Rector Trix, 2004

[Wollblad]

Seal of Cleansing can't be pitched to Force of Will and you'll never search for Seal of Cleansing with an Academy Rector. So it isn't superior.

Contrary to the Tendrils version, you are not short on blue spells to pith to FoW and the last claim is simply not true, I do it frequently.

[VGB]

That kind of play should not be helping much, as you are expending {W}, a Rector, and a flashbacked Therapy just to deal with your opponent's problem permanent.  I assume you fetch Seal to deal with Chalice/Trinisphere/Sphere of Resistance, or some such, in which case they often have Welder to bring it right back in.

Does Seal actually turn these games around for you?  I cannot envision a single scenario where you wouldn't rather fetch Bargain, or at the least Necro or Illusions - or if you have teched out your sideboard, things such as The Abyss or Form of the Dragon.

I've played with Seal, and while it was useful to hardcast, I don't think I ever won a game where I fetched it (barring I had already Donated Illusions).

[effang]

i fail to see how form of the dragon helps is a viable SB option for any metagame.

is it mostly used against control? (which you should be winning?) obviously i'm not understanding it correctly, because it seems as if it is a dangerous play against any life damage combo, any workshop fat, any aggro control decks...etc.

[VGB]

i fail to see how form of the dragon helps is a viable SB option for any metagame.

is it mostly used against control? (which you should be winning?) obviously i'm not understanding it correctly, because it seems as if it is a dangerous play against any life damage combo, any workshop fat, any aggro control decks...etc.

It's quite useful against Fish, as it pings off all their men except for Factories and Claves, and the Factories won't be able to attack.

Ever since Keeper started playing Exalted, it has become a lot better in that matchup.

It was always most useful against Stax/MUD, though, as it simply won the game by itself if they had the board soft-locked and you expended every last resource you had (such as Vault, Lotus, Ritual) in order to resolve Rector.  Their only way to deal at that point is by ramping up Smokestack, or via Trike recursion.

It's also gold against any deck without direct damage and fliers such as Tog (non-Fling version), as it forces them to deal with Form in the next 4 turns or die.

Form also has synergy with the deck, in that it gains life for Necro/Bargain, and kills off extra Rectors.

I'm not saying it's the greatest, but it is randomly awesome, and a win condition/life-gainer/source of removal in and of itself.

[andrewpate]

Sorry about the whole Mystical Tutor for Future Sight thing; obviously I was just trying to type the word "tutor" and was looking at the quote I was using that talked about Mystical.

Anyway, the thing about Form of the Dragon is its Moat effect.  "Workshop fat" really can't deal much direct damage, and it rarely has flyers.  Their best bet is basically to burn out a Triskelion and then Weld it back in, and hopefully you can win before they set that up.  It is also good against Fish, since their flyers plink away for 1 at a time and they would need 3 Grim Lavamancers to kill you.  Since you can nuke one dude every turn, setting up two Lavamancers and a Spiketail Hatchling at once should prove quite difficult for them.  A few builds do have Fire/Ice, but setting up 5 to the dome all at once when they can't attack with 3/4 of their dudes is still pretty tough.

@Rico Suave
You make some good points on Future Sight, and you certainly reveal some key differences between our play styles with the deck.  When I am playing, I have something of a "Yawgmoth's Bargain in play, at the earliest oppurtunity, by any means necessary" attitude.  I would do things like Demonic Tutor for a Black Lotus to get the last mana I need to cast Rector, and I wasn't really focusing on the Future Sight very much.  I will try a few more games when I get the chance with some of the plays you suggested in mind.  I am certainly much more conducive to using it now, although I'm not a big fan, yet.  I still wish that there were one more enchantment to "just win" like Bargain and Necropotence.  FS is, however, starting to look like the best bet in its slot.

[Rico Suave]

I think Mox Diamond will always be a point of contention in Rector, but not so much Duress.

Whether or not one includes Duress might be relegated to a meta consideration, but is there really a deck that it isn't great against?

I've played with and without Diamond, and although there were scant times it made me mulligan, it usually earned the spot as it added more insurance to Bargain.  Of course Chrome Mox is good in that situation as well, but Diamond is slightly better as it always provides the color you need.

As for Chain of Vapor vs. Rushing River, since Chalice for 1 hoses the deck (albeit not nearly as badly as it does a Tendrils build), and Chain costs the same under Trinisphere, I'd think that having the more flexible bounce would make this an easy decision.  The only thing it isn't as great at doing is being the virtual self Hurkyl's, which I have honestly never done with Chain.  As this isn't a Tendrils build, that is another nod to River.

