3CB TOurnament #45 Results and Discussion

[wonkey_donkey]

I’d like to congratulate erm… wonkey_donkey as the winner of 3CB Tournament #45.
I appear to have 1-2ed this one. Maybe the ‘newsers were right about form of the dragon, it’s quite a useful card.
No winners of the mise prize, this time, although Alfred came close with virtual.dec.

The rules for this competition will be: Anything Goes!

Banned list:
Portal
Unglued
[card]Black Lotus[/card]
[card]Mesmeric Fiend[/card]
[card]Blackmail[/card]
[card]Chain of Smog[/card]
[card]Hymn to Tourach[/card]
[card]Cabal Therapy[/card]
[card]Encroach[/card]
[card]Mind Swords[/card]
[card]Forget[/card]
[card]Anvil of Bogarden[/card]
[card]Strip Mine[/card]
[card]Wasteland[/card]
[card]Raze[/card]
[card]The Rack[/card]
[card]Wheel of Torture[/card]
[card]Balance[/card]
[card]Meddling Mage[/card]
[card]Isochron Scepter[/card]
[card]Phrexian Dreadnaught[/card]
[card]Lion's Eye Diamond[/card]
[card]Evil Presence[/card]
[card]Sea's Claim[/card]

wonkey_donkey -   Not Bodyroc   -   [card]Tropical Island[/card],   [card]Thallid[/card],   [card]Daze[/card]
Alfred   - Scalding Bridge   -   [card]Mishra's Workshop[/card],   [card]Ensnaring Bridge[/card],   [card]Scalding Tongs[/card]
CaptainPlanet.dec   - Metawarp   -   [card]Mishra's Workshop[/card],   [card]Soldevi Sentry[/card],   [card]Tsabo's Web[/card]
LotusHead   - Ferrogreaves   -   [card]Mishra's Workshop[/card],   [card]Ferropede[/card],   [card]Lightning Greaves[/card]
combo_dude   - trying to get it banned.dec   -   [card]Mishra's Workshop[/card],   [card]Mana Vault[/card],   [card]Leveler[/card]
fadeblue   - Roc&Ruin   -   [card]Plateau[/card],   [card]Roc Hatchling[/card],   [card]Swords to Plowshares[/card]
r_x_   - Angel Strikes Back!   -   [card]Hickory Woodlot[/card],   [card]Channel[/card],    [card]Platinum Angel[/card]
walkingdude -   Shadowy Fields Forever   -   [card]Saprazzan Skerry[/card],   [card]Energy Field[/card],   [card]Thalakos Sentry[/card]
Nazdakka   - Lumbercrack!   -   [card]Taiga[/card],   [card]Orcish Lumberjack[/card],   [card]Aftershock[/card]
Zelc -   Metadec, I hope   -   [card]City of Traitors[/card],   [card]Mox Emerald[/card],   [card]Words of Wilding[/card]
leviat -   Just a spoonful of sugar helps the poison go down   -   [card]Forest[/card],   [card]Mishra's Factory[/card],    [card]Drop of Honey[/card]
rvs   - I hope I go first!.dec    -   [card]Mishra's Workshop[/card],   [card]Trinisphere[/card],   [card]Steel Golem[/card]
Virtual   - TapPit   -   [card]City of Traitors[/card],   [card]Coretapper[/card],   [card]Spawning Pit[/card]
wonkey_donkey   - Yoink   -   [card]Mercadian Bazaar[/card],   [card]Form of the Dragon[/card],   [card]Maze of Ith[/card]
Alfred   - Ican'tbelieveIwonthemiseprize.dec   -   [card]Saprazzan Skerry[/card],   [card]Energy Field[/card],   [card]Maze of Ith[/card]
Nazdakka   - Ol' Faithful   -   [card]Mishra's Workshop[/card],   [card]Mana Vault[/card],   [card]Leveler[/card]
combo_dude -   white ladder   -   [card]Mox Pearl[/card],   [card]Mishra's Factory[/card],   [card]Seal of Cleansing[/card]

