll Rack. Especially in a deck with only 4 shuffling effects.

[ruken]

I gave this deck a brief whirl on Apprentice last night, as I'm looking for a replacement for 4cc in the upcoming Lakewood Mox tourney at Tabletop Games.  I'll either have to stick with 4cc or find a different deck.  This deck is a PILE.

Granted, I wasn't playing it extraordinarily well, but I did run into an alarming number of situations where a single card stopped me in my tracks.  More problematic was the fact that that single card could have been anything from a Trinisphere to a Swords to Plowshares or Seal of Cleansing.  While any decent deck will be horribly crippled by a few hosers, this deck dies to all of them.. except maybe Ground Seal.  Even Coffin Purge shuts down the Myr Servitor engine, which is in and of itself absurdly bad.

Artificer's Intuition is retarded as well.  Mike Long has never shied away from card-disadvantage combos, as evidenced by his heavy reliance on Mirage tutors; the problem is in this deck is that there is very little worth tutoring for, especially with Mystical Tutor.  Unfortunately, the innate parts of the deck pack so little punch in and of themselves that they don't lend themselves to sit as 'extras' in your hand; you will likely need to squeeze every last drop of advantage you possibly can out of your hand, and by the time you manage to force out an Artificer's Intuition, you've got nothing in your hand to use it with.

Trinket Mage would be infinitely better in place of Artificer's Intuition, as you're likely to go for Skullclamp anyway, and a clamped Mage can trade with a Juggertard, and you get 2 cards to make up for the Juggernaut being welded out.  

Mox Chrome and Mox Diamond are horrible in a deck already starved for resources.  The deck needs the mana, but can't throw away its rare colored cards, or lands for that matter.

Fastbond and Crop Rotation are absurd.  For a deck running 3 colors, first off, green is hardly a shoo-in candidate in and of itself.  Fastbond and Crop Rotation are mana-fixers in a deck that shoots itself in the foot mana-wise by running a third color in the first place.  There are a total of 6 green mana producers in the deck, if you count Black Lotus.  The odds of one of these cards coming down and being castable are close to nil, and their impact is regularly less than exemplary.  

The following early cards wreck this deck:

Gorilla Shaman
Trinisphere
Swords to Plowshares
Seal of Cleansing/Disenchant (on anything)
Meltdown
Null Rod
Tangle Wire
Platinum Angel
Goblin Welder
Energy Flux
Back to Basics
Oath of Druids
etc. etc. etc.

The deck has no answers.  None.

[rozetta]

Sensei's Divining Top is just a bad, bad Scroll Rack. Especially in a deck with only 4 shuffling effects.

Just off the top of my head as a one-of tutorable (via AI) dig spell that essentially replaces itself if needed (tap to draw on stack, spend 1 to look at top 3 means you draw one of the top 3 cards and put the top back in the top 3). Btw, there are a lot more than 4 shuffling effects if you really consider it (hint: think Survival of the Fittest)...

[FreshIsOuttaTurn]

Hey kiddies,

While I don't consider myself the best player out there (or anything near it) I think I can pick up many decks and become good relatively quickly... And wow... this deck is insane.  I have just been goldfishing hand after hand, not mulliganing except when i have to (no land, all land kinda thing) just to see how this thing works.  I think I killed by turn 4 no matter what kind of hand I started with.  This deck has a lot of raw potential and power I think, but it is probably a bit untuned right now.

I took the list posted at the top of this topic and just cut Fastbond for Candelabra and an AI because of how bad multiples are and started golfishing.  I haven't tested extensively, but I have really mixed feelings about this deck.

For one, AIs are either so good they make you cry with joy or just bad.  They tutor for clamp when you have small dudes and small dudes when you have clamp.  If you lack both then you get to sit there and spend UU to tutor up both clamp and a dude then pay at least 3 to draw 2 cards.  I am not sure about this but 3UU for 2 cards seems bad... The only time I have made them really broken is when I had a tutor and just chocked my graveyard full of broken artifact mana and then Will'd it all back and cast tendrils.  I think if we could somehow move the deck in that direction tendrils-i win direction it would be a lot more consistent.

