Do you look at your opponent's faces?

[Bram]

Do you look at your opponent's faces when playing a tourney? And I'm not talking about checking to see if they're cute or examining that weird zit. I'm also not talking about glancing once or twice, but rather about actively trying to discern something from their facial expressions regularly during the match.

I find that people tend to be lousy at hiding facial expressions, especially when faced with difficult decisions.

Discuss.

[The Atog Lord]

I just look at the cards on the table. That's all the information I need. Though maybe I'm missing something...

[Jacob Orlove]

Not only do I usually not look at my opponents, but I have a ridiculous number of tells, especially when I'm doing poorly.

[Machinus]

If my deck doesn't crap out on me, I can keep a good face and watch my opponent. Usually when I am under stress though, I don't have the extra resources to determine what my opponent is thinking.

This tactic I think is a lot better when you are the beatdown. If you are the control deck, it doesn't really matter what your opponent is thinking, since their threats are on the board and you are the one that has to do the tricks. Of course this example is too simplistic, but if you are in a solid board position, it is easier to gather information about your opponent than if you are trying to answer threats or stay in the game.

[walkingdude]

I think watching the opponent for tells is fairly important. I’m not even good at it and it stills wins me a fair number of games just because often my opponents are even worse at hiding tells then I am at reading them.

Sometimes when the opponent plays a spell you can just flat out ask them, “is that a real threat or just counter bait?� and see from their face what the answer is which makes deciding what to counter a lot easier. Of course, against a good opponent this can backfire and get you killed, so I generally don’t try to read people I think are better then me.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Examing in your opponent important? Yes

Should you do it? Yes

Should you become better at it? Yes

Do I do it? No.  :lol:  

Its probably why I DON'T win at all.

[Magi]

I try and remember, but I'm usually too stressed out to remember to do it consistently.

It works on most people though, but the good players are hard to read so when I'm playing against them I don't even bother.

[Matt]

I only play online, so no. I won't contaminate your poll though.

[Eastman]

I just look at the cards on the table. That's all the information I need. Though maybe I'm missing something...

It is all the information you need.

Good players really only give you information when that information won't effect your play.

When I play against bad players (which is the majoriy, lets be realistic) I watch them much more closely because they often give things away by the obvious ways that they try to bluff counters etc.

[Methuselahn]

Yes.  I try to spend half of my opponents turn reading them and the other half planning my own turn.

[Bram]

I only play online, so no. I won't contaminate your poll though.

What, you don't have a webcam?  

Strangely, at least 4 people in this trhead have basically said NO flat out, or 'I think I should, but if I'm fair, I usually don't', and then some people who say the do it sometimes but either badly or incosistently.

Fair enough. But why do I only have one NO vote then??

[Vegeta2711]

I never look at my opponent for any kind of read on them, I'm usually just focusing on my own play and the cards in play.

[Toad]

I voted NO because
- All the information you need to know is located on the board, in your hand and in your opponent's hands.
- Cheating emotions is really easy to do.

[Kowal]

I'm with Eastman on this one.  Only the mediocre and below players will really give you accurate information, but that really is the vast majority, so it's worth it anyway.  Also, if it's late and your opponent is playing something complicated, they might be fatigued and stressed enough to begin giving those tells you can pick up from earlier opponents, and I think THAT's when it's really key to be trying to pick up that kind of stuff.

[CF]

Depends on the opponent (if he knows why I'm looking he can bluff, and it's better to just disregard it, 95% aren't like this though) and what deck he's playing and what the situation is. I usually look at it during their drawstep (or as they resolve a drawspell) and the reaction as I play a spell.

--
Chris

[CF]

Depends on the opponent (if he knows why I'm looking he can bluff, and it's better to just disregard it, 95% aren't like this though) and what deck he's playing and what the situation is. I usually look at it during their drawstep (or as they resolve a drawspell) and the reaction as I play a spell.

--
Chris

[thorme]

I do not look at my opponent, but only at the game state.  Mostly, it is to keep myself concentrated on the game though.

Do I think I would be a better player if I could add this dimension to my game?  Absolutely.  I've seen fellow TSB member Phantom Tape Worm play - and he is the best at using the non-game-state factors to his advantage that I've ever seen.

[Smmenen]

I try to look at my opponent as much as possible - directly and strongly.

[Dante]

I try to look at my opponent as much as possible - directly and strongly.