By the way, I think GotRealLucky knows what he's talking about, Rico.

If you want to include Mox Diamond, by all means do so.  For me, I have no problems winning post-Bargain and Mox Diamond will make you mulligan more than you already are.  

What was I trying to fix again?  Consistency.  I think excluding Mox Diamond is a good place to start.

But wait, Mox Diamond is in the 1st place deck of that top8 you so kindly pointed out.  I must be nuts to disagree with a world champion who took 1st, but I laugh because he was using my personal exact list.  I used Mox Diamond for a while myself, until I discovered I was merely using it as a crutch.  Taking it out actually improved my playing.

Of course Duress is a great card, and I never said it was bad.  The problem comes, how many cards can you fit in a deck?  I guess if I had a spare 10 cards I'd fit in Duress, Balance, Tinker, and plenty of other cards.  The ratio of protection:business in the olds builds is way too high though, and the deck fizzles too much.  Using Duress only promotes your deck randomly collapsing in on itself, which was arguably it's greatest weakness until now.  A deck with lots of protection but nothing worth protecting goes nowhere.

If you want to run Rushing River or Echoing Truth, then run them.  How often does Chalice set at 1 come up first game?  Compare that number to the amount of Null Rods, Wastelands, and Crucibles.  Perhaps you just see a lot more maindeck Chalices than I do.  

I don't see why you should be bothered, it's just a matter of personal preference. It's not that I like Duress that much but I like Time Twister and Mystical Tutor even less in this deck. Future Sight might be good, I never played with it, but I wasn't happy with Twister and Mystical when I played this deck (quite some time ago).

If it was a matter of personal preference, I wouldn't of typed up a huge post to explain that the entire approach of this deck is deck is completely different from before, and that Duress really does not belong anymore for several reasons.  

I love Duress.  I really wish I could use it.  In fact, I am probably going to use some in my SB soon.  Unfortunately Mystical Tutor and Timetwister help to fill the lack of business spells, and so they get the nod instead.  

As soon as you cut Mystical Tutor, you see the following cards less:
-Ancestral Recall
-Time Walk
-Yawgmoth's Will
-Demonic Tutor
-Chain of Vapor (or whatever removal you run)
-Donate
-Cabal Therapy

Add Timetwister too.  I think the fact it finds numerous combo pieces (it IS a must counter if you have Rector) and game-breaking spells will solidify Mystical's use over Duress.

Let me explain Timetwister in the deck.  Originally it was used in the SB (as you can see in Tom's decklist).  This is because suicide - while basically extinct now - was popular during that time and it was actually a scary match.  I learned in my Keeper playing that Mystical/Vamp for Timetwister will trump suicide.  So taking this experience to Trix, I boarded Timetwister in against suicide.  What Timetwister does is not only trumps suicide's discard, but also it's mana denial.  So I tried to apply this to my other problematic matches, such as Fish.  Timetwister also started winning games for me in that match, and surprisingly it also does so against other mana denial decks such as Stax.  

That is why it's maindecked now.  It helps the deck beat mana denial, and mana denial was the 2nd biggest problem next to consistency.  

I think the real question becomes what does Duress do for this deck that it can't already do well enough?  

I do think that Mox Diamond is quite good, probably better than one of the off colour Moxen. In the games I played with the deck I really liked it. It's way easier to win with Mox Diamond in the deck. Time Walk and Academy are great cards but it's not always possible to play them in the same turn the Bargain comes into play. In the early game it's not always great but you do play a 3 colour deck so it is quite good sometimes.

I think the reason you need Mox Diamond so much is because you're not using Mystical Tutor.  Mystical for Time Walk when you're going off and you'll accomplish a lot more than you would with Diamond.  

Isn't Seal of Cleansing superior to all blue bounce spells there are? There are very few creatures that you want to bounce and Seal can be found by Rector.

Firstly, it's sorcery speed.  That means you can't sneak it past Tangle Wire/Smokestack.  A Welder also simply recurses whatever it is you destroyed, whereas Welder can't put it into play if it's bounced.

Secondly, it's not blue.  Pitching to Force is definitely clutch.  The last thing you want to do is pitch your only business spell to Force and be stuck with a Seal of Cleansing as your only spell...

Seal was in the first version of the deck.  Then it quickly got switched to Hoodwink to pitch to Force, then went to Rushing River because of the ability to hit 2 things.  Then Chain of Vapor was printed, and that's all she wrote.

[Mikey]

I feel pretty ignored here...

But here is my opinions:

I agree that Chain of vapor is much better that seal of cleansing. Chain stops Oath too, while it can't backfire on you. You have almost no pernaments worthy to bounce (except perhaps a illusion).

