Righteous Renewal

[Norm4eva]

Righteous Renewal
W
Sorcery

Return target creature card with power 3 or less from your graveyard to play.

I realize that graveyard recursion is not often explored in White - the only card that comes to mind in a similar vein is Breath of Life, but it is in flavor for White to call on the Almighty and I seem to recall resurrection being one of the things He's known for.  :P  I doubt this is anymore abusive than Unearth, probably less so as this will never grab a Negator back from chumpage.  Yay or nay?

[Norm4eva]

Righteous Renewal
W
Sorcery

Return target creature card with power 3 or less from your graveyard to play.

[Denney The Third]

This would pull white into many decks:
-Tog:u killed it somehow?It's back again.
-anything that plays welder.
-perhaps anew r/w deck? here come mox monkey for rd 2?
-fish? plenty they can go for.

This card is fairly powerful but balanced by the lack of white decks, and the disruption to mana bases its addition to a deck would make.

Perhaps the mana cost is too low? I'm glad you made it a sorcery.

[Jacob Orlove]

Unearth already does this, but sees no play in T1.

White also has stuff like that threshold hero that comes back, and sacred ground. I think this is fine and in-flavor.

[breseboy]

I do not think it would get play.

[Ephraim]

Is it right to shift this ability to white? Although white at one shared the "resurrection" theme with black, it seems that effects that return creatures from graveyards are firmly black. Not only is this card basically identical to Unearth, but White, Zombify, in 8th Edition, is clear evidence that this sort of ability has not shifted back to white.

[Norm4eva]

White's had a smattering of (bad) reanimation spells over the years.  Resurrection is as old as Animate Dead; from there White has such 'goods' as Angelic Renewal, Reya Dawnbringer, Pulsemage Advocate, Reborn Hero, and Breath of Life, to name most of them.  Obviously, Black has proven to be better at it; White does it from time to time, just not as efficiently (or depending on how you look at it, with much less personal sacrifice at stake).  It's not out of flavor, it's just a rarely expressed flavor.

[stolen]

This used to be CC 3 or less, and not power 3 or less, right?  At any rate, I think this is better than using CC.

Even if the most recent resurrection effect was Black, I think it's still somewhat within White's domain, if the flavor is appropriate (Black is zombies and undead, White resurrection and new life).

To go off on a slight tangent, what about a white Living Death-type effect that buried all creature with power 3 or greater, and then returned from the graveyard all creatures with power 2 or less?

[Ephraim]

Ah, no, it didn't used to read "converted mana cost 3 or less." I misread the card. So it isn't identical to Unearth, although it generates a similar effect with a similar drawback.

I'm going to rescind my objection, though. A closer look at recent resurrection effects reveals Breath of Life (7th Ed.) and Reya Dawnbringer (Invasion.) The power of three or less clause also plays well into white's affinity for small creatures.

On a side note, Stolen, I really like that other card you've suggested. It'd really be worth its own thread.

[stolen]

On a side note, Stolen, I really like that other card you've suggested. It'd really be worth its own thread.

Thanks, although I already have two threads open and a third in lockdown waiting for a space.  Anyone else who wants to make a thread on that idea, go ahead.

[Norm4eva]

This one's all right, then?  With no further objections I'll assume a 24 hr clock um.... NOW.

[Upinthe]

I don't know about this. If you can find a way to dump cards in your graveyard (Bazaar of Baghdad, Hermit Druid) It wouldn't be too hard to pull out something like a Mystic Enforcer or Krosan Beast with threshold. Do you guys think that's ok?

[Aeneas]

I would be more worried about reanimating utility creatures and this cards usage in combo.  This has a positive interaction with Goblin Welder, Academy Rector, and Auriok Salvager, the last two being on color with this card.

However, I currently cannot see this card being overly hurtful.  Thumbz up.

[Matt]

I don't know about this. If you can find a way to dump cards in your graveyard (Bazaar of Baghdad, Hermit Druid) It wouldn't be too hard to pull out something like a Mystic Enforcer or Krosan Beast with threshold. Do you guys think that's ok?

That's the best argument FOR the current wording! If you couldn't do cool stuff like that, why even make the card.

[stolen]

If you can find a way to dump cards in your graveyard (Bazaar of Baghdad, Hermit Druid) It wouldn't be too hard to pull out something like a Mystic Enforcer or Krosan Beast with threshold. Do you guys think that's ok?

That's hardly a game-breaking combo.

I would be more worried about reanimating utility creatures and this cards usage in combo.

Unearth was never used for this purpose.  Do you think a Rector deck would waste the resources on this card?  I really can't see a combo deck wasting the resources to play this, and even if one does, that it could be game-breaking.

Not that I fear the power of this card, but maybe the power should be lowered to 2 or less.  Compare to Unearth-this can pull many creatures that have casting costs of 4 (Aeneas and Upinthe listed four examples).  Plus this can pull more powerful critters with low power like Arcanis and Warrior Angel.  Again, I don't see this as gamebreaking, but its power level is obviously far above Unearth.

[Aeneas]

Aeneas said

I would be more worried about reanimating utility creatures and this cards usage in combo.

stolen said

Unearth was never used for this purpose.  Do you think a Rector deck would waste the resources on this card?  I really can't see a combo deck wasting the resources to play this, and even if one does, that it could be game-breaking.

Aeneas said

However, I currently cannot see this card being overly hurtful. Thumbz up.

Are we in disagreement anywhere?

[Matt]

Look at it this way:

This card would only be used when it saves you mana/other costs. How much canit save before it's broken? If it was like Tinker or something, it could save you as much as 10 mana (which is as high a cost as cards get made with).

So imagine a 1/1 for eight mana. That card would never see print because after about six mana p/t bonuses become very cheap: if a card isn't broken at 1/1 for 6GG, you might as well make it a 4/4 - it's still not going to break it, and it makes it more fun to play with.

SO:

Any card that this could bring back wouldn't be a good enough target to be degenerate. Thus it is fair.

[Norm4eva]

Exactly.  This isn't going to grab anything combolicious.  Or, more precisely, if it were grabbing something of the like, it'd be doing it at a sacrifice to consistency.  Items like Threshold critters are a moot point; anything that involves graveyard recursion AND swings for the win is just inferior to Dragon.
So are these actual concerns or just talk?  It's hard to tell if there's a genuine dislike of the card's power level from the discussion.

[Jacob Orlove]

The card is fine by me.

[MrZuccinniHead]

So imagine a 1/1 for eight mana. That card would never see print because after about six mana p/t bonuses become very cheap: if a card isn't broken at 1/1 for 6GG, you might as well make it a 4/4 - it's still not going to break it, and it makes it more fun to play with.

SCORNFUL EGOIST!

The card is fine.

[Matt]

You're not actually PAYING eight mana for it, though.

[Norm4eva]

Heh, okay, so barring any talk of Scornful Egoist tech can I assume another 24 hour clock?

[Matt]

Closed and added.[/color]