Yare
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Playing to win
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« on: November 02, 2004, 04:45:51 pm » |
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Before I even begin, please let me first explain the meaning of "semi-serious." My roommate and I decided, just because we could, that we were going to build a mono-red deck for the metagame that is our dorm room. So we threw a few decklists together, bounced some ideas off each other and came up with a few things. I will be the first to admit that things seem to be stacked against mono-red and sligh builds. That's really why this is semi-serious; we're seriously trying to build a good red deck, but don't expect to get anything amazing or format breaking. Additionally, the existence of FCG would suggest that this deck doesn’t do as well what FCG goblins does; that’s fine, this is just an experiment. So mods, if nothing else, this could be a good deckbuilding exercise for less experienced players (and, at your discretion, could be moved to the newbie forum). Therefore, I ask for your serious consideration, even if just consists of "sorry, I really just don't think this deck can be competitive or just isn’t as good as Food Chain Goblins." Thanks.
If I’m not mistaken, there are really only three choices with regard to monored builds: pure burn (some sort of Burning Bridge build possibly), Ankh Sligh, and Goblins. We initially jumped at Goblins simply because it would be the “most fun to play� or if nothing else, simple to build. In terms of this analysis that follows, I’m pretty much not going to consider pure burn as a viable strategy, but if there is constructive support for such a build, I would be more than happy to see/read it.
The primary problem with monored right now (as it has been for as long as I can remember) is that it gets hosed fairly easily. In the current metagame, that probably is done best by Chalice of the Void. Because monored tends to run on such small mana curve, a Chalice for 1 or 2 can often be game. Additionally, Pyroclasm is obviously very bad for this kind of deck. Therefore, a deck must be able to deal with these potential pitfalls.
So, here is some exhaustive card analysis:
Creatures[/i][/b]
Goblin Lackey – This seemed like the logical place to start. This is pretty much an auto-inclusion for any deck running goblins as its primary damage source. While lackey is good because he provides free uncounterable spells by himself, he also has the added benefit of getting around Trinisphere and Chalice of the Void, cards that often are game for red decks (admittedly, Lackey must come down before Chalice). I could go on, but I think Lackey’s inclusion is obvious.
Goblin Piledriver – Again, for any deck with goblins as its workhorse, Piledriver is an obvious choice. While the pro-blue ability isn’t overly useful in the current metagame, it does mean that Morphling and Iridescent Angel will not be able to block him, which could matter every once in a while. He also can’t be bounced by things like Echoing Truth or Waterfront Bouncer, which I expect to show up in some fish builds in the future (the merits of those two “new answers� is debatable, but it’s a consideration).
Mogg Fanatic – From here, I believe that the builds can vary. I’ve always liked Mogg Fanatic due to his doubling as a creature and burn. He doesn’t suffer from an inability to ping things like most other creatures do. He has the obvious benefit of being a goblin (for Lackey, Piledriver, and Warchief). Additionally, he can get rid of Goblin Welder by himself. Finally, he can deal two damage to a big blocker. When this is coupled with Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, or something else, he can potentially take something big down (or just ping your opponent after getting blocked). Personally, I think the fact that he can ping Welder is more than enough reason to run him, but he has other benefits as well.
Gempalm Incinerator – This card has come into existence since I’ve tried building a goblin deck, so I was very intrigued by him. I must say that I am very impressed by Incinerator. He gets into play with Lackey for free and benefits from both of Warchief’s abilities. More importantly, however, he can also be cycled and deal damage in the process. Unfortunately, it can only deal damage to creatures, but don’t let this limitation bother you. With a few goblins on the table, it becomes uncounterable removal with the added benefit netting a card. The reason that really makes me jump at it, though, it has the interesting ability to always kill goblin welder when cycled (because Welder is a goblin and has a 1 on the butt) and it can’t be countered (sans Stifle). Initially we were running three copies, but jumped to four. However, I think this is probably too many, in that sometimes you can get stuck at two mana and not have any way to play Incinerator (although, I suppose he could be cycled away if nothing else).
Goblin Warchief – A card that I was skeptical at first about, but eventually decided it was at least worth trying. Honestly, I haven’t really tested it enough to have a solid opinion about it. It does round out the top of the mana curve and isn’t penalized by the damning Chalice and Trinisphere. Additionally if he comes down on turn three, you can potentially be swinging for 8 (random single mana goblin [1], Piledriver [1+4], Warchief [2]), setting up a probable lethal attack on turn four when coupled with almost any burn spell. Essentially, a resolved Warchief allows you to put the pressure on and end the game much more quickly.