How to read the table:
Match the deck# on the left with the deck # on top. Append a 1 where appropriate. The #s on the right of that deck correspond to how many points that deck received versus the deck on top. (Once again append a 1 where appropriate. The 1's are missing to make the table clearer)

0  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7   Total
1| x 4 6 3 3 3 6 6 6 3 0 3 6 0 6 3 6     64
2| 1 x 6 6 6 6 2 2 2 6 6 6 6 0 2 6 0     63
3| 0 0 x 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 6 2 0 0     13
4| 3 0 3 x 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0     10
5| 3 0 6 6 x 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 6 0 2 2 0     31
6| 3 0 6 6 6 x 6 2 6 0 2 0 6 0 2 6 6     57
7| 0 2 6 6 6 0 x 2 0 6 0 0 6 0 2 6 6     48
8| 0 2 6 2 6 2 2 x 0 6 2 0 6 2 2 6 0     44
9| 0 2 6 6 6 0 6 6 x 3 0 0 2 2 2 6 6     53
0| 3 0 6 6 6 6 0 0 3 x 6 3 6 6 2 6 0     59
1| 6 0 2 6 6 2 6 2 6 0 x 0 2 0 2 6 0     46
2| 3 0 6 6 0 6 6 6 6 3 6 x 6 0 2 0 3     59
3| 0 0 6 6 0 0 0 0 2 0 2 0 x 0 2 0 0     18
4| 6 6 0 6 6 6 6 2 2 0 6 6 6 x 2 6 2     68
5| 0 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 x 2 2     30
6| 3 0 6 6 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 6 0 2 x 0     31
7| 0 6 6 6 6 0 0 6 0 6 6 3 6 2 2 6 x     61

Final Standings:

1:   wonkey_donkey 68
2:   wonkey_donkey 64
3:   Alfred 63
4:   combo_dude 61
5:   rvs 59
   Zelc
7:   fadeblue 57
8:   Nazdakka 53
9:   r_x_ 48
10:   leviat 46
11:   walkingdude 44
12:   combo_dude 31
   Nazdakka
14:   Alfred 30
15:   Virtual 18
16:   CaptainPlanet.dec 13
17:   LotusHead 10

Hmmm. For once, leveler was played after a banning was suggested, and this time the metagame was ready. A good thing? Debatable. A polarised metagame (i.e. leveler and leveler-hate) is not a good thing. Equally, should FotD be banned? I think that the maze of ith deck is very strong, and removing FotD is probably not going to impact the metagame too much - on the other hand, it isn't dominant (yet...) so should it be left alone for the time being?

I must confess to being quite pleased with my deck choices this time around . They worked well enough, anyway. Alfred's deck could never have quite won the mise prize, as no matter which land he chose a deck was going to beat it! I almost wish he could have succeeded so that I could ban the damn thing, but not to worry.

A couple of things to think about in terms of bans - form of the dragon and leveler. If leveler goes, do we replace it with masknaught? Any other potential unbannings? Let me know what you all think.

Please post corrections/discussion.

Tom

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Wow, my metagamed deck only hated 3 decks...

[Goblinboy]

Hmmm.... this round gives me an idea for a format.

Not that my idea is anything similar to this at all, but it was still the source of inspiration .

Thanks, wonkey_donkey

-Goblinboy

[leviat]

I would like to contend one of my results...

My deck is: Forest, Mishra's Factory, Drop of Honey.

Against Deck #1 (Tropical Island, Thallid, Daze)

Nothing in my deck can be Dazed and Thallid dies a horrible death to Drop of Honey when it's cast.

Score: 6 (- Score Given 0) = Net +6

[combo_dude]

CaptainPlanet.dec: The main problem is the Mishra's Workshop. You can't regenerate with Workshop mana.

Also, I've been trying to argue this point with people, so I'll try and get a consensus - can Workshop mana pay for a Dazed Mana Vault? I think it can as it's paying for an artifact spell.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

CaptainPlanet.dec: The main problem is the Mishra's Workshop. You can't regenerate with Workshop mana.

