will we ever see any SCG Power 9 turnaments in the west?

[Mateo]

When will we see any of the large Power 9 turnaments towards our neck of the woods? The type 1 scene here in CO, as well as other areas west of the Mississippi is blowing up. We have a lot of local shops here that hold single peice power turnaments, but to be able to have a full set up for grabs would be great. Driving 3 days is not an option for some of us, and I know I would love to be able to compete against some of the best in the world, and the only way to do that is to drive to the east coast, or to have SCG hold one of there Power 9 turnaments over here, and  I am sure that I am not the only one that feels the same way.

Get'em going out here and we can show everyone that the east coast is not the only place to play!!!

[Kowal]

It's entirely possible that SCG just doesn't have any particularly strong contacts in the west.  It's also expensive to ship the personnel and merchandise out that way.

[Hi-Val]

Also, the West is huge. A tournament in California can't pull in Coloradoans like one in Chicago can. Players in AZ or Utah would have a long way to go to get to Cali, where it would most likely be held. Maybe I'm talking outta my ass though. They most likely don't have the contacts and time, as Kowal said.

[Xman]

Also, the West is huge. A tournament in California can't pull in Coloradoans like one in Chicago can. Players in AZ or Utah would have a long way to go to get to Cali, where it would most likely be held. Maybe I'm talking outta my ass though. They most likely don't have the contacts and time, as Kowal said.

You obviously forgot about America's playground, Las Vegas, NV, which is realatively centrally located, with the option of other gaming after the tournament.

[Green Knight]

It would be so sweet to have a huge tournament near by. Vegas? I'm there!
Also Matt are you holding out on me, were are all these power tourneys? Stonebridge?

[jpmeyer]

Basically, SCG can drive people/merchandise to Chicago/Syracuse, but not to LA.

[Bram]

While we're at it, you suppose SCG could swing by over here, too? ;-)

[Green Knight]

Shoot Bram, may-as-well you seem to have about as good of a chance as we do here in Colorado...

[Dante]

Also, the West is huge. A tournament in California can't pull in Coloradoans like one in Chicago can. Players in AZ or Utah would have a long way to go to get to Cali, where it would most likely be held. Maybe I'm talking outta my ass though. They most likely don't have the contacts and time, as Kowal said.

You obviously forgot about America's playground, Las Vegas, NV, which is realatively centrally located, with the option of other gaming after the tournament.

Except that a good portion of the type 1 crowd is underage...  I tried organizing some stuff during SCG3 to go out to some bars or places, but like half of every group coming in was <21.

[M.Solymossy]

yeah dante that's why the legal drinking age need to be 18!!!   Ah who am i kidding, i still drink anyways, just not at bars haha

[HuntedWumpus]

I think SGC would be pleasantly surprised with how many people they would get if a tourney was to be held in Los Angeles. People would come from. . .

Los Angeles County
Orange County
San Diego County
San Francisco Bay Area
Sacramento and Valley Area
Las Vegas and Nevada
Probably Some from Arizona

And if the stakes were such I think they could easily pull as many folks as they do for a major east coast event.

[xrizzo]

Los Angeles County = Illinois
Orange County = Michigan
San Diego County = Wisconsin
San Francisco Bay Area = Ohio
Sacramento and Valley Area = Minnesota
Las Vegas and Nevada = Indiana
Probably Some from Arizona = Iowa

The funny thing is that each of the counties listed there have similar populations to each state in and around the chicago area.  (and potentially could produce a similar turnout)

Either Los Angeles or Las Vegas would be a great place.  Rather than people wasting 1-2 days driving, people can catch cheap flights to Vegas, play in the tourney, have some nice weather, and if you lose, you can go gamble.

There are a lot of East coast players, but everyone would benefit by at least holding a few tournaments out West.

[HuntedWumpus]

The funny thing is that each of the counties listed there have similar populations to each state in and around the chicago area. (and potentially could produce a similar turnout)

He makes a very valid and true statement here. Now I realize states are a lot larger in the west and interstate travels can be longer but people can still drive, and we have people that continually drive long distances for small tourneys. I am positive if SCG were to have a tourney out here it would be huge. Consider this.

If California were to separate from the United States, it would be the 5th largest economy in the world.