Raging Goblin – Initially I ran Raging Goblin because he had great synergy with Piledriver and Mogg Flunkies. However, since I’m leaning toward not running Flunkies, Raging Goblin seems less appealing. Beyond his synergy with Piledriver, he doesn’t have any great benefits. His haste is also wasted if he is brought in via Lackey. His ability is further mitigated by the presence of Warchief, although the idea of having multiple hasted creatures isn’t necessarily a bad thing. If you do run this guy, definitely get your hands on some Portal 1 or 2 versions of this guy, because “summon creature� and having the little sword and shield on the P/T just can’t be beat.
Mogg Raider/Goblin Sledder – If you choose to run one of these, you’re really torn on which one to play. Goblin Sledder has a cooler picture and better flavor test, but Mogg Raider has the added benefit of being more “pimpy� because it’s older. In all seriousness, Sledder may have a place in the deck. Basically, your small goblins are almost unblockable with Raider on the table. For those of you who don’t immediately understand what I mean, you swing with everybody. After blockers are declared, you can sacrifice the smaller guys that are blocked and tack a 1 on to the power of a creature that is unblocked. This continues along the idea of pushing through extra damage to end the game quickly.
Mogg Flunkies – I also initially included the Flunkies but now am not so sure. Flunkies are good and are big, but sometimes you get stuck. A goblin deck wants to swing, not wait around for someone to come help. The problem with Flunkies is that if they get stuck by themselves, you’ve probably lost. For this reason, I just didn’t like Flunkies. However, they do get helped by Warchief and are possibly worth a second look.
Siege-Gang Commander – My generally rule of thumb with goblin decks is “if you can’t hardcast it, don’t run it.� Siege-Gang Commander is one of these cards. While he is rather large and can sometimes mean game, he just costs too much. The last thing monored wants to do is draw dead. Maybe as a one-of, but I think more than that is too much.
Goblin Cadets – Another goblin that I’m not fond of. While I do believe that Goblin Cadets can be a solid choice, I think it is very dependent upon the metagame. If the metagame is fish infested or has multiple scrubby/aggro decks, it is probably a bad call. You turn winning games into losing games due to tons of lost tempo by a simply creature drop. Even control decks can mess with Cadets by means of Gorilla Shaman. Basically, it’s up to you. If you feel like Cadets can swing two or three times and get through, go for it. If not, you’re better off going with something else.
Goblin Tinkerer – Yeah, ok, he isn’t the best. Really, the only reason I like him over Vandal is the fact that he costs 2 rather than 1. He also has the ability to take down a very big man (Titan, Platinum Angel, and marginally Pentavus), providing you with the extra turn or two to push through those last few points of damage. He does have the added benefit of having a 2 on the butt, meaning that fish can’t get him and something else with Fire/Ice. Admittedly, this is a very small consideration, but something worth mentioning. He also has good synergy with Warchief and is potentially uncounterable artifact destruction when coupled with Lackey and Warchief.
Goblin Vandal – Vandal has kind of had an awkward place in type 1, in that if you would run vandal, you might as well go ahead and run Gorilla Shaman. Personally, I don’t like his inclusion because of Chalice for 1. He also can’t destroy big men (usually) since said big man will just block him. However, I suppose one could argue that forcing your opponent to choose between blocking Vandal and an angry Piledriver is a good thing.
Goblin Welder – The true king of the goblins probably doesn’t deserve a slot in monored. There might be a welding trick (like, Lotus for Ankh or something), but primarily you would be hoping to wreck your opponents’ tricks instead. I think you’re better off playing something that plays your game, not your opponent’s. The other random side effect of playing Welder might be to draw out a Force of Will, in that Welder has a tendency to do that. This effect will wear off with time, but it might happen once or twice.
Skirk Prospector – This isn’t Food Chain Goblins and we aren’t running Siege-Gang. I honestly see no reason to run him, as you should have enough mana to play pretty much what you want when you want.
Akki Avalanchers – One of the new goblins. I think this has the most potential of any of the “new� CoK goblins, but am really unsure due to the fact of having never played with it. Rakso also commented on this in his article on SCG. I think there are probably better choices.
