Skullclamp in FCG?

[JamesPr]

Skullclamp in FCG?

FCG is a very tight deck, but I believe some cards aren’t pulling their weight as well as others.  One of which are Goblin Matrons.  Goblin Matron, is just a horrible goblin although a pseudo demonic tutor often times you do not have enough mana to make it worthwhile to get anything big with it like a Ringleader with all the wastelands running around.  Most FCG decks play three Skirk Prospectors, some even play four.  This creature’s ability is just redundant, and doesn’t pull It’s weight as well as a Skullclamp would.

So
-2 Goblin Matrons
-1 Skirk Prospector
+3 Skullclamp

This would make the deck’s combo much easier to get, and make your opponent think twice about killing almost every creature you play.  It is as much a deterrent as it is a card drawing machine.  This makes the deck more vulnerable to Null Rod, but as many people have noted Null Rod just isn’t that good anymore.  

Decklist

2x Skirk Prospector
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Recruiter
4x Goblin Ringleader
3x Goblin Warchief
2x Siege Gang Commander
2x Goblin Sharpshooter
2x Gempalm Incinerator

4x Food Chain
3x Skullclamp

1x Chrome Mox
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mana Crypt (This card’s killed me so many times)
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Taiga
6x Mountain

I’m thinking, I may need additional testing but it seems like with Skullclamp I can get by on less land.  I’m thinking of increasing the number of Skullclamps to four.

[Outlaw]

You have to understand something, when you have foodchain on the table, the Goblin Matron becomes a godly utility for creating precious mana.  

(Food chains on table)
Play Goblin Matron, search for Goblin Matron
Remove Matron from play for RRRR
Play Goblin Matron, search for X (where X is all those sweet goblins you run)
Remove Matron for RRRR (RRRRR total)

Matrons are essential in atempting to combo out, and if your atempting to put in Skullclamps I would suggest taking food chain and its combo pieces and run Mono-R Goblins.

[JamesPr]

So basically you're saying Matron is a win more card, because you don't draw Food Chain every game when plenty of other creatures give as much or more mana?  Goblin Matron sucks without Food Chain,  besides even if Matron gives RRRR you have plenty of other creatures that give that much mana so Matron isn't even that required.  In fact, when you have Food Chain, with Recruiter out you almost never get a Matron in the stack.  The only downside to running Food Chain with Skullclamp, is that a Food Chained creature cannot be Skullclamped for cards.

I'd like to emphasize Food Chains Goblins has 0 card draw except cycling, so you draw Food Chains a chance of 1 out of 15 cards.  

Still I can see how Matron can be beneficial in that you can Matron for a Ringleader or Recruiter with a Food Chains in play and combo out this turn or next.  Still Matron just relies on Food Chains too much to be as beneficial as Skullclamp could be in this deck.

[Arkeld]

The clamp has no place in FCG and I'll tell you why:

FCG isn't a pure combo deck. In fact, it's more like 65% aggro and 35% combo. As a result, the gobbos that are on the table are used to swing with and put the opponent on a tight clock. My build goldfishes turn 3-4 (bad draws turn 5) with or without the combo. So we want to drop dudes fast and the mana-intensive clamp slows us down.

For instance, if you spend two mana on turn 2 to cast the clamp and apply it to, say a prospector, for two cards, what have you achieved? Nothing at all. You have no card advantage (gobbo + clamp = 2 cards for the 2 you draw) and you've spent two mana and a turn. It's easy to see how that goes against the aggro nature of the deck.

Now, you might say that you can clamp piledrivers and warchiefs but I'm not keen on putting those dudes in Fire/Ice Range. Imagine you have a lackey and a piledriver so you clamp the piledriver. On your attack, your opponent fires both of them. Again, you have little card advantage (lose two, draw 2 + the fire/ice) but you lose tons of tempo.

Long story short: Yes, the clamp makes it more likely that we draw into the combo but at the cost of weakening the aggro aspect. Not a good deal if you ask me. There is enough draw in the form of Ringleaders imho.

If you really want to find Food Chain faster I'd suggest you run 4 Plateaus and perhaps a CoB or two and add in Enlightened Tutor. But that's still not a good idea since it messes up an otherwise pretty stable manabase and I can't think of any gobbos I'd remove. It would, however, open more sideboard choices.

(The clamp worked well in Bidding because the deck got all it's clamped dudes back in the end. It works in raffinity because that deck can drop dudes for free. It won't work in FCG)

[Sanity_XIV]

Matron isn't a win more card because it can tutor you up the Recruiter/Ringleader you need to start the combo.

[MrZuccinniHead]

Skullclamp is a win more card.  There's no point to it in a deck that can draw a lot anyway.

[Stupid_Newb]

Simple math proves that Skullclamp doesn't belong - the deck's draw engine (Goblin Ringleader) draws you four cards, if your deck is properly stacked. Skullclamp requires 1 mana to activate each time. You would need to activate it twice to equal the number of cards drawn with Ringleader, thus costing three colorless + two X/1 creatures, excluding the X/1 creature's casting cost. And that's also to set aside the fact that Ringleader can be eaten by your Food Chain for 5R, enough to cast any creature in the deck.

Oh yeah, and you shouldn't be running Goblin Matron anyway.

[Arkeld]

Oh yeah, and you shouldn't be running Goblin Matron anyway.

I'm running two matrons and they do come in handy. What do you sugges we replace them with?

