Advice on Gro-A-Tog.

[erictehfatz0r]

Alright guys, I know you've seen about a gagillion of these, but this one's easier than most. Alright, at my local store, at the last Mox tournament, the top 8 looked like this:

1st: 5/3
2nd: Oath
3rd: Oath
4th-5th: 5/3
6-7th: Oath
8th: 2-land Belcher

For the record, all of the top8 was powered, proxied or not.

With that in mind, I wanted to build a deck that could handle both Oath and 5/3, and also being able to beat the random aggro that's sure to be there (everyone can't be cool, there has to be those 3 scrubby kids, amiright?) I did a little brainstorming, and came up with a GAT build that I find to be alright.

Mana Base:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Island
2 Swamp
R Mox Sapphire (Proxy)
R Mox Jet (Proxy)
R Black Lotus (Proxy)

d00dz0r:
4 Quirion Dryad
3 Waterfront Bouncer
2 Psychatog

Drawing Capabilities:
4 Serum Visions
3 Night's Whisper
R Ancestral Recall (Proxy)
2 Cunning Wish
R Gush

Protection/Counters:
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
3 Daze
3 Mana Leak

Tutalage:
R Demonic Tutor
R Vampiric Tutor
R Mystical Tutor

General b0rkenness:
R Yawgmoth's Will
R Necropotence
R Fastbond
R Time Walk (Proxy)

Sideboard:
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Energy Flux
3 Ground Seal
1 Smother
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Coffin Purge
1 Lim Dul's Vault
1 Snuff Out
1 Oxidize

The cards I am uncomfortable about are Mana Leak and Necropotence. Too often I'd be in the LOW digits (<5) with Necro out, and coupling that with Night's Whisper, Fastbond and Delta and it adds up. Also, it seems like the 2cc slot is cluttered up, with Leak, Dryad, Bouncer, Demonic, Time Walk, and Whisper. I want to clean that up a lot.

So What do you guys think? Would it be a better idea to scratch Game 1 from Oath and focus more on how to beat 5/3? or should I focus on beating 5/3 post board? Any and all suggestions are greatly Appreciated. I have less than a month to test, so I've got to get it all ironed out very soon.

[Yames]

I know I'm going to kick myself for saying this but have you thought about playing Mono Red?  The reason I ask is because in a good strong Meta game no one really comes prepared for it.  I was at a tourney in Toronto last Sunday where 2 kids playing it made it to the top 8.  It was awful!  I was playing Hulk Smash to a 3-1-0 record I just needed to beat 1 more person to top 8.  I ended up playing mono red kid.  Dou you have any idea how bad it feels to loose to random red?  It helped that he had 4 Red elemental blast and at least 2 pyroblast MAIN.  It's hard to keep a tog on the table, or say NO to burn when he has a mitt full of 1 casting cost counter spells.  Any ways that’s my 2 cents.  Keep them guessing.
Or you could just play B/U/G Hulk Smash.  Just make sure you have a few extra Deeds in your SB.

Yep kicking myself already~

[erictehfatz0r]

Although mono red might be good, i don't think it really has ANY way of dealing with Oath, Oath creatures, or anything. Rack 'n' Ruin is good vs. Workshops, but i dunno if that'd be the right call here.

[VGB]

RuG Madness can easily tromp all over 5/3 with Artifact mutation, and with the white splash for StP and Ray of Revelation it can handle Oath pretty easily also.

Or you could just play TPS :/

[I Against I]

Are you playing Ground Seal in the SB just to deal with Welders, or are you concerned with Dragon as well?  (I'm asking because you have 3 BEB and Snuff Out which also combat Dragon)  If you switch it with Engineered Plague you have a solution to both pesky Welders and Spirit tokens.

Also, while Energy Flux is devastating against Workshop Prison decks, it's not as good against 5/3  (I've never actually played Flux against 5/3, but I've read several people give this opinion on the forums)  You may want to find another solution to your artifact woes.  Also, no Berserk in the SB?    
I would think this would be handy against Workshop Aggro, and those Agrro scrubs that you want to beat too.  

Good luck with the deck.

[andrewpate]

Yeah, TPS, or I was going to suggest Doomsday.  The Workshop-and-Oath metagame is exactly what everyone was forecasting for SCGIII, and Smmenen chose Doomsday for that metagame--with the results to show the wisdom of the choice.  If you're comfortable with the deck that could be good, but that's a big if (it's hard to use).  TPS is a bit more use-friendly.