Akki Rockspeaker – Potentially can net you another mana to play men, but if he comes out via Lackey you’ll burn for 1 unless you use it to cast something other than a creature or sorcery. I don’t think he can make the cut.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker – While it would be cool to bring this guy out and copy a Piledriver then swing for quite a bit, I don’t think it could happen consistently enough to be worth it. Again, if you can’t hardcast it consistently, don’t run it.
Zo-Zu, the Punisher – A walking Ankh. If you ran a goblin deck running Ankh of Mishra, I could definitely see running this. On his own, he probably won’t be as effective as another Warchief, so I’d be reluctant to put him in for that reason.
Other goblins not mentioned here – I think this list is pretty comprehensive of goblins that should be considered. If I didn’t mention it, I probably don’t think it has a legitimate chance in the deck, although something may have slipped my mind. If you have any other suggestions, feel free to make them.
Grim Lavamancer – Kai’s unlikely sidekick should probably make an appearance in any deck running Ankh without goblins. He burns like crazy and can swing. His utility has been proven time and time again in fish, so his inclusion should probably be obvious.
Jackal Pup – Probably an auto-inclusion for any Ankh build that isn’t focused on goblins. Pup does end up being weak in the mirror (since your opponent gets two for one out of all of his burn). Additionally, it can’t block fat and prevent the damage, something that potentially matters later in the game. I generally avoid builds that require pup because of its inability to get hit effectively. One trick that you should know is that if you opponent is going to hit Pup with a rather large burn spell (like Fireblast or Goblin Grenade), you can destroy your own Pup in response by using a Fanatic or something to reduce the damage. While this trick isn’t the most useful in the world, it might come in handy sometime.
Gorilla Shaman – The mox monkey is also something that belongs in an Ankh build. It destroys jewelry—the way that people get around Ankh—and swings for 1. The monkey has long been discussed, so I won’t type further.
Burn Spells[/i]
Price of Progress – This is the card that I believe gives monored a fighting chance. Nonbasic use is very high in the current metagame, so you can often get 6 or 8 points of damage from a single PoP. I really cannot stress the strength of this card enough. Unless your metagame doesn’t have many nonbasics, Price of Progress is an autoinclusion.
Lightning Bolt – Lightning Bolt’s inclusion should be obvious. It removes creatures and does three to the dome. If you’re running monored, you should be running Lightning Bolt x4.
Chain Lightning – I feel torn about Chain Lightning. It does do that coveted three damage for one mana, but it’s a sorcery. The problem, however, is that you really need to spend it as soon as you get it, which means it’s going to be headed for the dome unless a Welder presents itself as a target. This is especially true due to the danger of a Mindslaver wrecking you by copying your own Chain Lightning against you multiple times. I really just don’t know.
Incinerate – This is probably what’s competing with Chain Lighting. There is a definite trade off here. You do get your instant speed, but you have to pay 1 more mana. You also have the minor benefit of being able to deal with River Boa or Masticore should he happen to show up.
Shock – Heh, yeah. My roommate suggested using Shock instead of Chain Lightning because of its instant speed. I was like “Dude, Shock is probably the most ghetto burn spell, ever. Not to mention, we’d be running the Stronghold version, and that set was pretty ghetto to begin with.� Ironically, he ended up losing later that evening he ended up drawing Shock instead of Chain Lightning when I was at 3 with no counters in hand. I don’t really like Shock, but it’s a consideration.
Firebolt – Shock’s slower big brother. I don’t see any reason to run this over chain lightning. I suppose that you could occasionally get to the five mana to flash it back, but that’s going to happen less than half the time. Run Chain Lightning over this.
Reckless Charge – Ok, it’s technically not a burn spell, but it generally has the same purpose as burn spells. I really don’t like this either because of the inability to play it on somebody after blockers have been declared. This means that whichever guy is charged is probably going to get blocked. Because there are things that I see as better choices for this slot, I don’t really like it.
Lava Dart – If you expect to see a lot of Welders, this could potentially be a choice for the maindeck. I think you’re probably better off with a bigger burn spell since you’ll probably be able to kill and Welders that come your way anyway, but something to consider.
