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Author Topic: T1 Theory: Type One Decks as Fruit in a seasonal metagame  (Read 4748 times)
Smmenen
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« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2004, 04:08:49 am »

Oscar Tan said the same thing.

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=5978

Quote from: Oscar Tan
For me, it's not so much change that is good, but the resulting broad and relatively stable format. Reminiscing, maybe the best Type I period in years was after Fact or Fiction was restricted but before Growing 'Tog became an issue. In retrospect, I actually enjoyed less-than-intelligent"Is Zoo really dead, Oscar Tan?!" comments thrown at me, and I loved the simultaneous discussion of over twenty different archetypes in all four categories. Type I in the last year has seen more change than it has in the past decade, arguably. That's good, but I also dislike it in the sense that all these upheavals make it feel a bit too much like Type II and its rapid rotations...

Again, my ideal Type I is a broad and relatively stable field where you can expect to play and play against a variety of decks in a tournament and where you can introduce innovation and new decks without shaking up the entire format. And again, I'm thinking about restrictions aimed at bringing down the power level a bit possibly because I'm wondering if Type I is evolving or imploding.



Well, like I said in the article, T1 coming of age means that it will lose lots of the casual players who played it for years.  I'll shed no tears.
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rocknrossi
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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2004, 05:48:16 am »

[/quote]

Well, like I said in the article, T1 coming of age means that it will lose lots of the casual players who played it for years.  I'll shed no tears.[/quote]

How can you say something like that if the type one community shrinks it affects everyone. Losing passionate players because of a predictable metagame that goes in cycles as you mentioned earlier is bad news to everyone. The tournaments at type 1 events are made up of many players at different skill levels playing verious decks. This helps the dealers keep tournaments going if only the best players showed up they'd be drving four hours to play with 12 people that should shed you some tears. You need people in the type one players like you need water in your body to keep the format going. And if the metagame is turning people off for whatever reason you should be worried about tournament turnouts where people  wanna play their best decks even if they don't win. The loss of the casual player can hurt much more than you over simplified.
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« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2004, 11:21:23 am »

Quote from: rocknrossi
Quote
Well, like I said in the article, T1 coming of age means that it will lose lots of the casual players who played it for years.  I'll shed no tears.


How can you say something like that if the type one community shrinks it affects everyone. Losing passionate players because of a predictable metagame that goes in cycles as you mentioned earlier is bad news to everyone. The tournaments at type 1 events are made up of many players at different skill levels playing verious decks. This helps the dealers keep tournaments going if only the best players showed up they'd be drving four hours to play with 12 people that should shed you some tears. You need people in the type one players like you need water in your body to keep the format going. And if the metagame is turning people off for whatever reason you should be worried about tournament turnouts where people  wanna play their best decks even if they don't win. The loss of the casual player can hurt much more than you over simplified.


That would be a concern--if tournament attendence didn't keep steadily rising.

2001: You have insular, stagnant metagames where 10 people show up to each tourney and play the same decks every time.  Getting enough people to have 5 rounds was a big deal.
2004: You have large tournies every month with over 100 people at them.

Personally, if you like that sort of format, that's your perogative and I'm not going to tell you to change.  The problem just arises when you are trying to draw conclusions about the format AS A WHOLE using your black box.  Because nobody else gets to look inside it to see what sort of basis your statements have with regards to the metagame, deck construction, and so on, nobody else can tell if your conclusions are logical or not, and thus your "intuition," "gut experience," and "anecdotal evidence" has to remain just that, rather than becoming "fact" or "a conclusion draw from hard data."
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Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
Gandalf_The_White_1
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« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2004, 03:09:50 pm »

@ Shockwave on the subject of the drone syndrome, etc:  

Information given to a player is a tool that they choose to use as they wish.  If someone wants to blindly play w/e smmenen t8-ed with at the last big tourney, that is their choice.

I think your quarrel lies with the people that allow themselves to be "mindless drones" as you put it.  The people that don't innovate on their own.  The people who play a deck because it did well instead of thinking about why/how it suceeded.

The information/data given to the players should inform them and educate them; however, in general, people are stupid.  If we assume that factors related to intelligence are not realted to whether or not someone plays t1 (which may or may not be true), Vintage players, in general, are also stupid.  They would rather let some team do the work for them, and that is the cause of what you refer to as a less fun environment- the players themselves.

On a realted note to this, we can learn something from Smmenen: he almost always t8s in any even he attends.  He is a member of a team that platests, innovates their own decks, and thinks about things- I don't think anyone can accuse the memebers Meandeck of being "mindless drones."  If people want to suceed, the way is not by using Meandeck's decks but by adopting Meandeck's methods (to an extent), and not being/exploiting the mindless drones.

Edit: typos
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2004, 03:57:05 pm »

This got off-topic sooo bad. Closed.
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