My main problem is in the Ravagers I think.  I have found that they seem to slow this deck down more than speed it up.  I am probably wrong but here is what I see.  Anytime you have a Ravager that you can grow up to big#/big# by turn 1/2 so you can turn 2/3 beats, Walk or some combination, you probably could have used all that broken stuff to just cast Desire, Will, Spiral, whatever your b0rken spell of choice is.  I think that if AI slows the deck down a little Ravager can slow the deck down a lot more if you dont have disciple or Will + Tendrils (sac artifact mana, will, replay, tendrils, just so ya know what i mean).

I really think Tolarian Academy in this deck is just so obscene that it must easily be responsible for a large number of wins this deck will pull off.  I personally think deck needs even faster mana if its going to run through the field of hate.  I am not sure what exactly now, but stuff like Rituals and ESGs could make it much easier to abuse the Clamp faster and be able to go nuts, this is assumin you are using Tendrils for the win.

I hope I can get some feedback on these ideas because I lack the deckbuilding skills had by many of the people here.

Danke

[Rosholm]

I was missing things like double-clamping Ornithopters to draw 4 cards.

Yea, who can blame you? Thats a pretty tricky play to find.

[Whatever Works]

Gorilla Shaman
Trinisphere
Swords to Plowshares
Seal of Cleansing/Disenchant (on anything)
Meltdown
Null Rod
Tangle Wire
Platinum Angel
Goblin Welder
Energy Flux
Back to Basics
Oath of Druids
etc. etc. etc.

The deck has no answers. None.

I dont think you are getting the concept that the deck is supposed to win turn 1 or turn 2. The Artificers intuition version cant do that, but mine can outrace belcher, and most of the cards on the list.

the deck should win before the following cards are an issue/hit play:
Oath
Welder
Flux
B2B
Angel

Also factor in that almost all combo decks have an issue with or lose to the following cards:
Trinisphere
Null rod

Some of the cards you say "kill the deck" dont really have a huge either (or my version at least) them being:
Tangle Wire - In a storm based deck you hold your cards, and play all of them, and win the game... and there is no rule saying you cant clamp a tapped creature... this deck is resilent to tangle wire imo.
Goblin Welder - It takes a turn to use, and the card cant even hurt the deck because there is no reason to fill your graveyard with artifacts, and it they have 1 in play you shouldnt care because u will be winning the game, or you just make sure you dont clamp ornithopter unless you can cast tendrils.

Im not releasing my decklist yet (will when testing complete), but from testing i can say the following very safely... Culling of the weak is a terrible card... Songs of the damned is amazing, and cabal ritual is amazing... Finding a balance between the 2 of them in the deck can create huge mana early, and the deck often doesnt need skullclamp to combo out if played in a more Draw7'ish way.

Whats really nice with the deck is that if skullclamp stays in play 1 turn... you will win that turn over 90% of the time, and when you start to go off... you will go off... you never end up short on a tendrils or stall (especially if you run some of the key cards).

I can agree that Mike Longs build is awful, and rushed. He must of forgot it was type 1 when he said the deck can go off turn 3-4, because thats 2 turns to slow.

Kyle

[Morphling8]

Ok like always im not gonna read the entire thing. but this in regards to the first decklist. As u know mike long made this deck and it blows....this decks sucks. i playtested t1 ravager for a few weeks and found that some of the things like fastbond dont work.  Here is what i played
//NAME: Untitled Deck
        1 Burning Wish
        2 City of Brass
        2 Glimmervoid
        4 Vault of Whispers
        4 Seat of the Synod
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        2 Genesis Chamber
        1 Memory Jar
        1 Tinker
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Crop Rotation
        1 Darksteel Collosus
        1 Mystical Tutor
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Timetwister
   2 Myr Enforcer
        4 Frogmite
        4 Myr Servitor
        1 Mana Vault
        1 Mana Crypt
        4 Skullclamp
        1 Cunning Wish
        4 Thoughtcast
        1 Tolarian Academy
        1 Gemstone Mine
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Chrome Mox
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Jet
        2 Disciple of the Vault
        3 Arcbound Ravager