I think Death Wish may be worth thinking of. It can get you any cards that you might be needing. Have played so many times against workshop players who had activated their Jester's caps to remove my donates. Also, having a Tendril SB so you can wish for a storm based kill is also sometimes useful. I cut the Timetwister for it.

Mox Diamond is useless in this deck in my opinion. It is a combo deck all right, but you have too few lands in the deck. Only time you may make good use of it is when you bargin and then the game is favoring you by 99% when you have a bargin anyway.

I really liked the Form of the Dragon. Gives a couple of wins againt many aggro decks, but I think I would still have won 90% of these games if I went for Bargin.

[cophos]

Would this deck be playable with only 5 Powercards? ( Recall, Lotus, 3 Moxen proxed, ) ?
I'm playing Deathlong with 6 Powercards at this moment, but would trix just be more consistant although I would play it only with 5 Powercards? I tested a bit and I felt pretty comfortable with it. Force of Will and Basic Lands are just great. Thanx for your help.

[Mikey]

Would this deck be playable with only 5 Powercards? ( Recall, Lotus, 3 Moxen proxed, ) ?

It will work, but the deck will lose much of it's power. Timetwister is almost a must in this deck (ok, sometimes windfall is better) and not running a full set of moxes makes you lose a lot tempo. Some other combo decks (like Doomsday) will be more suitable for budget play.

[Rico Suave]

If I were to play the deck with 5 proxy, I would proxy Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Mox Sapphire, and Mox Jet.

I would then do the following:

-1 Timetwister
-1 Mox Ruby
-1 Mox Emerald
-1 Mox Pearl

+1 Balance
+1 Mox Diamond
+1 Tundra
+1 Chrome Mox

You can cut Timetwister and be fine.  Just add Balance, and keep in mind you have it since you have a number of ways to find it and it comes in handy.

You absolutely need Time Walk, even over having a 3rd Mox.  Without Walk, Bargain would be a lot less stable.  

And of course, there's the obligatory it won't perform as well as having real Moxen. :)

I think Death Wish may be worth thinking of. It can get you any cards that you might be needing. Have played so many times against workshop players who had activated their Jester's caps to remove my donates. Also, having a Tendril SB so you can wish for a storm based kill is also sometimes useful. I cut the Timetwister for it.

I agree with most of your thoughts except this.

Death Wish eats up a lot of life that should go to Bargain, and it eats up a lot of tempo.  This is very much a tempo-oriented deck, and Death Wish isn't a good card at all until after you get Bargain out.

If you have issues with Jester's Cap keep in mind that it is a SB card a vast majority of the time.  If you are afraid your opponent will bring it in and that you'll give them enough time to cast and activate it, just board in Tinker-Colossus and Form of the Dragon.  You can then get Capped and still win without having to resort to Rector beats or Donating Mana Crypt (it happens).

You could even SB Negators, since opening with multiple permanents and Negator against Stax can be surprisingly effective.  Negators are also very nice against the occassional mono-U deck too.

There are many different ways to SB is what I'm pointing out.  Be creative.  I may have even hidden some of my tech from the public eye. ;P

[cophos]

Thanx guy's. As I said, I play a 6 Powercards version of deathlong, the deck is pretty good, but I want more Disruption and a better manabase.
The newer Moxes are a sure inclusion and for the other cards I'll play Balnce / Stuff, or some Duress' .

[ruken]

Bleh, had a nice reply all typed up and then the forum logged me out.

Think of Rector as a Tinker for enchantments.  There are lots of enchantments that could be fetched toolbox-style to win a game.  Form of the Dragon (ugh), Primal Order, Ancient Runes, Yawgmoth's Bargain, Control Magic, Power Artifact, Animate Dead, Ground Seal, Stasis.  All sorts of potential there, really.  I'm sure there are a dozen more potentially game-winning enchantments that could fight for a spot in the deck, including some potentially devastating combinations.

Kevin

[Rico Suave]

I've done a lot of looking at enchantments to Rector out, and I can assure you that any toolbox type card you'd want is not going to satisfy what you want it to do.

There will be a lot of situations where you'll wonder "hey, I could Rector out Control Magic on his Darksteel Colossus and use it against him!"  Don't do it.  Just get Bargain and win.  The only time you should get something other than Bargain is when you absolutely know Bargain can't win you the game (like, if your opponent plays Chains of Mephistopheles).

You could theoretically add a whole toolbox of reactive Rectorable enchantments.  Then you'd have answers to many situations and you'd probably win a few games by Control Magic on a large creature and your opponent can't answer it.  

