[budget]Mono-green LD

[demartijn]

Hi all,

this is my first post on TMD, however, i'm not completely new to t1. I don't own power(did had a twister once), so i mostly play budget, or borrow some power. I've played fish and ankh sligh many times before, so i wanted to build another t1 budget deck.

Enough about me, let me show you the decklist:

Mono-green Land destruction:

3 terravore
4 eternal witness
4 llanowar elves
4 fyndhorn elves

4 thermocarst
4 ice storm/winter's grasp
4 root maze
4 trinisphere
2 crucible of worlds
2 naturalize
3 null rod

4 wasteland
1 strip mine
17 forest

this decklist is inspired from Toad's post a little while ago. I added some cards myself, and here is my first build.

Here in Holland i playtest from time to time with some other t1 players like pyromaniac, bram, morefling(rvs) and many more. And I attend at almost every E'hoven T1 tourney.

So my question to you guys is, have you got any experience with this deck, or any test results?

please give me some comments,

Martijn

p.s I hope you don't mind my shitty English

[Freelancer]

The problem i can see with your deck is that it has no way to stop turn 1/2 brokeness besides root maze.

Once this deck get's rolling its pretty hard to stop, not to forget turn 1 elf, turn 2 trini, turn 3 LD is pretty sick...

The second problem is no draw/search, your deck does however has (virtual) card advantage (eternal witness, LD) i don't know if this is an issue or not...

Next...why do you have maindeck naturalizes? for what meta are these?

Anyway I hoped I helped...if not so be it...^^


Ps. I also played against your deck...(I'm the sucky proteus staff player at the Almelo tourney...changed deck by now btw...) I got pwned big time...won't happen again though...
Pss. yes my english also sucks...
Psss. this is my first post on themanadrain.com...^^

[timmy]

I think the naturalizes need to be main as to stop opposing crucible of worlds.  Rootmaze does a great job of stopping early and late brokeness.  I don't think this deck really needs trinisphere, once you get them locked down its usually game.  Trinisphere just seems like a win more card, I would cut it for 4 more LD spells.

The main problem with this deck is against decks that drop moxen, unless you have an early null rod, you have no real way to deal with their threats.  I think engineered explosives might be interesting, as it would take out opponents moxen and it can be cast first turn, and it isn't affected by rootmaze.

[Toad]

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20285

[demartijn]

thx for all your comments!

I do think the naturalizes are needed maindeck, because like timmy mentioned, a crucible is pretty much game for your oppontment. They also come in handy against random other stuff(animate death, moat, form of the dragon, oath of druids etc)

my biggest fear now is my oppontment starting with land,mox, welder. Also fetch lands and darksteel citadel don't make it any better. Anyone any suggestions on that?

Martijn

[Freelancer]

So the main reason why the naturalizes are in there is to stop crucible...good point...i was just wondering...

About the turn 1 welder, trie matching it with turn 2 ground seal...also helps against dragon etc....although ground seal is obviously a sb card...

The turn 1 rootmaze isn't always enough to stop lame broken things to happen, besides you won't always draw it. You really need a great draw to stop for instance doomsday...In all truth this deck looks pretty good... I would have to playtest to see if rootmaze combined with rod is really enough to stop brokeness.

[Sanity_XIV]

Doomsday shouldn't be too hard to stop with Root Maze. They usually get Lotus, which needs to tap to sacrifice, but root maze stops that and gives you an extra turn to kill the lotus or just kill some of their land to stop them from going off.

That and a Trinisphere will often slow them down a lot, especially if they go for something like Ancestral + Lotus + LED + Will + Tendrils.

[demartijn]

ok, thx for your replies

About the sideboad, does anyone has any ideas besides ground seal?

maybe more naturalizes are needed?

And what do you think about sword of fire/ice? It looks really strong, but it should be hard to find any room for it.....

Martijn

[Odd mutation]

Hey Martijn,

Did you play this deck about a week ago in Mol, Belgium? I saw two of these decks doing their thing and one of them did top 8. If it was you I already gave you some of my 'advise'. If not, here goes.

The decks played in Mol suffered big in the Oath matchup. That's one reason why I suggested to add white to the deck. 4 Swords to Plowshares powered by 4 Savannah, 4 Windswept Heath and one Plains.

It also helps for the other suggestion I made then and which was repeated here: Engineered Explosives. It looks like a really solid play if you include white. An Explosives for zero, one or two solves your problems nicely: it destroys moxen, it kills Welders and eats Oath of Druids.

I also noticed Tangle Wire being played.

The link Toad offered showed some interesting cardchoices as well.

The deck (there were two if I remember correctly) did well and looked cool!

Odd Mute.