SB:
1 Balance
1 Mind Twist
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Regrowth
1 Time Spiral
3 annul
1 Shattering Pulse   
2 blue elemental blast
2 red elemental blast
1 mana leak (some counter)
 the only p9 i could get was twister the other 5 were proxy. ok also i would play 4 workshop 2... other then that this is the way 2 go in my opinion. Can kill by beat down or with clamp deck. tinker colossus is lame but honestly i beat suicide virus with it bost times...and u can triple timewalk in this deck so it pwns...anyway that my deck with 5 proxy...late

[policehq]

I tested a build like that and found Burning Wish to be too situational and slow. It's requirement is an off-color mana, and you don't usually have two of those in one turn, so you have one set-up turn and a card that requires Tolarian Academy to be useful.

Secondly Yawgmoth's Will is a problem when you're wanting to clamp creatures and kill an opponent with Disciple of the Vault. It lets you replay draw-7s and creatures, but it cuts off your two main engines.

I've tested this deck against several Stax players and while I'm not [at all] going to say that Trinisphere is not a problem, because of course it is against every deck, Stax' inconsistencies can allow you to combo out before they can get a lock on you. Secondly, Smokestack is obviously a problem once you have a Disciple of the Vault or two in play.

I've also played this deck against Null Rod and found it to be surprisingly resilient to that form of hate. Whether you go all-in with the Ravager, creating a fatty that the opponent can't deal with, or making the opponent lose life to Disciple of the Vault, you usually have an answer to it or can win around it with Ancient Tomb and Tolarian Academy.

There are two builds I've been testing: one with Somber Hoverguards and Chromatic Spheres and the other that is more combo-oriented. I haven't picked out a favorite yet because both have tested very well against different decks. I do like that multiple Somber Hoverguards can cause problems for a Fish player that is relying on Cloud of Faeries/Curiosity. Grim Lavamancer can be a problem, but Blue Elemental Blasts and Triskelion (fetched with Tinker) also cause problems for the Fish opponent. Sometimes, though, Somber Hoverguards are as conditional as Myr Enforcers since they require a blue mana and a lot of artifacts to be on the board (when you're usually clamping and saccing to ravager).

Anyway, here are the builds:

// Lands
    2  Ancient Tomb
    2  City of Brass
    2  Glimmervoid
    4  Seat of the Synod
    1  Tolarian Academy
    2  Vault of Whispers

// Creatures
    4  Arcbound Ravager
    1  Darksteel Colossus
    4  Disciple of the Vault
    4  Frogmite
    4  Myr Moonvessel

// Spells
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Crop Rotation
    1  Demonic Tutor
    3  Genesis Chamber
    1  Lion's Eye Diamond
    1  Lotus Petal
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Memory Jar
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    4  Skullclamp
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Thoughtcast
    1  Timetwister
    1  Tinker
    1  Wheel of Fortune
    1  Windfall

// Sideboard
SB: 4  Annul
SB: 2  Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1  Duplicant
SB: 1  Platinum Angel
SB: 3  Spawning Pit
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1  Triskelion

Spawning Pit is a questionable sideboard choice depending on how popular Oath becomes, but it is also an aid for you to combo out with Disciple and Skullclamp. The expensive artifact creatures are in the side against Platinum Angel (Duplicant), Goblin Welder/Fish/Grim Lavamancer/Disciple of the Vault (Triskelion), or combo (Platinum Angel), and they are to be played with Tinker or an abusive Tolarian Academy.