The problem with that line of thought is that you're playing it like a Toolbox deck.  It's not.  It's a combo deck.  There is no reason to find an answer to your opponent's strategy when you can just ignore their strategy, Rector out Bargain, and win.

[cophos]

Ok, I tested the deck a bit and saw some things.
- Timewak's really great. The additional landdrop gives you the manaadvantage which would the mox give, but the addtional card's just broken.
- Basisc Lands are very good in this deck. I wouldn't play it without. They really improve the manabase and you shouldn't have too much problems finding them. ( Fetchlands et cetera ... )
- Why isn't there a Demonic Consultation in the starting decklist? Of course there are many important one-off's, but to find the missing Donate, Ritual or something, it's just perfect.

[strick09]

I've been working on a Legacy build with Mike Bomholt ("bomholmm") from the Oxford Ohio crew (friend of Doug "Hi-Val" and Roland "Changster"). There's some tech in it that I think has the potential to be pretty vicious in the Type 1 build.

(paraphrased card text)

Diabolic Intent  
1B Sorcery
As an additional cost to Diabolic Intent, sacrifice a creature. Search your library for a card and put it into your hand.

Seal of Removal
U Enchantment
Sacrifice ~this~: Return target permanent to its owners hand.

I think the ramifications of these cards should be obvious. Firstly, Diabolic Intent gives you an additional outlet for sacrificing the Rector early. certainly Cabal Therapy is far superior in terms of safety, but for blitzing out a win against a combo deck, for example, imagine this play:

Play Rector, Play Diabolic Intent, sacing rector to find Illusions, use Intent's ability to find Donate, cast Donate. Win.

Mike and I had previously tried Plunge into Darkness also, but after a couple nasty run-ins with removing my win conditions from the game and losing in an agonizing concession, Diabolic Intent (the original selection) is far superior.

Much like Cabal Therapy, the sacrificing is a COST meaning even if they counter the spell itself, you still get the enchantment. The downside is that due to stack triggers, you have to tutor your enchantment first before the Intent resolves (so you won't know if they are going to counter the Intent when you go to fetch your enchantment: "Do I get the Bargain or the Illusions?") It nets you two cards with one spell, and I believe it would help to speed up the combo.

For Seal of Removal: I like it better than Chain of Vapor for one reason: it's an enchantment. It costs the same as chain of vapor, but if they drop a chalice for 1 (or 2) you can always tutor it out with a Rector if you HAVE to (assuming you don't want to just wait until they can't pay the upkeep) and it BOUNCES the illusions, meaning that if that loss of 20 life doesn't kill them, you can always cast it again and try to win. And it's a blue spell, so it's pitchable.

Also, as an alternate win condition:
Nefarious Lich
BBBB
If you would be dealt damage, remove that many cards in your graveyard from the game instead. If you can't, you lose the game.
If you would gain life, draw that many cards instead.
When Nefarious Lich leaves play, you lose the game.

Donating the Lich: it REQUIRES you have a way to remove the lich in order to win (it doesn't have a self-removing ability like cumulative upkeep) however it ignores life-gain if that ever became an issue. This is kind of an afterthought, it was selected as an alternate win for the Legacy format, where some people do indeed play life-gain. I felt it was worth mentioning.

I'm not sure how many Diabolic Intent's would be desirable in the deck, and I certainly don't think they are a *replacement* for Cabal Therapy-- But I do think they warrant consideration for inclusion.

[Negator13]

Diabolic Intent seems way too narrow, you only run 4 creatures, and they cost 4 mana so you're going to have dead DI's in hand alot.

Also, Seal of Removal reads "sac ~this~: Return target creature to its owners hand.

[bomholmm]

Yeah Intent doesn't make a lot of sense for the type 1 build.  We were testing it in 1.5 because you don't have necro and bargain and you also don't have good tutors. One of our 1.5 builds was running stormscape familiar as an additional accelerant and sac outlet for intent.  But thats 1.5 so I'll post a list in the 1.5 forum and leave it at that.

[strick09]

re: Seal of Removal
guess I should have RTFCP, eh? oops...

re: DI
hmm.... good point -- would it be viable as a 1-of? It just seems to have good synergy with rector.

[cophos]

re: Seal of Removal
guess I should have RTFCP, eh? oops...

re: DI
hmm.... good point -- would it be viable as a 1-of? It just seems to have good synergy with rector.

It is just very random. Only 4 creatures, only one DI. First: You don't have that much free slots in the maindeck. Second: DI does just nothing without a rector, Therapy does. Tutoring's nice, but if the rector dies, just find bargain ( or Plan B, Necropotence or whatever,) and win. Less randomness > some random, unnessecary tutoring.