Goblin Grenade – Kind of an interesting situation. Note that the card has been errataed to make the sacrifice of the goblin an additional cost to play the spell rather than something that happens after the spell resolves. I can definitely see the strength of the card, but the fact that it is a sorcery really hurts because guys that get blocked can’t use Goblin Grenade. Also, if you get into a topdecking war, this isn’t what you want to draw. I could see it as a one-of or two-of, but more than that I think is damaging to the deck.
Fireblast – Another interesting spell. Right now I’m advocating running two of these. However, I almost never play Fireblast until the very last moment (meaning, play Fireblast or lose) or I know that my opponent can’t counter it (because they have no cards in hand or something). Monored players need to be careful with Fireblast, because if they get overly aggressive, a Mana Drained Fireblast could let an opponent right back into a game by having more than enough mana to play whatever they’re holding. Use with caution.
Pyrokinesis – While a very solid card, it is often useless against non-aggressive decks. This card is probably best left in the sideboard.
Flame Rift – One last consideration. I don’t like it due to its inability to kill creatures (I would run Incinerate over this). However, you should at least know that it exists while building your deck.
Spells that aren’t Creatures or Burn[/i]
Fork – Finally unrestricted, it still doesn’t belong in monored. This is because of the errata for Fork. Let’s say you play Fork targeting something big, like Goblin Grenade (you don’t have to sacrifice another goblin). If your opponent then counters Goblin Grenade, the Fork will get countered because it now doesn’t have a legal target to copy. If, instead, you pass priority after playing the Grenade but before playing the Fork, if your opponent passes it back, Grenade resolves and you don’t get a chance to Fork it. Basically, you just can’t win with Fork. Maybe it deserves a slot so you can copy things like Ancestral or counters occasionally, but I just don’t think it carries its weight over another burn spell.
Ankh of Mishra – If you go with an Ankh build, you’ll probably want to be running this. Ankh could have the added effect of nullifying the omnipresent Crucible of Worlds in the new metagame, but I honestly haven’t tested this option very seriously.
Black Vise – Something that has been considered in Ankh builds before, I don’t know that I like it. It’s kind of the drawing dead issue that I addressed before. Although, turn 1 Vise is definitely some good if you manage to draw it.
Cursed Scroll – I used to champion this card in Sligh, but I don’t know if it can carry its weight nowadays. If you’re going with straight goblins, you’re probably just better off going with another goblin. It’s going to rotate out soon, so you’re probably best off trading them.
Overload – Could potentially be useful against some decks. Unfortunately, it probably won’t be destroying any Chalices because it costs 1. You also can’t get around Chalice by paying the kicker cost because the I prefer Tinkerer as an answer over this.
Crash – Another suggestion of my roommate. I initially felt that such an inclusion was ridiculous, but thought it was at least worth writing about here. I suppose that the ability to destroy artifacts while tapped out is cool, but probably not as useful as another burn spell or another goblin. If you feel like surprising people, you could run it.
Pulverize – Crash’s big brother. Something worth considering in the sideboard perhaps, although the Sorcery status of the spell kind of sucks. I wouldn’t run it maindeck, but perhaps in the right metagame I could see it.
Blood Moon – Something I originally included in the decklist but decided to cut. I think Blood Moon has potential but I’m not sure quite where it fits in. I’m pretty much open to suggestions. Another ruling you should be aware of: Blood Moon turns nonbasic lands into nonbasic Mountains, meaning that Price of Progress will still count it when looking for nonbasics.
The Manabase[/u][/i]
There are really only a few things to discuss regarding the manabase: artifacts, fetches, wastelands, other nonbasics, and now many sources to run altogether.
Artifacts – If you’re running Ankh of Mishra, artifacts will probably be a good idea. I say probably because if you run sacrificial artifacts (like Black Lotus and Lotus Petal), then your Ankhs could potentially be welded out. If you’re not running Ankh, I see no reason to not run at least Black Lotus and Mox Ruby. Right now our build also includes Lotus Petal, although I could definitely see cutting it. We decided against Mox Diamond because it messes with the Manabase too much and we decided against Chrome Mox because the benefit of Chrome Mox is usually less than the loss caused by having to pitch a red card. Although, we did discover that Chrome Mox could potentially draw a counter later in the game by playing it with no intent to pitch anything (which means you won’t be able to tap it for any mana). Something else to consider. Other artifacts like Sol Ring, off color Moxen, and Mana Crypt really shouldn’t be run because you really have nowhere to put that mana. Ankh builds should probably consider running Ankh of Mishra if for no other reason than to get an early Ankh down, but that’s questionable as well.