Here is the SomberAffinity build:

// Lands
    2  Ancient Tomb
    2  City of Brass
    2  Glimmervoid
    4  Seat of the Synod
    1  Tolarian Academy
    2  Vault of Whispers

// Creatures
    4  Arcbound Ravager
    4  Disciple of the Vault
    4  Myr Moonvessel
    4  Somber Hoverguard

// Spells
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Black Lotus
    4  Chromatic Sphere
    1  Crop Rotation
    3  Genesis Chamber
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Memory Jar
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    4  Skullclamp
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Thoughtcast
    1  Timetwister
    1  Tinker
    1  Wheel of Fortune
    1  Windfall

// Sideboard
SB: 4  Annul
SB: 2  Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1  Duplicant
SB: 1  Platinum Angel
SB: 3  Spawning Pit
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1  Triskelion

For reference, it is -4 Frogmite, -1 Darksteel Colossus, -1 Lotus Petal, -1 Lion's Eye Diamond, and -1 Demonic Tutor for +4 Somber Hoverguard, +4 Chromatic Sphere.

I have the same problem with Demonic Tutor and Lion's Eye Diamond as I do with Burning Wish: they are very situational cards that usually require other cards to set them up to be effective. I dropped the Darksteel Colossus because usually you want to fetch Memory Jar and win that turn anyway instead of winning two turns later.

I prefer Myr Moonvessel over Myr Servitor because when you clamp it, you can keep comboing off, and it doesn't require lucky draws or Artificer's Intuition to be effective. Secondly, Timetwister actually helps with moonvessel, whereas it would hurt your next turn with Servitor.

I think eventually I will keep the Frogmites but drop the other four cards for Chromatic Sphere because it is a very powerful card in this deck. Ancient Tombs really help it shine here.

I completely agree that Draw-7s are the way to go over Artificer's Intuition (a really horrible card), and perhaps this is the wrong thread to post these decks, but all the same, here it is.

Barry

[Morphling8]

yawg will is required...it wins games by itself...every game i played against suicide virus ravager was decided by the yawg will cast at some point..whether it was for me to triple timewalk to kill wit collosus is different though. burning wish is slow i will give u that and nto always good..if i was playing in a fully powered tourny i probably would not play this deck let alone the wish...but killing them with tendrils is easy and funny as hell...

[policehq]

yawg will is required...it wins games by itself...every game i played against suicide virus ravager was decided by the yawg will cast at some point..whether it was for me to triple timewalk to kill wit collosus is different though. burning wish is slow i will give u that and nto always good..if i was playing in a fully powered tourny i probably would not play this deck let alone the wish...but killing them with tendrils is easy and funny as hell...

Is Suicide Virus really the issue when you are playing? It doesn't really seem worth the slot to help you win games you probably won't play. I don't even play Time Walk in my build because usually attack phases are completely irrelevant. My advice for you is to drop the Myr Enforcers for Disciples and Yawgmoth's Will for another Arcbound Ravager, where you're practically playing Tendrils without the RBB3 (+ enough spells to make the kill) casting cost. There are plenty of other suggestions I could make for your deck, but to save time I'll just tell you to play what I have; it's better.

Barry

EDIT: And please, please work on your English. Normally I wouldn't flame you in such an open manner, but things like "whether it was for me to triple timewalk to kill wit collosus is different though" just don't make sense.

[Morphling8]

ok idc about my english so if u do have fun flaming me...anyway ur deck looks interesting and good but u also need to take into account the fact that i wasn't playing the build how i want 2 and also the fact that i wasn't taking the tournament seriously. also i dont think more then 2 disciple is nescary since when u go off and draw like crazy most of the time 1 disciple is all u need 2 kill and by the time ur ready 2 kill i really doubt that u have not drawn it. but i guess if u r playing in a more controlling environment it would get countered so it has its ups..anyway my metagame is all newb aggro and 5 good control ...so i really only needed the 2...gl wit ur build..late

[FreshIsOuttaTurn]

I am gonna try to get this a bit back on topic after some poor flaming and bad spelling.