Could you be a bit more clear on why you thought GAT would be good for this?  That might give us some insight into what sort of advice you're looking for.

[God_Campbell]

Well why not try out B/U/r tog lists that have been poping up in Euope,
They are testing sacratog witrh mr teeth to very good results.
It might be more up your alley as i feel gat will never be the same after gush got the axe.

[erictehfatz0r]

Thank you guys so much for all the input, it's really going to help me win this sapphire. On the note of playing combo, I was really thinking of playing that, but since it's on Jan 15, testing, goldfishing and figuring out the internetworks of the decks seems like a really hard challenge. To be honest, If I don't win this, I'm done with Magic forever, as I sold all my cards to get power, and this is really one of my only shots, being 16 and non-drivers-lisenced and all.

Also, the reason why I chose GAT as my deck of choice is three-fold:

1) I've played with the deck moreso than other decks.

2) I really wanted a deck that could win the early game, but still have enough steam to get you in the late game too.

3) This is really all I could build, given that I have but a few select cards to choose from. A good deal of this deck is on borrowed time. It's not that I can't get the cards to play other decks, I just don't have the time to (or the money), and I strictly refuse to pay more than $20 for one card. Unless it's power

As for the SB, do you think that 3 Flux, 3 Seal, 3 BEB is too much for Workshop decks?

That can also carry over into Dragon, but I was the only person up there who played it, so I don't think it'll show. I refuse to play that deck because of all the Enchant./Grave Hate that's being splashed from WS and Oath at the store. The winning deck had 3 Seal of Cleansing MD, along with 3 T. Crypt in the board. Rough Times.

Again, thank you so much to those who posted, your thoughts are really appreciated.

EDIT: God_Campell, I would play UB/r if I had the Volcanics. But since I have 4 Trops instead, look what I'm playing.

[Marton]

i dont understand why people post the exact same threads on 2 different sites. You posted the exact same thread over starcitygames forums.

If you sell everything for power, then say youre gonna quit magic if you dont win the tournament, well, ill be honest with you. I don't believe this is the way to do things. You want to win a mox sapphire but you're not willing to put the financial investment for it. Sure you can borrow some cards, but if you can't get those cards for the tournament well you're pretty much screwed.

If you're unwilling to spend 20$ or more for a card, then I seriously wonder why you play type 1. With the price of double lands going up, I wonder how you expect to get the cards you need. If you're so unwilling to pay for cards then why do a big shot to win a mox sapphire? I'm guessing the plan is to sell it/trade it back, but considering your desire for power card it looks like it will just add to your power collection while youre still stuck with < 20$ cards.

I'll leave on a positive note I wish you the best of luck on the tournament. If you can somehow get GAT to top 1 in a big tourney then I guess you will wholeheartedly deserve the mox.

[erictehfatz0r]

Marton, I need as much input as I can get on this deck. I also don't really need a lecture on my not willing to put forth money. If I do well, I will continue my Magical Gathering, and if not, well, I can try and poop out a Skate Video. I do appreciate you encouraging me to do good. I will really try. If this really does work, I'm just going to add the Mox to the deck and continue doing what I'm doing. I believe that this is the best way to acheive my goal of getting power.

[God_Campbell]

ya that was the same reason i played bug sicne i had no access to volcs but now i have 4 volcs[2 fbb] so i switched  to slaver to good results.
but good luck with the sapphire and grow shood be a good chocie to get ya the power.

[erictehfatz0r]

Thanks a lot. It's ok if I get 2nd too because 2nd is 2 Volcanic Islands. Then I can start playing UBr or possibly making a new deck, I dunno.  Is it worth it to try and find any Cranial Extractions or no? They seem really good against some decks, but the cost is insane. Should I pursue them? Also, is 7-8 cards siding in against WS too much? What should I cut from the SB?

[virtual]

Have you considered Annul instead of the mana leaks?  They are ready turn 1, they are good vs oath and 5/3, and they can get you tempo early by affecting the other person's mana development.  Annul doesn't help when trying to resolve your own spells though, so you might want to consider how often you use mana leak forcing a dryad through or what not.
-Virtual

[erictehfatz0r]

Omg, you are so right. Mana Leak was really just to counter opponent's stuff, since I wanted Dryad out by turn 2. Thanks a whole hell of a lot.