Only on their turn (if they get one).  On your turn you're gushing to Kevin about what you just topdecked...

[dicemanx]

I try to look at my opponent as much as possible - directly and strongly.

Back in my cadet chess-playing days, we had this one cadet whose strategy was to wreck the concentration of his opponent by staring into his eyes when it was his opponents turn to move. Now keep in mind that the average chess game at that level was 3-4 hours, so this kid was basically staring at you for half that time.  You literally wanted to look up at him and ask him wtf he was looking at. But of course, he wanted you to waste your time and energy on such thoughts.

Me, I just wore a cap when I played him and lowered the bill . He was actually a relatively weak player without his "tactics".


In magic, I try to be subtle when checking out my opponent for telling body language and eye movement, but I do it mainly through peripheral vision. I rarely look at someone directly.

[The Atog Lord]

I avoid the mind-games aspect of the game entirely. It's just about impossible to get in my head during the course of a game. No amount of being stared at is going to change how I play a match.

Granted, the flip side of this is that I won't be getting any free "tells" by examining my opponent, nor will I "intimidate" anyone by looking at them. That's fine with me, though -- I'd much rather just focus on my own game and playing as well as I can.

[TracerBullet]

I talk about everything on the face of the planet while playing.  Not only does it distract my opponent from whatever it is they're thinking about, but it makes them ask what the hell kind of logical connection there is between the different references I make.  Basically, I try to be so off the wall that they attempt to kill me, preferably in a way that isn't sanctioned by DCI rules.


Either that, or I start calling them "jefe" and the screw up my own gameplan, which is simply to win.

[kl0wn]

If I didn't look my opponent in the eye, how could I make kissy faces at them?

[Smmenen]

I try to look at my opponent as much as possible - directly and strongly.

Back in my cadet chess-playing days, we had this one cadet whose strategy was to wreck the concentration of his opponent by staring into his eyes when it was his opponents turn to move. Now keep in mind that the average chess game at that level was 3-4 hours, so this kid was basically staring at you for half that time.  You literally wanted to look up at him and ask him wtf he was looking at. But of course, he wanted you to waste your time and energy on such thoughts.

Me, I just wore a cap when I played him and lowered the bill . He was actually a relatively weak player without his "tactics".


In magic, I try to be subtle when checking out my opponent for telling body language and eye movement, but I do it mainly through peripheral vision. I rarely look at someone directly.

I hope your not implying that I'm a weak player without mind games?

I think psychological intimidation is a big part of this game.  There are three types of players: players who use it, players who are intimidated, and players who are inward and aren't very affected by it.  David Allen and Rich Shay are the latter type.  However, there is much to be said for it, and I'll save that discussion for another day.

[Phantom Tape Worm]

Psychology is always going to have an impact on anything where humans are making decisions...to some degree anyway.

Unfortunately, no amount of ninja mind control prevents a workshop from tapping for 3 mana into a trinisphere or a crucible on the first turn.  


I would like to remind anyone that is intent on using "mind games", please don't cross any lines into "now I'm being a penis" territory.  It's one thing to attempt to induce a certain amount of tension in the match, that is good.   I play this game to feel the thrill of winning (hopefully) a high stress game.  And I love this game the most when there is the most possible stress on me and my opponent.  Where your heart is pounding and your hands are sweating and you can barely keep your wits about you.  And of course your opponent is experiencing the same, and then the game becomes a contest of who can wade through the pressure best without going under themselves.  All the while you're assulting them psychologically in a manner they're not even conciously aware of; constantly leading them into misplays, pushing them off balance, luring them, manuevering them.  My God, it's fucking beautiful.

BUT...but, it's a whole nother thing to just be a prick though.  Making people angry intentionally or making them experience truly negative feelings is not cool.  Anybody can be a pen-fifteen, it takes zero finesse, zero "skillz".  More importantly though, being a dick leaves everyone with a sour taste in their mouth after the match.  

The bottom line is, if you're going to play the emotional side of our little probablities game, make sure you don't cross over into dickville.

[dicemanx]

All the while you're assulting them psychologically in a manner they're not even conciously aware of; constantly leading them into misplays, pushing them off balance, luring them, manuevering them. My God, it's fucking beautiful.