If Los Angeles COUNTY were to separate from the United States, it would be the 9th largest economy in the world.

We may be a ways away from you folks on the east coast, but we have our crap together.

Now I also realize that it would be a very long trip for SCG to bring its stuff out here, but if they don't want to make the trip then perhaps Pete over at SCG should rephrase himself a bit. I quote

Today, Star City Events is proud to introduce the world’s first high-profile, competitive Vintage tournament circuit; The Star City "Power Nine" Tournament Series!

The east coasts first . . . would be slightly more accurate, even though it is the "worlds first" by being the first in the world.

[Mateo]

It would be so sweet to have a huge tournament near by. Vegas? I'm there!
Also Matt are you holding out on me, were are all these power tourneys? Stonebridge?

Yes at Stonbridge, and we are working with another shop for power here locally. I know Denver, CO is centrally located and would be a great place to see a LARGE Type 1 event. If SCG would look at the area they would see a very large turn out. The seen here is not small by no means and we have some of the best players in the country, BOB, JIM (who took 6th at Chi - town), ect... Bottom line, we would see people come from the east and west, and there is nothing better than a rocky mountain backdrop to drop bombs on your opponent!!!    

Bigass red text is for mods. I appriate the humorous tone of what was said, so I kept the huge font, but gave it a different color. - Bram

[Godder]

If you want a massive tournament on the West Coast that much, try running it yourself, or find a shop that will consider it... This isn't meant to be rude, or anything, it's just something to consider - if you want something, and it's not being provided, consider providing it yourself.

In any case, the approximate cost of the P9, assuming reasonable deals can be found courtesy of E-Bay, seems to be around US$3000 (probably a bit less, but add on shipping etc...). At $30 per player, the T.O. needs 100 people just to pay for the prizes. Add on somewhere around $200 for a venue (I'm probably underestimating there), and around $200 for staff, and you're talking some serious cash here. If we make it easy on ourselves and round to $3600 (sundry expenses included), then someone needs 120 entries @$30 each to make it viable. Things like dealing and running a canteen will help with expenses, but that's what this sort of thing takes.

If someone wants to put up that kind of money, by all means, and all the best to whomever it is, but having it fail is bad times, as the T.O. can easily lose $1000+ on something like that if the turnout is 80 instead of 120 (for example).

[Bulls on Parade]

How about you prove to SCG that they can make money off such a tournament by getting something together on your own first. If it's successful, don't you think that will help your case quite a bit? Sure you can't have one centralized tournament and expect the tournout of an SCG P9 event, but why not talk to someone off the boards from each of these major locations and see if you can get them to organize something small in their area, record the turnouts of each event, and estimate how many people you think you could muster.

Personally, I'm really surprised they didn't choose to host at least one event in Boston.

[Mateo]

If you want a massive tournament on the West Coast that much, try running it yourself, or find a shop that will consider it... This isn't meant to be rude, or anything, it's just something to consider - if you want something, and it's not being provided, consider providing it yourself.

In any case, the approximate cost of the P9, assuming reasonable deals can be found courtesy of E-Bay, seems to be around US$3000 (probably a bit less, but add on shipping etc...). At $30 per player, the T.O. needs 100 people just to pay for the prizes. Add on somewhere around $200 for a venue (I'm probably underestimating there), and around $200 for staff, and you're talking some serious cash here. If we make it easy on ourselves and round to $3600 (sundry expenses included), then someone needs 120 entries @$30 each to make it viable. Things like dealing and running a canteen will help with expenses, but that's what this sort of thing takes.

If someone wants to put up that kind of money, by all means, and all the best to whomever it is, but having it fail is bad times, as the T.O. can easily lose $1000+ on something like that if the turnout is 80 instead of 120 (for example).

Your explanation is exactly why we need to have SCG handle it, the following that they bring will make it successfull, as well as I know I do not have 3,000 to 5,000 to throw around to host a turnament.

[Zherbus]

I think SGC would be pleasantly surprised with how many people they would get if a tourney was to be held in Los Angeles. People would come from. . .

Los Angeles County
Orange County
San Diego County
San Francisco Bay Area
Sacramento and Valley Area
Las Vegas and Nevada
Probably Some from Arizona

And if the stakes were such I think they could easily pull as many folks as they do for a major east coast event.

