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Author Topic: Keeper of the Rack  (Read 1071 times)
magus888
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progtologist
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« on: December 08, 2004, 05:58:48 pm »

I've always loved the mechanic of The Rack, and I'd like if WotC would bring it back. It could look somewaht like this:

Keeper of the Rack B
Creature- Human Cleric
1/1
Trample
When Keeper of the Rack comes into play choose target opponent.
Keeper of the vault gets +1/+1 for each card fewer than three in target opponent's hand. If at any time target opponent has greater than three cards in his or her hand, sacrifice Keeper of the Rack.  

This card could be really good, but I think it has a big enough setback that it isn't too broken.

New Wording:

Keeper of the Vise B
Creature- Human Cleric
1/1
Trample
When Keeper of the Vise comes into play choose target opponent.
Keeper of the Vise gets +X/+X, where X is the number of cards in target opponent's hand exceeding 4. At end of turn, if target opponent has fewer than 4 cards in his/her hand, sacrifice Keeper of the Vise
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Kobolds-clamp is tier 1, right?
Ephraim
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LordZakath
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2004, 06:44:30 pm »

I'm pretty sure that this card isn't very good at all. Yes, it's cheap and yes it could be a 4/4 creature. However, the fact that it is cheap is kind of irrelevant. You never want to cast this first turn, since it almost certainly results in it being sacrificed immediately. Although you can play it on the cheap whenever your opponent has three or fewer cards in his or her hand (more like two or fewer, since all your opponent has to do is draw up to four to kill this), recall that it is typically a very bad thing for a player to have few cards in their hand. Unless you're playing this with discard (an incredibly outmoded strategy), it is seldom going to do much at all (note that it is Black Vise and not The Rack that is restricted.) Now, if this were "Keeper of the Vise" and everything that entails instead of "Keeper of the Rack", I'd agree that it's probably an excellent card, since it would then encourage your opponent to enter a state of weakness (few cards in hand.)
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Mixing Mike
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2004, 07:21:05 pm »

Agreed, I'd much rather see this acting like a Vise than Rack.  

Now the question becomes; is this card is to strong in Constructed?
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Zelc
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2004, 10:49:00 pm »

I could easily see this:

Keeper of the Vise
B
Creature - Human Cleric
0/0
Keeper of the Vise gets +X/+X, where X is the number of cards in your opponent's hand minus four.
Trample

Going first against a G/x deck, this will probably be a 3/3 for turn 2, a 2/2  that gets chumped by Sakura-Tribe Elder turn 3, and a 1/1 that's eaten by Viridian Shaman or Eternal Witness turn 4.  This means it will probably only do about 4 or 5 damage before dying, and it'll only be good on turn 1/2.  If your opponent is playing Freshmaker, it has a good chance of dying to a Magma Jet turn 2.  Against Affinity, it dies an obviously horrible death.  This may be too good against Mono-U, but I just don't see it working too well against anything else.  

Maybe if it starts off being a 1/1 or a 0/1?  In that case, it could be worded:
If your opponent has at least 4 cards in his or her hand, Keeper of the Vise gets +X/+X, where X is the number of cards in your opponent's hand minus four.
If your opponent has less than 4 cards in his or her hand, Keeper of the Vise gets -X/-X, where X is four minus the number of cards in your opponent's hand.
This wording also removes the possibility of enchantments or equipment keeping it alive when the number of cards in an opponent's hand drops below 3/4.
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Nefarias
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2004, 12:34:57 am »

I don't know about it costing only B. I have no basis of opinion for Type 2, so I'll assume your analysis is correct, but it looks to raise a red flag for Type 1.

Admittedly, I wasn't around for 4x Black Vise, so I could be entirely wrong, but against decks that Black Vise was good against (i.e. Control), this seems to be practically the same thing. There are unlikely to have blockers for what is likely to be a 4/4, and it may be difficult (and certainly undesirable), to get their hand down to a reasonable size. Meanwhile, this thing is beating hard for two-three turns or more. The two differences are the commitment to black and the fact that creatures are a bit easier to remove, but I don't think that's a big enough hindrance to keep it at B. It would probably only take one more mana to make it good but not too good, imo.
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Necrologia
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RPZ85
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2004, 01:02:24 am »

The reason vise was good was that it fit in every deck, and dropped on turn 1 would do a minimum of 3 damage to the opponent. This fits only in black decks, and gives the opponent at least 1 turn to drop some cards. It actually seems pretty fair to me, as a 3/3 really isn't that scary.
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magus888
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progtologist
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2004, 10:19:05 am »

What suggestions do you have for this card's flavor text?
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Kobolds-clamp is tier 1, right?
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