Rainbow Elemental

[Ephraim]

Rainbow Elemental
Creature -- Elemental

1/1

Flying
Rainbow Elemental gets +1/+1 for each color of permanent you control.

***

I'm not really sure to make this a 1/1 or a 2/2 by default. Either way, it's automatically one size larger than it appears, since it counts itself as the blue permanent. I definitely want to leave it splashable, so it can actually get played in multi-colour decks. However, something like Air Elemental which is a vanilla 4/4 flier for a nominally higher cost than this, always comes down as an uncommon. Can I fairly make this a 2/2 - (ie: a 3/3) by default, leaving it open to be a cheaper Air Elemental in a 2-colour deck and better than that in 3, 4, and 5 colour decks?

[Ephraim]

Current Wording:

Rainbow Elemental
Creature -- Elemental
{4}{U}
2/2

Flying
Rainbow Elemental gets +1/+1 for each color of permanent you control.

[Marco]

I like this. I would say make it a 2/2, but that would make it a 7/7 if you control a permanent of every colour...

[Matt]

If you can do that, you could be doing something a lot better than getting a 7/7 flyer for five mana.

2/2 is fine.

[GerryMander]

Call it Prism Elemental or Prismatic Elemental.

Something is justs a bit off about Rainbow Elemental...

[Upinthe]

This is unplayable. Make it a gold card so its slightly better.

[Laurie Cheers]

I think it would be more elegant if it said:

Rainbow Elemental
1U
Creature -- Elemental
*/*
Flying
Rainbow Elemental's power and toughness are each equal to the number of colors among permanents you control.

So it's a 1/1 flier on its own, or a 2/2 if you control a different coloured permanent. I think that's reasonable for 2 mana, but it would need testing. Perhaps 3 would be a fairer cost.

[Ephraim]

Upinthe, how would making it a Gold card make it better? Sure, it would give itself a bigger bonus, but then the player is locked into two specific colours. Plus, the mana cost would require a minimum of two coloured mana. I think that the weakening, due to colour requirements would be far worse than the slight benefit of the card automatically getting +2/+2.

Laurie, while with a base of "3/3" may be overcosted, I definitely think that with a base of "1/1} is tremendously undercosted. While Matt made the compelling argument that if you have a permanent of every colour you can do better than a 7/7 flier for 5, I think it's hard to beat a 5/5 flier for 2. I'd be willing to compromise somewhere in the middle -- maybe have it cost or and start off as a base "2/2."

[stolen]

When I first saw this, my first instinct was to suggest making it start with 0/0.  But then Laurie did that.  I'll get you next time, Cheers.  *shakes fist*

I do agree with Ephraim that is undercosted, though.  I want to see or , but otherwise exactly like Laurie's.  Remember that, even if it did cost just , it's not at all the same thing as 2 for a 5/5 flyer.  That would a) require that you play a 5-color deck, and b) mean that you already control a permanent of each color.  Even if it was only 2 or 3 mana for a 5/5 flyer, it's not going to be coming out on the second or third turn.

I think the best cost for that effect would be .  It's 4 mana for a strong finisher in a 5-color deck, but with a very strong conditional.  Remember that it's permanents of each color, so you can't just splash Blue for draw/counterspell, or Red for burn.

[Ephraim]

I've made some changes to this card. I just wanted to bump it back to the top.

[Laurie Cheers]

At the moment I think this is very very weak. Even a five-colour deck rarely has permanents of each colour in play.

Have you considered making this an artifact creature?

[Ephraim]

I hadn't really considered making it an artifact creature, no. For one, I like the idea of it being an elemental and artifact-creature elementals are hard on flavour, in my opinion. Also, aside from a few notable exceptions, artifacts don't care about colours all that much. I've been thinking about this more and it seems kind of weak. It may be stronger than Skyreach Manta, which is saying something, but Manta is definitely common material. I'm thinking of keeping the cost at , but going back to some more powerful numbers - base 2/2 with +1/+1 for each colour of permanent you control. That way it's a Phantom Monster at the very least, which is okay for a rare.

[Jacob Orlove]

The 3U with a 2/2 base seems like a good option--powerful enough to make it interesting, without being hugely undercosted.

[Zelc]

I don't know... 3U for a 3/3 flying creature (it counts itself as a blue permanent) that can get larger (4/4 is VERY reasonable in limited, since most decks splash at least one color) seems to be pretty broken to me.   Most 3M flyers these days are 2/2 with a decent ability; Phantom Monster is the only 3/3 3U flier I can find that doesn't have a drawback.  I'd attach a 1/1 base to this thing.  That way, it starts off as a 2/2, has a good chance of being a 3/3, and has the potential to get even larger.

[Ephraim]

Truth be told, I'd rather increase this thing's mana cost to again than reduce it's power and toughness. There's nothing wrong with elementals being costly to cost and I'd much rather create a big elemental than a little one. You're absolutely right that it isn't fair to compare it to Phantom Monster, since it hasn't been printed for ages. If I wanted this to be of low rarity, Hoverguard Overseer would be the current state of the art. However, a more apt comparison, since I intend for this card to be rare, might be [card]Possessed Aven[/card], which is slightly weaker than this, but has a little bit more depth to it. At any rate, what would others like to see? Should I decrease the base power and toughness to 1/1 or should I increase the mana cost to ?

[Jacob Orlove]

The 3U 2/2 flyers are all commons. This would be a rare, and fair in limited.

Also, Phantom Monster showed up as recently as 5th or 6th, iirc.

[Zelc]

Phantom Monster was reprinted in 5th Edition.

We could compare this to Possessed Aven.  Possessed Aven starts off as a 3/3 with the potential to become a 4/4 and gain a limited creature kill ability.  However, Threshold generally doesn't kick in turn 5 or 6.

Rainbow Elemental starts off as a 3/3 and is a 4/4 if you control a permanent of another color (easily achieved by turn 5, when you first swing with this).  If the deck is 3 color, it could even be a 5/5 (but it will probably be a 4/4 for most of its life).  This is somewhat similar to Skyreach Manta's situation, although it means that colorless manafixers aren't worth as much.

When costing Rainbow Elemental, it's probably easier to cost it as if it were a 4/4 flier with a minor drawback.  I think that warrants 2UU at least, if not 4U.

[Ephraim]

I think that Zelc's probably right. Even at the rare level, [card]Possessed Aven[/card], [card]Extravagant Spirit[/card], and [card]Troublesome Spirit[/card] seem to be about the best that blue gets for four mana. Since this is never worse than Phantom Monster and seldom worse than Air Elemental, I'm going to raise its mana cost to and call for a 24 Hour Clock.

[Matt]

Closed and added.[/color]