PTW, you should check out the mad time scrambles at high level chess tournaments. It's one of the most intense battles in the entire sport world in my opinion - those without the requisite level of physical fitness have been known to suffer heart attacks during a game - no exaggeration. You don't even have to be able to follow the game itself - you can feel the incredible tension just by watching both players and by noticing all of the other kibitzers around you holding their breath.

I'm a time trouble addict myself, so I have lived through such situations throughout much of my life when playing at high level events. This is perhaps why I seem like a calm individual now where little can phase me, because compared to the intense, almost unbearable pressure where you and your opponent are literally down to seconds to rattle off the remaining 10-20 moves in chess, playing something like a nice game of Magic is so tame by comparison .

I hope your not implying that I'm a weak player without mind games?

Steve, not in the slightest. You are quite the exception to just about every rule, and I mean that as a compliment - its what best characterizes a *true* individualist.

But, as PTW suggests, there are individuals that will try to throw you off your game to make up for their "deficiencies", whether it be Magic "skillz" or social skills.

[Saucemaster]

I usually just glance at my opponent whenever he draws a card or when he seems to have a decision to make.  Every so often, when the match gets more intense, I will stare directly if my opponent seems to have a particularly hard decision, or is taking a long time.  Mostly because a good number of players will get a little flustered and more easily betray their hand that way.  It's actually something I should do alot more frequently, since most of the time I barely ever look up from my cards.

Oh, and I just couldn't resist:

being a dick leaves everyone with a sour taste in their mouth

I am Clergy-en-Vec.  I am the blow job.

[Razvan]

I usually wear a baseball cap, and just lower my head when thinking. This generally eliminated distractions.

Also, I think during my opponent's turn, most likely, unless I get an unexpected turn of events... Topdecking a Yawgmoth's Will, having a Balance or a Mind Twist happen, or counter a spell. Most times, the play is mechanic, unless you play a combo deck.

During my turn, when most opponents try to stare, I usually either play faster or a bit slower, alternating, to dictate the tempo. It's nice to be able to rest for 10-15 seconds.

Besides, most people are scared of me, so they rarely stare me down anyhow.

[Redman]

I rarely look at my opponent, and the intimidation thing I think detracts from the game. Even worse are the folks who will make snarky comments to try and throw you off.  It can work, certainly, but it's not something that makes me feel good, and ultimately, I still play the game more for fun than pure competition.

Incidentally, intimidating or angering people often makes them more motivated to beat you, whereas being friendly can often cause them to let down their guard somewhat. And who knows, you might even make a friend.


The whole trying to read other people I find a general waste of time, as it usually takes a while for me to get to know someone well enough. With my friends who I would play with on a weekly basis,  reading was certainly more a part of my tatic than nowadays, where I can at best remember a handful of the names of people I've played.

However, when I've played "simpler" decks, I have done things in game to affect the out of game state, bluffs and the like. I try to be as subtle as possible with that, but it includes things like attacking with a creature that looks like it shoudl just be blocked and die, but basically bluff a creature enchancer or direct damge spell or the like to get the damage through. It's simple stuff, but it gets your opponent to think, and I find it can even add to the game if done right and in the right spirit.

One of my favorite of this kind of play (a common one, I'm sure) was when playing Nether Void, to look through my graveyard when I had a spell I wanted to get through, to make the opponent think I was using my real spell that I wanted to resolve as bait for a Yawg Will.  I didn't do it often, but I found it to work with a relatively high rate of success, ceratinly more that I expected.

Of course, as has been said, better players tend to be less prey to these sorts of things, and tournament experience will do a lot to help you be prepared for the different tactics people will try.

These days, I play mostly more complex decks, with more control elements, and tutor effects, like Survival. This coupled with the general rise in complexity of opposing decks and the general increase in the significance of individual decisions when playing has caused me to focus almost entirely on the game itself, to the point of excluding all sorts of outside stimuli.  I've more than once missed out on some raffle prize I happened to be called for while in a match, or had no clue that all my friends has left to go find food. Though I certainly tend to be the sort of person who can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

I think the big thing though is that the atmosphere surrounding tournaments has changed quite a bit in the last 2 or 3 years, from a much more casual, where I might fool around with a few tricks, to a much more competitive one where the game becomes the sole focus.

[Smmenen]

I would agree with you more if the game was more pure.

If you think that tournament results reflect the best deck objectively speaking, rising to the top, that is a mistake.  Winning tournaments involves a confluence of factors that is far different from finding the best deck.  

Psychology is an inherent part of this game and it can't be taken away.