@Morphling8

Yawg's Win is insane, probably the most singly powerful spell ever.  However, some decks dont abuse it like others can.  In this deck most everyone has noticed how when you cast the Win you immediately lose use of your disciples and clamps, which are both key to the decks strategy.  So the simple answer, free up the space.

@ Everyone else

I think we should look at either turning Affinity of any kind into an aggro possibly workshop beating machine that can just outrace other decks or turn it into a strict combo deck.  The only places it shoudl be in between are Disciples and Ravagers seeing as they can just do that beatz thang randomly even in combo.

So with that said... Why not turn the deck into a Draw7ish type deck?  You can play all your standard artifact lands and acceleration, but for creatures have Disciples, Ravagers, Moonvessels, and maybe Frogmite or the like.  Everything needs to be cheap/free.  Throw in a healthy dash of the aforementioned draw7s (maybe returns, maybe not) and a nice tendrils or two.  Its really nice how with Disciple you can just combo out FOR a Ravager to win or vice versa instead of Tendrils as necessary.

The way I see it, the most effective hate in the format (3Sphere, Wastes) are a problem to every single combo deck out there.  Just because this one runs more artifacts doesnt immediately make it anymore vulnerable.  Null Rod is almost nonexistant seeing as Fish is overripe/dead (for now).  Energy Flux? If Canali can do it in Extended with a much less powerful card base, I think we could pull it here with the b0rken factor of Storm and Draw7s.  B2B? *Shrugs* i dont think that will matter as much as it seems because Ravager and Disciple are cheap and Froggie is free.  Angels? No dont get how that should ever happen.  Oath?  If they play Oath and you have a disciple and/or Ravager I cant seem to find a problem.  You dont need to attack to kill anyways.

Why does Affinity rule T2 and Extended?  1 for 1 hate isnt good enough.  Raffinity is the defining tempo deck in 2 formats, I dont think any single cards like Swords or Seal of Cleansing are worth even worrying about.  Just kill them dead some other way.  

So if anyone wants to experiment and PM me with some results, Ill share my own with you.  Dont bother if you are tryin to play a budget version or lack the playskill required for combo.

[Whatever Works]

Would any1 like to explain to me why diciple is better then tendrils in any possible way... if you run tendrils you can run dark ritual... and getting the mana is fairly easy... and tendrils only loses to stifle... disciple loses to everything, and usually doesnt win the same turn... it also seems like a win more card because if you can sack enough artifacts with 1 or even 2 in play then you should have won the game already (or could with tendrils).

[Morphling8]

Disciple is better for alot of reason. 1 B, 1 total cost instead of 4, and the fact that tendrils requires alot of spells and to do this skullclamp and acdemy most likely will be in play while disciple really only requires ravager. At least that is what i think.  Also putting in dark ritual for just tendrils dont work to well.

[rozetta]

I have done extensive testing this week with the Long build versus Fish (and a lot of other Affinity variations). It comes down to one simple thing - about 90% of the time, when Fish casts a Null Rod, it wins. I'd go to the point of saying that Fish doesn't need to FoW anything in this deck if they know they have a Null Rod coming. The only land they need Waste is Academy. If they don't cast the Null Rod, they lose very often, almost as often as you lose if they get the Null Rod.

Consider going second in a game versus Fish. They drop any land, pass the turn. You play out something and pass the turn. They drop a land and cast Null Rod. That's it. You had your first turn only to get enough board position to win the match. After that, you have the opportunity to topdeck about 5 cards (non-artifact lands) to try and get out of that situation. Now consider that they have 5 strips and a lot of card draw (compared to what you have with a Null Rod in play). If you had a Ravager in play, you can eat all artifacts in response to the Null Rod and try to win before they draw their Oxidize/Echoing Truth. Every turn, they'll chump or ice the Ravager until they can race you or deal with it. Frogmites do not help, since they can take care of them with Grim Lavamancer. Myr Enforcers are still not a solution, since they're not likely to be dropped first turn barring some kind of god hand, and later game, fish can deal with them with River Boa, Grim Lavamancer, etc.