If they look at tournament results and see 15-25 man tournaments in those areas, you can probably do the math on why they wouldn't be tripping over themselves to spend the money on travel/shipping of product to get out there. I know you guys had Worlds, but keep in mind that many of those players weren't there for Type 1 alone.

[Godder]

That's the fun part of having SCG run stuff - the premium they extract for their professional services. That's neither good nor bad, but bear in mind that $3600 is for Joe T.O. to step in. SCG rolling in with a T.O. and judging/other staff (at least 3 people) for two nights (i.e. arrive the day before and leave the day after), plus travel costs for said staff, and suddenly you're looking at another few hundred to find from somewhere...

There's another thorn as well, in that while the cost price of the P9, to SCG, is likely to be lower than the ~$3000 E-Bay would require (more like $2000 - $2500, one suspects, and possibly less), they could just stay home and sell heavily played versions for $3500 (that's the sum total of their current, Heavily Played, prices on SCG - note that Heavily Played P9 are mostly sold out!) and more for better versions ($4150 for Slightly Played).

The upshot, then, is that for SCG to come and run it in L.A. (say) would require that total revenue* for the trip is $5500+, and more if some Slightly Played cards are in the prize pool ($6000+). Obviously they can make quite a bit of cash with side events and buying/selling/trading singles (and a canteen of sorts, if they do those), but just to keep up with Joe T.O., they need to collect an extra $2000+. While not all of that would come from entry fees, that's still quite the gamble.

*I'm defining the term 'Revenue' as the sum of entry fees and profit from general dealing activities.

[Saucemaster]

Look, I just moved from the West Coast to the East.  The difference in the level of interest shown in Type 1 here is staggering.  On almost any given weekend (and this is the "slow season" for T1) in the next month or two, I can attend at least a Mox tournament.  These tournaments regularly draw larger attendance than anything I've ever played at in California, even when C&J's was really hopping the summer before last.  The only tournaments I know of that got attendance numbers large enough to justify SCG running a P9 tournament were side events held at PTs or GPs, and then the draw wasn't the T1, it was the main tournament.  The Vintage side events were just convenient and fun.

That's the real problem, as I see it.  As a couple other people have pointed out, right now, anyone putting on a P9 tournament on the West Coast is taking a huge chance, because there's no indication that they'll get anywhere near enough people to show up to recoup their costs.  Those players who DO play T1 regularly on the West Coast are certainly of comparable skill, but there just plain aren't as many of them.  Las Vegas and Los Angeles might work, but again, there's not enough demonstrated interest to entice anyone to start a P9 tournament there.  The only way to address this is to get tournaments started that regularly draw 50+ players and demonstrate to any store/TO/other interested party that they won't lose a couple thousand dollars by holding this kind of tournament.

[TracerBullet]

Sadly, I think Zherbus is frightfully correct.  As much I as I love our scene and players, there simply aren't as many of us as there are back east.  Additionally, the Magic scene on the whole is infinitely smaller than it is back East, as there really aren't any stores left in Southern California, and even the PTQs and Regionals don't draw near the same crowds as they used to or do on the East Coast.  People out here are by and large more interested in other things.  That's not to say that we don't have a very dedicated and talented player base.  Rather, that base is just smaller than what you find out there.


That being said, I really have considered going for a major venue tournement, something on par with what C&J's put up for the Worlds' Side Event.  It's something that, for the moment, remains on the back burner, but when summer rolls around again, could become a very real possibility.

Pat

[GMontag]

I think everyone is overlooking a big difference when comparing the turnout of west coast tournaments to east coast ones. That difference is the fact that there a lot more stores holding regular power tournaments within reasonable driving distance of any given point. A person on the east coast may have five different store that he or she can drive to, a person on the west coast is lucky if he or she has two.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that if you compare a single store in the east to a single store in the west, you find the frequency of power tournaments to be approximately equal. It is just the close proximity of many stores that allows people to go to more tournaments than they could in the east. My point is that the larger attendance of tournaments in the east is not just more people going to tournaments, but also people going to more tournaments. That makes the difference between player bases in the east and west appear to be larger than it really is.