StarCityGames - VA

[Azhrei]

Please. The object of entering a tournament is to walk away with the prizes. If Meandeck decides to scoop to each other in the semi-finals, then that's their business. If you want to play Oath mirrors, do it someplace with a TIME LIMIT.

[Hi-Val]

In Josh's words: "We have a hundred beers and seventy burgers"

Jason: "I already T8ed, I just want to get drunk now"

Oath mirrors are as slow as old people fucking, ESPECIALLY when you have the same exact deck, ESPECIALLY when you have the exact same sideboard. Everyone wanted to avoid the two hours it would take to play out the oath mirrors, so we passed go and collected $200.

Are you pansies gonna bitch every time someone concedes in the finals to split the prize? Are you that insecure about your magic skills that you want to degrade other people's success? Unless you've complained about a prize split in the finals in EVERY SINGLE TOURNAMENT that's been discussed here, you're reeking of the H-word.

[Saucemaster]

In Josh's words: "We have a hundred beers and seventy burgers"

Two hundred beers.  Jason wanted to get double-plus drunk.

[Jacob Orlove]

Unless you've complained about a prize split in the finals in EVERY SINGLE TOURNAMENT that's been discussed here, you're reeking of the H-word.

Actually, they have complained pretty much every single time.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Alright it's time to cut the fucking bullshit, splits happen all the time and its not really as big of an issue that people make it out to be. I think im also contributing to the hype of THAT topic, so this is the last peep you wll hear out of me.

ON A COMPLETE DIFFERENT NOTE

CONGRATS JACOB ORLOVE!!!! !!!WOOOT!!!111!

(Now from that tourney if you couldn't find a ride home, lotus= airline flight first class!)

[ELD]

Winning tournaments is all about.... winning tournaments.  You do whatever it takes.  There is strategy in tournaments that goes beyond the scope of flopping cards.  Anyone who says otherwise is nieve.  Is it fair that teams have an edge over everyone else?  No, no it's not.  The only way to combat it is to get a team of your own.  

Tournament play is differant in most games and sports.  It's a very differant thing to play in a poker tournament than a ring game.  In fact, very few people are of equal skill in both.  One needs to adjust the value of many differant plays.  A solid tournament player will not risk their tournament life on a play in which they have only a slight edge.  Of course, a slight edge is all you need in a regular game.  

This applies to magic as well.  IDing and scooping within teams are part of the strategy of winning tournaments.  Sure, you'd play the games out if you were there for fun.  But if you're at a tournament you should be there to win as much prizes as possible.  I'll save the argument by defining "prize" as monetary and or the "fame" that goes with winning a tournament.

[BlkXplsn]

I didn't say anything about prize splitting. I regularly prize split. I said I was disappointed in the amount of scooping done. I would have liked to see who won these matches.

Stop puting your fucking words in my mouth.

[Smmenen]

I would have liked to see who won these matches.

.

Really? You really care?  does it make that much of a difference to you?

[BlkXplsn]

It doesn't make that much of a difference to me... I haven't met anyone in the t8 except for you, Steve. I was simply curious who would beat the other.

[Hi-Val]

For your reference, here are the matches if they were played out:

Oath beat Oath.

Oath beat Oath.

[Triple_S]

The Oath mirror in every format its every been played in is the most boring spectacle ever.  They saved us years by scooping, and it was greatly appreciated as there was mad t4age to be played.

[JACO]

Who gives a damn who conceded to who? Odds are that YOU probably didn't win shit, and MeanDeck obviously dominated the tournament (at least as far as I'm concerned). A good team's goal is to take home as much of the prize pie as possible, and MeanDeck took a pretty big chunk of it, so don't front.

Also, props to MeanDeck for smashing ShortBus on their home turf, by the way; ). It looks as though the Smmenen/Cron ticket is really starting to pick up steam before these elections...

EDIT: In case you haven't seen the links everywhere else yet, here they are:
Top 8 Decklists (link to SCG)
Kowal's Top 8 Coverage (link to SCG)

[Purple Hat]

wait, I'm all for blowing off the oath mirror in the top eight, but if I read a previous post correctly that's not the only time that happened.
 