Also, I've been trying to argue this point with people, so I'll try and get a consensus - can Workshop mana pay for a Dazed Mana Vault? I think it can as it's paying for an artifact spell.

I can't?

This mana may not be used to pay costs imposed after the spell is initially played, as with Power Sink and Nether Void. [WotC Rules Team 1995/10/18]
You can spend the mana on costs on the spell's text. [WotC Rules Team 1995/11/10]

That answers your Daze question, but doesn't that second rule basically say I can pay mana from Workshop from abilities?

[combo_dude]

Workshop says "Spend this mana only to play artifact spells." You aren't playing an artifact spell, so you can't use it.

I mean, AFAIK you can't use Workshop mana for a creature like Karn, so I doubt you can for this either. I remember Laurie Cheers played that deck (or similar) but with City of Traitors, which definitely works.

Thanks for the Daze answer though.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Workshop says "Spend this mana only to play artifact spells." You aren't playing an artifact spell, so you can't use it.

I mean, AFAIK you can't use Workshop mana for a creature like Karn, so I doubt you can for this either. I remember Laurie Cheers played that deck (or similar) but with City of Traitors, which definitely works.

Thanks for the Daze answer though.

So what exactly is the point of the ruling about costs on text?

[Jacob Orlove]

Workshop says "Spend this mana only to play artifact spells." You aren't playing an artifact spell, so you can't use it.

I mean, AFAIK you can't use Workshop mana for a creature like Karn, so I doubt you can for this either. I remember Laurie Cheers played that deck (or similar) but with City of Traitors, which definitely works.

Thanks for the Daze answer though.

So what exactly is the point of the ruling about costs on text?

It's for stuff like Kicker.

[wonkey_donkey]

Workshop says "Spend this mana only to play artifact spells." You aren't playing an artifact spell, so you can't use it.

I mean, AFAIK you can't use Workshop mana for a creature like Karn, so I doubt you can for this either. I remember Laurie Cheers played that deck (or similar) but with City of Traitors, which definitely works.

Thanks for the Daze answer though.

So what exactly is the point of the ruling about costs on text?

It's for stuff like Kicker.

That was my first thought, but the ruling's from 1995, making me a little wary. I'm sure that it can't be used to activate the sentry, but I'm just a little unsettled now that I've seen that ruling.

Tom

[walkingdude]

This is minor since it doesn’t effect standings, but I think I can get a point off lumber crack.


Me vs Lumbercrack

Me first: Land go
Them: land jack
Me: dude go
Them:
If they kill my land I’m ahead on the damage race and win
If they kill my dude then I untap and play flux next turn drawing the game

so
They Attack putting Me to 19
I attack back putting them to 19 and holding flux in my hand
Me to 18
Them to 18
…
me to 3
I attack they go to 3. Then I cast flux. If they don’t blow it up I win the damage race now. If they do blow it up then it kills them and I win.

So I should be able to draw playing first against lumber crack.

[wonkey_donkey]

Yes, you're right. I forgot about aftershock dealing 3 damage - usually it's not desperately relevant! Will change it.

Tom

[Alfred]

Wow, I did pretty well this round! I was the second highest player, and I was one away from getting the mise-prise. If wonkey didn't exist, I would have taken both! DAMN YOU WONKEY!

EDIT:

When playing against your thallid deck wonkey, can the daze on scalding tongs not be paid with the mana left over from workshop? Or does the workshop's restriction not allow for this?

[wonkey_donkey]

When playing against your thallid deck wonkey, can the daze on scalding tongs not be paid with the mana left over from workshop? Or does the workshop's restriction not allow for this?

This mana may not be used to pay costs imposed after the spell is initially played, as with Power Sink and Nether Void. [WotC Rules Team 1995/10/18]
You can spend the mana on costs on the spell's text. [WotC Rules Team 1995/11/10]

Nope. The leftover mana from the workshop that you'd like to pay the daze cost with is not being used to play an artifact spell. The daze effect and casting cost of an artifact are separate.

Tom