I'm stubborn, and I'm still working on it, but it seems obvious that decks running artifact lands need to either be able to consistently deal with Null Rod (which not only weakens the deck, but is difficult versus FoW) or create a decent enough board position early game to effectively ignore it (is this even possible?). The only builds I've tried with an ounce of hope against the Null Rod scenario are builds running Arcbound Crusher and Workshops. Even then, it's not rosy.

All this and I know that the prospect of a turn 1 Trinisphere is potentially worse than Null Rod for this deck (at least without Workshops).

As for the combo Affinity builds, they're interesting looking enough, but you have no way to stop real combo. Unless the combo build can effectively win on turn 2 as much as other combo, running things like draw7s will only help them win quicker. From some preliminary goldfishing, these decks didn't look like they'd win consistently on turn 2 (but then neither does Long's new deck).

I just wish I've missed something really obvious or someone has found some new and interesting tech. Auto losing game 1 versus Fish, Workshop, Combo and, I suspect, Oath does not sound like a good starting point.

Thoughts or suggestions?

[Morphling8]

The match against oath is just terrible. You can easily be outraced in the first games and when they side in platinum angel it is just annoying. Another thing is that null rod is annoying but not good game as an energy flux is. The flux basically takes ur board by half every turn at best and normally u lose about 3/4. This card has been seeing sb and is totally impossible to deal with. Siding in annul may weaken this deck but it is really the only way to deal with it so i would have to say if you know they have energy or rod annul is nice but also naturalize or disenchant. Just though i would share that about oath since you get owned.

[policehq]

I can't believe anybody is having problems with Oath; it's really an easy deck to beat. Drop the Burning Wish sorcery crap from your sideboard and add Spawning Pit. On top of that, sac all your creatures to Ravager and/or Skullclamp, and they'll never get a creature on the board. I haven't lost a single match to Oath in testing on MWS.

Null Rod also really isn't a game-losing problem, especially against fish. You will probably win game 1 due to sheer speed (if you're playing my deck, especially with Somber Hoverguards), and games 2 and 3 are in your favor because of the 3 Annul.

Barry

[Morphling8]

That is true if you dont play a creature and you have spawning pit they really can not win. But that means you really cant play anything until you have the win in your hand. But the thing is alot of oath is playing energy flux side. So if you sit there and do not attempt to outrace them they will find the flux and you will lose once it hits the board.

[policehq]

That is true if you dont play a creature and you have spawning pit they really can not win. But that means you really cant play anything until you have the win in your hand. But the thing is alot of oath is playing energy flux side. So if you sit there and do not attempt to outrace them they will find the flux and you will lose once it hits the board.

If you have Skullclamp and Spawning Pit on the board, you combo out every turn, and you get to attack with your creatures if you remove the charge counters at their end of turn phase. You should be able to win before Energy Flux becomes a problem.

Barry

[Morphling8]

Alright thats true. So i guess it comes down to whether or not they are "top decking fiends". I guess the version you play is different then most of the netdecked ones. Just when i played against oath it went first turn oath with orchard followed by timewalk a bit later. Then game 2 went something like lotus land flux.

[policehq]

Would any1 like to explain to me why diciple is better then tendrils in any possible way... if you run tendrils you can run dark ritual... and getting the mana is fairly easy... and tendrils only loses to stifle... disciple loses to everything, and usually doesnt win the same turn... it also seems like a win more card because if you can sack enough artifacts with 1 or even 2 in play then you should have won the game already (or could with tendrils).

The advantage here is that you have aggro/combo instead of just combo, and both natures of the deck actually support each other (the synnergy between Skullclamp/Disciple of the Vault/Arcbound Ravager). Whenever the opponent has any blockers, an Arcbound Ravager is simply not enough to win the game, so Disciple of the Vault isn't much of a "win-more" card. He's very important to winning the game. Though he is vulnerable to almost all removal played in Vintage, he can still cause some life-loss before he dies at instant speed, and you have plenty of back-up plans/draw spells to get another one on the board or win without him.