[DEA]

matrons are recruiters and ringleaders 5 and 6
with food chain in play they fetch the missing combo link AND give you the mana you need to cast them
clamp doesn't really work well in fcg
you want your goblins alive
killing off your goblins to draw cards is like rfging your piledrivers to cast prospectors

[JamesPr]

This deck get's mana screwed a lot, and yes I use the deck in the primer.  This deck just has trouble competing against anything blue with draw and wasteland.  Skullclamp is a great way to counteract these threats by making your opponent scared to remove your threats.  If he does, you draw into extra land as this deck is a mana hungry deck.

As for the Fire/Ice argument that isn't an argument at all because your Piledrivers and Warchiefs die to fire anyway.

Matrons suck I'm not going to use them, it's horribly inefficient to spend seven mana to put a 1/1 and a hasted 2/2 into play during the course of two turns.

As for Food Chain being in play, it isn't always in play against blue it will be countered that's why It's sideboarded out.

There's a good reason clamp was played in every type2 weenie deck there was before it was banned.  It's just good.  It turn's your creature threats into mini ancestrals.

[TheStu]

As for the Fire/Ice argument that isn't an argument at all because your Piledrivers and Warchiefs die to fire anyway.

Last I heard, in reality, losing a piledriver/warchief < losing a piledriver + a warchief. That's simple goblin math for you.

As for Food Chain being in play, it isn't always in play against blue it will be countered that's why It's sideboarded out.

And you precious clamp isn't asking for it either?

[JamesPr]

As for the Fire/Ice argument that isn't an argument at all because your Piledrivers and Warchiefs die to fire anyway.

Last I heard, in reality, losing a piledriver/warchief < losing a piledriver + a warchief. That's simple goblin math for you.

As for Food Chain being in play, it isn't always in play against blue it will be countered that's why It's sideboarded out.

And you precious clamp isn't asking for it either?

Piledriver is a 1/2, Warchief is a 2/2.  Unless you have two Skullclamps in play you won't lose both to fire.  Clamp is a 1 colorless costing card, if it get's countered you spent 1 mana to play it your opponent spent 2 mana or possibly two cards.  Clamp is what made aggro beat control in type2.

Skullclamp belongs in FCG, as well as any aggro deck with a lot of 1/1s.  It's too powerful to ignore.

[An_American_Heart]

i have heard very little good arguments for OR against skullclamp yet.  So i guess i will have to give this my try.


FCG is a VERY tight build.   it has no room for clamps.  You cannot sacrafice the clamped goblins to the chain, so the only goblins that would benifit with this would be the /1 goblins.   If you look at the list, every single goblin serves it's purpose.  In playing FCG, skirk prospector has allowed me to 'mini-combo', winning almost as much times as food chains.  i have lost several games where the prospecter gets killed.  So that's one you just shouldn't clamp.   Lackey?  of course you shouldn't clamp that guy unless they have a blocker that they can afford to lose or that's --/2 (+) in toughness.  Matron, okay, you can clamp matron after she's in play, but the fact of the matter is you took her out of your list to add the clamp.  recruiter.  that's  one you can clamp.   that makes one worthwhile goblin you can clamp.  you can clamp a fanatic if you do so desire, but it's a better utility to do damage.  sharpshooter, i've killed with him several dozen times too.  Another bad idea.  That makes 2 total.


matron is the BOMB in food chains.  The thing people have been saying is that food chains combos and that clamp makes it easier.  you people are the ones who probobly go 0-2 drop because you have an amazing aggro beatdown going but you rely to heavily on the actual combo.  

Normally in a good metagame, or even a subpar ones like the milwaukee/Eau Claire metas you will be sideboarding out food chains for more practical things after game 1.  

the great thing about food chain is it's AGGROCOMBO.  the problem with some of the people i've seen playing food chain is that they play it COMBOAGGRO.   that means they play combo before playing aggro.  That's the downfall of Food chain goblins.

Clamp is pointless in FCG.  enough said.

[Arkeld]

Piledriver is a 1/2, Warchief is a 2/2.  Unless you have two Skullclamps in play you won't lose both to fire.

Imagine you have a lackey and a piledriver so you clamp the piledriver. On your attack, your opponent fires both of them.

Note also that the clamp doesn't help vs the next most common removal, STP.

[JamesPr]

I'm not going to argue, I like skullclamp in FCG because of the card advantage if your opponent kills any of your stuff excluding him using a STP.  Other's may feel differently I'm leaving this argument at a rest.

[Joblin Velder]

Clamp is what made aggro beat control in type2.

I thought it was the Affinity mechanic. My bad.

[andrewpate]

Not to mention the fact that Goblins didn't even run Clamp at the very end, and it still did fine.  

Food Chain is just Gobvantage with a possible combo kill.  Even if Enlightened Tutor were red or green I doubt I'd run it; I'm just as happy to Recruiter for Ringleader+4xPiledriver as I am to go off, since either way you win.  In all my testing--and I have a lot of xp with this deck--I have only said, "Man, I wish I could just draw a few more cards, and I'd probably win!" a handful of times.  I don't run Clamp for the same reason I don't run Glimpse of Nature:  they are superfluous.

[Vegeta2711]

I'm not going to argue, I like skullclamp in FCG because of the card advantage if your opponent kills any of your stuff excluding him using a STP. Other's may feel differently I'm leaving this argument at a rest.

So you ended up starting this thread for absolutely 0 reason then. Good job, why not simply THINK before making one of these. -_-