In the swiss, Kevin Cron (my main man) and Jacob were in the X-0-2 bracket and they played. Jacob had slightly better tiebreakers so Kevin scooped to him.

Then in Round 7 Aaron LeKarz scooped to him despite them going to time

so jacob played in a 5 round swiss and everyone else played 7?  that seems like a flawed system.

nothing against jacob, he's a great guy and a really good player but it's hard to convince others to take our format seriously where one of our major tournaments is decided based on the fact that one team made up 10% of the field and basically rigged the swiss for whatever reason.  

Obviously no one violated any DCI rules or anything like that but giving anyone Two free wins definately has a hugely distortional effect on the swiss.

Hale

[rvs]

Obviously no one violated any DCI rules or anything like that but giving anyone Two free wins definately has a hugely distortional effect on the swiss.

This was non-sanctioned however, so the rules might not be the same.

[Purple Hat]

my point was that I didn't think anyone violated the rules, but anyway I know of for determining the outcome of a tournament giving someone 2 free wins in the qualifying rounds is hugely distortional.

[Saucemaster]

nothing against jacob, he's a great guy and a really good player but it's hard to convince others to take our format seriously where one of our major tournaments is decided based on the fact that one team made up 10% of the field and basically rigged the swiss for whatever reason.

Wait, that doesn't make sense to me.  So Jacob and Kevin, who are teammates, were going to have to play.  They were paired up.  One of them was GOING to be eliminated, especially since Kevin wasn't going to let a match go to time for the third time that day (love ya, Kevin!).  One of them WILL win and one WILL lose.  And lo and behold, by Kevin conceding, one won and the other lost.  Except they didn't have to suffer the arduous coinflip that is an EXACT MIRROR.

Aaron isn't even on the team, so he wasn't rigging anything.  In fact, Jacob had him beat, but time was called too early for him to get in the last 3 points of damage.  If one of them didn't scoop, NEITHER of them would make T8.  Aaron, who, again, isn't on the team, decided to do something very, very classy and scoop.  Because Jacob had a winning gamestate but no time to actually finish it.  It was a class act by Aaron, but I would argue that Jacob still won that match fair and square.

[Purple Hat]

I just think it's kinda BS that this whole tournament was won by someone who recieved two byes in the swiss.

Jacob faced 10 opponents and beat 5, drew with 2 and got three concessions.  If you're comfortable with a high profile event like SCG basically being decided by how many people someone knows then that's ok, but I think it makes the whole format look bad.  I might have been fine with 1 concession like aarons's but we have to draw the line somewhere or you start to gain a ridiculous advantage by knowing enough people.  How do you explain to the kids who were 5-1-1 or the other 5-0-2's or whatever that Jacob is more deserving because he knows more people?

[Hi-Val]

What's the purpose of the intentional draw or concession then? If you don't like the system, bring friends with you if you think that's what'll make you win.

[kirdape3]

Stop being bitter and accept our glory.

[Toad]

I think it makes the whole format look bad.

This is what happens in every single tournament. Even to the Pro Tour.

Teams always do that. Ask YMG, for example. It's their tournament policy too. A draw is bad for both players unless it is an intentional draw. So we decided to have this agreement because the purpose of MeanDeck is to WIN tournaments.

[Triple_S]

Team Shortbus had 6 members paid up against each other in round 6.  In each match we either had an ID (if possible) or had to play it out since it would eliminate on person and the tie breakers were close enough it didn't matter.  While the concept of scooping to a teammate might seem foreign to someone who isn't on a team, it is a commonly accepted practice at every level of play.

For instance, at GP:NJ, Chris McDaniel scooped in the last round to Brian Kibler thereby insuring Kibler in the top 8 and Chris securing the top amatuer prize and a spot at PT:Colombus.  Brian had provided Chris a deck so it was the right thing to do.  The same type of strategy applies to type 1 also.  Its time people woke up and realized that this format is exactly like every other tournament format out there.  Stop living in 1997.