Alright thats true. So i guess it comes down to whether or not they are "top decking fiends". I guess the version you play is different then most of the netdecked ones. Just when i played against oath it went first turn oath with orchard followed by timewalk a bit later. Then game 2 went something like lotus land flux.

Energy Flux is the reason I play Somber Hoverguards over Frogmites; you can still beat down with them, and two will take out a Spirit of the Night and/or Akroma. I'm still not sure if they are the optimal card choice, but usually when I play them against any deck, I'm happy with the results.

First turn Energy Flux is just bad luck for you, but I will say that adding 2 Ancient Tombs might help keep key artifacts in play long enough to combo out, and if you're dropping a ton of artifacts in play and have a Disciple of the Vault, Energy Flux is not a very attractive method of removal.

Barry

[Negator13]

Akroma and SotN have First Strike so they can take on 4 Hoverguards each and live to tell about it.

[policehq]

Akroma and SotN have First Strike so they can take on 4 Hoverguards each and live to tell about it.

Ok yes, that comment was posted with little thought because Oath has never presented itself as a problem to my decks. I was just kind of adding that as icing on the cake (the cake being the fact that you have the tools to out-race Oath anyway).

Barry

[Morphling8]

Just got back from a type 1 tournament. I played against a similar deck tonight to the ravager with 4 color control. Lost preside then brought in 1 damping matrix, 3 energy flux, 1 rack and ruin, 1 disenchant and sided out 4 skeletal scrying 2 cunning wish. Smashed game one with the game ending flux followed by angel. Game 3 facted in to double flux. He for some reason gave me 2 flux..not sure why First one got naturalized and the 2nd one the naturlize was countered. Anyway i think i won on account of his stupidity. I do not remember what he gave me the double flux instead of but i believe it was something like disenchant timewalk and land. Well just thought i would bring this up since it pertains to this deck. I believe that ravager should have a better match up here because once clamp resolves to many threats will be drawn.

[Whatever Works]

Energy Flux has never been that big of an issue for me, but then again i run REB's, etc...

Oath isnt that bad of a matchup... If you add basics to your decklists you can easily make room for bloodmoon, and that can single handedly destroy oath... but then again so does most removal...

If you cant out race Oath then its probably better to start over, and take the decklist in a new direction, because even a strong hand for oath wont win before turn 3, and usually not till turn 4-5 in normal cases.

[policehq]

Annul also works nicely against Energy Flux. I still might change sideboard BEBs to REBs, though, even though red is a hard source to come by in my deck.

Barry

[Sytupal]

This may have already been brought up or it may not even be usable considering the mana base, however in Fifth Dawn there's an interesting card that deserves consideration:


Steelshaper's Gift
W
Sorcery
Search your library for an Equipment card, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

Even if it's run as a 3 or 2 of, it effectively gives you 6 skullclamps.  If the mana base could be altered well enough to allow this card, and with all of the first turn acceleration, i can see skullclamp as being a constant first or second turn drop.



This Thread might be close to being done with, but maybe we can spark up another conversation with this card.

[Charlie]

A few suggestions:
Ancient Tomb would be amazing, allowing first turn clamps, though no room for a deck with 5 colors plus that
Goblin Welder... clamp fodder that help you stand against hate
Auriok Steelshaper... a clamp fodder that also combos out

[Morphling8]

Ive seen a steelshaper build before. It is awesome when it started going off cuz it didn't need academy anymore. But without clamp steelshaper is a dead draw. Not worth playing but cool when ur playing more for laughs then tourny wins

[martyr]

Well, the advantage to using Steelshaper is that you're forcing your mana base to be able to handle Steelshaper's gift, which gives you 8 Skullclamps. Good luck getting a dead draw due to not having access to Skullclamp with that.