[Cavius The Great]

Fetchlands work wonders with Terravore. Simply take out some Forest and add Wooded Foothills or Windswept Heath as a replacement. I would keep the forest count between 8 and 10 though, the rest should be replaced with fetchlands.

Also, has anyone thought of running a couple Sylvan Scrying to fetch the Strip Mine in the deck or is that overkill with Wastelands? More decks are running basic lands so Scrying could be a good metagame choice.

[timmy]

Sylvan scryings would be good.  But not too many.  Maybe just 2 and then 1 Crop rotation.  If you do this I would try adding the 3rd crucible as it can almost end the game if you draw either of these spells.  If you do decide to do these, the best cards to cut would probably be the eternal witness's.  In essence you would be swapping some LD spells for more LD lands.

About the Fetches.  The problem with these is that they are terrible under a root maze.  If you are going to run root maze, which you should, then you should not run fetch lands.

[bablo]

About the Fetches.  The problem with these is that they are terrible under a root maze.  If you are going to run root maze, which you should, then you should not run fetch lands.

Maybe I'm suffering from instant brain leakage, but... why is this? Why is a tapped forest any better than a tapped sac land?

[bablo]

About the Fetches.  The problem with these is that they are terrible under a root maze.  If you are going to run root maze, which you should, then you should not run fetch lands.

Maybe I'm suffering from instant brain leakage, but... why is this? Why is a tapped forest any better than a tapped sac land?

Brain leakage it was... land comes in play tapped again... sigh... it just looked like a good idea.

Btw, any thoughts on using Mox Diamond in this deck. It goes bad with the Null Rods, but it's good for game speed and Terravore... or Crucible could get yur land back.

[Malhavoc]

About the Fetches.  The problem with these is that they are terrible under a root maze.  If you are going to run root maze, which you should, then you should not run fetch lands.

Maybe I'm suffering from instant brain leakage, but... why is this? Why is a tapped forest any better than a tapped sac land?

With a forest:

1 turn:
play a tapped forest

2 turn:
untap forest


With a fetchland:
1 turn:
play a tapped fetchland

2 turn:
untap it, sac it, look for a land and put it into play tapped

3 turn:
untap the fetched land


As you can see, root maze makes fetchlands 1 turn slower than simple lands.

[bablo]

The decks played in Mol suffered big in the Oath matchup. That's one reason why I suggested to add white to the deck. 4 Swords to Plowshares powered by 4 Savannah, 4 Windswept Heath and one Plains.

Besides Oath, welders are also a very good reason to include StP. Let's do another decklist :

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Terravore
2 Eternal Witness

4 Thermokarst
4 Winter's Grasp / Ice Storm
4 Root Maze
2 Null Rod
3 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Naturalize

4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
4 Savannah
12 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mox Diamond

The decks contains 61 cards because I just don't know what to cut (maybe the plains). Because fetch lands don't work well with Root Maze - as I figured out during the course of this thread - I replaced the fyndhorns for BOPs.

[demartijn]

it might be a good idea to splash white indeed. But i personally got my doubts about it. Because your not playing that many white mana generators.

Does green has no way to fight opposing welders and fatties?

Martijn

p.s, it wasn't me who visited those tourneys you were talking about  

[demartijn]

ok. Do you think you are playing enough white mana sources? Personally i dislike splashing another colour, but it sure does deserve a trie.

But is there really no way green can deal with opposing welders and "fatties"?

[demartijn]

sorry for the double post btw

[Cavius The Great]

How on earth do you splash white where the kill card is Terravore and not run Armageddon?  

[demartijn]

hmm good point

[Freelancer]

demartijn...killing welders with granite shard is possible...o_0

if you want to be expensive hurricane is a option...

[Fominian]

On a note of splashing:  Red is an excellent choice for a LD splash as it gives you a bunch of standard 3cLD.  However, this is really irrelevant, what makes red great for a T'vore win is cards such as Raze and Tremble.

Both offer excellent land control, at a fraction of the cost (mana wise) and doubles your bang for the buck as it were.

[Grand Inquisitor]

But is there really no way green can deal with opposing welders and "fatties"?

Hmmm, I'm thinking ground seal for welders.  As far as fatties, I think the idea is to lock down so that they only get to play one fatty and then your terravore is bigger.

On a more casual note, root maze + meekstone is a combo.  Personally, I'd rather find room for tanglewire, since it has so much synergy with the rest of the deck.  It will act as an uber time walk, most of the time, which is exactly what this deck needs.

[demartijn]

@Feminian, i think that splashing red makes the mana base a little more risky, as you have multiple 1GG spells. Also, you will have to run fetch, which isn't good because of root maze.

@Grand inquisitor, ground seal for welders looks solid indeed. The tangle wire is a good idea also, but i really don't know what to cut for it. As even less LD will make it not any better.