So:
-3 Mana Leak
+3 Annul

I really can't believe I let that slip through the cracks. Thank you.

[God_Campbell]

ya annul is a good choice but i still prefer good old leak to anything.
and merry christmas every1 may your dreams come true for all those cards...

[erictehfatz0r]

Hopefully I get a lot of money this year, I seem to have an urge to play Magic again. Merry Christmas to everyone who sees this, I hope you all have a great day.

Back on topic, I feel a little uneasy about siding in 8 cards against MWS decks and not having enough spaces to fill the random stuff out. I'm sort of seeing a Pebbles deck going, along with maybe a Doomsday deck. Is there any way to stop the zaniness? Should I add in Chalices in place of, say, Seal? Or Energy Flux? Or a Combination of both? Please someone other than the other voice in my head help me out on this one, I don't trust that guy.

EDIT: For Further reference, this is what the Top 8 was:

1st Place- Brad Hoisington (5/3 Aggro)

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Seal of Cleansing
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Goblin Welder
1 Duplicant
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Triskelion
4 Juggernaut
1 Memory Jar
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Trinisphere
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Glimmervoid
3 Gemstone Mine
3 City of Brass
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Workshop

Sideboard:
1 Seal of Cleansing
3 Jester’s Cap
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Rack and Ruin
2 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Hydroblast


2nd Place- Ian Taschner (Oath)

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emereld
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
1 Tropical Island
5 Island
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Mana Drain
2 Impulse
4 Intuition
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night
4 Oath of Druids
4 Mana Leak
1 Gaea’s Blessing
2 Misdirection

Sideboard:
3 Ground Seal
2 Control Magic
3 Energy Flux
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Back to Basics
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel

3rd Place- Roland Chang (Stax)

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Memory Jar
1 Duplicant
1 Triskelion
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Tinker
4 Goblin Welder
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Balance
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Glimmervoid
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Mindslaver
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Spawning Pit
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Triskelion


4th Place- Matt Tashner (5/3 Aggro)

1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Triskelion
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Sundering Titan
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Fire/Ice
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Duplicant
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Memory Jar
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Trinisphere
4 Goblin Welder
4 Juggernaut
1 Platinum Angel
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Shivan Reef
4 Mishra’s Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Island
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
2 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
1 Jester’s Cap
2 Fire/Ice
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Hydroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Rack and Ruin

5th Place- Paul Nemeth (Oath)

4 Oath of Druids
1 Gaea’s Blessing
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Spirit of the Night
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
2 Cunning Wish
3 Intuition
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Mana Leak
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
5 Island
1 Tropical Island

1 Strip Mine
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Flooded Strand

Sideboard:
1 Oxidize
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Capsize
1 Counterspell
1 Naturalize
1 Platinum Angel
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Pristine Angel
2 Ground Seal
2 Control Magic
3 Energy Flux


6th Place- Jeff Wilson (Control Slaver)

4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Intuition
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker
4 Goblin Welder
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Pentavus
1 Platinum Angel
2 Mindslaver
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
5 Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Strip Mine

Sideboard:
2 Lava Dart
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Spawning Pit
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Sundering Titan
3 Arcane Laboratory
2 Red Elemental Blast


7th Place- Adam Biagianti (Oath)

4 Oath of Druids
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night
1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak
2 Misdirection
1 Impulse
4 Mana Drain
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Cunning Wish
1 Tropical Island
5 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Polluted Delta

Sideboard:
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Back to Basics
3 Ground Seal
1 Control Magic
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Fire/Ice
1 Oxidize
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Echoing Truth

8th Place- Robert Barnes (Belcher)

4 Tinder Wall
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Brainstorm
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Goblin Welder
2 Living Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mana Vault
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Grim Monolith
1 Sol Ring
1 Channel
1 Lotus Petal
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Mana Crypt
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mana Crypt
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Windfall
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou

Sideboard:
1 Gemstone Mide
1 Coretapper
1 Mishra’s Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Maze of Ith
1 Monk Realist
1 Goblin Welder
1 Phyrexian Negator
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Bone Shredder
1 Naturalize
1 Oxidize
2 Tormod’s Crypt

[Ape]

was really thinking of playing that, but since it's on Jan 15, testing, goldfishing and figuring out the internetworks of the decks seems like a really hard challenge.

Well, how did you do?

[Bakes]

i would run 3 seas and 3 trops but thats just my opinion