Fetches – Fetches are pretty simple. If you’re running Ankh, don’t run any fetchlands. If you aren’t running Ankh, try running anywhere from one to five. Depending upon how many sources you’re running overall, you can run as many as you feel comfortable. The more fetches, the more threats you will draw later in the game. Realistically, the only way to determine this is to run the deck and try to get a feel for what an appropriate number is.
Wastelands – By Wastelands, I mean Wasteland x4 and Strip Mine. My gut instinct is to not run Wasteland and Strip Mine in aggressive decks but to run it in decks running Ankh. Additionally, you almost can’t count Wasteland as part of the manabase in the aggressive version due to the need for red mana. I guess I would just rather be swinging or burning than destroying lands. Not to mention that destroying nonbasics hurts your Price of Progress damage later on.
Other Nonbasics – There are really only other two nonbasics worth mentioning – Mishra’s Factory and Barbarian Ring. Factory is a very solid card. However, by running it, you open yourself up to the wastelanding that the only mountain manabase avoids. Additionally, you might have trouble trying to play your red spells. In a version running Ankh, running a creature that is a land seems counter-intuitive, but it might be good. I just would prefer basic mountain. Barbarian Ring is vulnerable to Wastelands but does get you that ever precious red mana. Definitely a serious consideration for a red deck, although maybe not as a four-of. One ruling you should know about Barbarian Ring is that if you play Barbarian Ring and activate the damage ability in response to an Ankh of Mishra you will deal your damage before you take the damage from Ankh of Mishra. So, if you are at 2, drop Barbarian ring, activate it and deal lethal damage to your opponent, you will win.
Number of Sources – I’ve found the proper number of cards to run as Mana Sources is somewhere near 18 or 19. This will vary, depending upon with artifacts you run and if you are running colorless nonbasics. Proper testing should reveal precisely what number you need.
Sideboarding[/u][/i]
Sideboarding for red has usually been a pretty linear process, since monored has usually either has an answer for it or hasn’t. Not much has changed over the years.
Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast – Considered by many to be the best sideboard card ever, this is an autoinclusion in any red sideboard. I would say that 4 REB’s is probably a good number to start out with, then adjust that number up or down depending on what you plan to face. You should generally play all four REB’s before running Pyroblast because REB is less vulnerable to Misdirection (for an explanation, ask around).
Flaring Pain – Not nearly as necessary as it used to be since Circle of Protection: Red has gone out of style. You should be aware that this exists if CoP:Red is a problem.
Mogg Salvage – Just another card you should be aware of while considering your sideboard choices. Often a free shot at artifacts (unless Trinisphere is ruining your day).
Pyrokinesis – This is where Pyrokinesis belongs. Depending on your metagame, running 1 or as many as 3 or 4 could be very strong. A metagame call.
Blood Moon – Just a reminder that you can run Blood Moon in your sideboard. Again, I’m not sure exactly where this belongs.
Other Considerations – I really haven’t thought about sideboarding all that much. I’m open to better suggestions and encourage them.
Ok, so, all of that card analysis is finally out of the way. So, after some analysis, here is what I would think to be a rough guess of what the deck should look like:
Red Power v0.4
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Raging Goblin
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Tinkerer
4 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Incinerate
2 Fireblast
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Lotus Petal
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
7 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring
This deck is admittedly very preliminary. And I guess that’s about where I’m at. I would give matchups analysis, but the deck hasn’t really been played enough to give any sort of intelligent analysis.
I strongly encourage suggestions and decklists to be posted, including analysis of my individual cards. I would also like input on a good Ankh Sligh build. I got a little burned out toward the end and some of the analysis may not be as complete as I’d like. If this turned out to blossom into something big, I could edit this post to possibly be some sort of guide for sligh deckbuilders.
So that’s the end of my post. According to Microsoft Word this is the top of page 10. As I stated at the beginning, I don’t know that this is a viable idea. However, I believe that it is at least looking at semi-seriously. I obviously put a lot of time into this post, so I ask that you please keep criticism civil, (i.e., not “sligh is ded u suck!!!!111!!!eleventy-one!!�). I would like to remind you that many “bad� ideas are criticized in the beginning but end up being surprisingly successful. Please be constructive and don’t make my work on this post a complete waste. Thank you for your courtesy.
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