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Author Topic: Proxies (#-of discussion)  (Read 1506 times)
Rahlious
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« on: January 04, 2005, 10:42:59 am »

Hi. Where I live, Vintage is the most popular tournament format. Part of that is that it's the 'default' format. Without even considering proxies, it's the oldest format and the one that puts the least number of restrictions on deckbuilding.

So, there are two kinds of tournaments. Sanctioned Type I tournaments where almost no one has any power and therefore the metagame is random (and very far from a 'real' Vintage metagame). The other are 13-proxy (unsanctioned, of course) Type I tournaments, where people do tend to drift toward the best Vintage decks. Although the meta isn't as tough as it might be somewhere in the US or Europe, it's slowly inching in the direction.

My question to all (especially Proxy Tournament Organizers) is:

1. How many proxies do you think is too many for weekly Vintage tournaments?
2. If there is an upper bound, do you think it's possible to promote that philosophy through themanadrain, scg, etc so that most proxy Vintage tournaments adopt that policy? I think that some unity and consistency would be ideal for Proxy Vintage since it has no official governing body.

Thanks for reading,

Mike

This is moreso a community discussion so I'm moving this thread into the appropriate forum.
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2005, 01:04:22 pm »

I would say about 15 proxies would be ideal, especially for what sounds like casual weekly tournaments.  Now for bigger tournaments like SCG or something, I would go with like 5 + $1/extra proxy with a max of 10 extras.
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sa17dk
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2005, 04:14:19 am »

To me, I'm perfectly fine with 5 proxies. If a tournament allows more, then they do. With 5 proxies you can still play with fairly competitive decks such as Doomsday, U/G Madness, Fish, etc. 10-15 proxies doesn't sound bad either because it creates an even more competitive enviroment. The only number of proxies I'm against is unlimited because that is just ridiculous.
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Setnakt
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2005, 05:01:41 am »

Quote from: sa17dk
The only number of proxies I'm against is unlimited because that is just ridiculous.


Why? Isn't it the most effective method of creating an ideal metagame, even if it is an artificial way of doing so? Aren't all restrictions on available cards defining any card pool artificial in the same way?
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sa17dk
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2005, 08:37:05 pm »

Quote from: Setnakt
Quote from: sa17dk
The only number of proxies I'm against is unlimited because that is just ridiculous.


Why? Isn't it the most effective method of creating an ideal metagame, even if it is an artificial way of doing so? Aren't all restrictions on available cards defining any card pool artificial in the same way?


I know that this is a bit off topic because it doesn't deal with the number of proxies, but when would you need unlimited proxies? The most you will need for a deck is the Power9 (not all decks even use all the p9). With a 15 proxy tournament, that still leaves you with 2 cards which you could use for some emergency SB'ing or to replace for a card you need but can't find at the moment. The only real reason I'm against unlimited proxies is because it's not needed. Dual lands are affordable, and if you want to go into a format such as T1, you should be willing to dish out cash for at least some of the staples. I dont really want to go into money issues, etc, but if you want to discuss this certain topic in more detail we can just PM eachother.
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Whatever Works
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2005, 02:53:33 pm »

First it was no proxies... Then 5 proxies... Now its almost 10 proxies everywhere... I really hope it stops going up or there would be no point to owning any of the cards... Hell, on starcity they have been argueing that there should be unlimited proxies which is absolutly absurd.
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2005, 03:07:47 pm »

Quote
Hell, on starcity they have been argueing that there should be unlimited proxies which is absolutly absurd.


This is a matter of opinion.  It depends on why you play the game, and maybe even how your views lie in the realm of politics.  Perhaps in a perfect world, everyone could have every card that they wanted for free.  Now, that removes the "Collectable" from CCG.  For some people this would be great, for others it would remove an integral part of the game.  I played for about 6 years without ever touching real cards (solely using appr) because I like the game itself, and I didn't have a need to get the real cards, nor the money, nor the time to invest into going and playing @ tournaments or stores to trade.  

That being said, now I've built my collection so that I don't really need to trade anymore.  I do miss it though, and if I can find some T1.5 or scrubbier places around here I'll go to trade.  (All of the players who I play with don't have any stuff to trade, or if they do, it's foil, or asian foil, and they know the "real" values.  Also, Type 1 specific cards are usually undervalued by the other formats, unless the card is hot across them as well.  Most players don't know or don't care about card values in formats they don't play, so you can get better trades.)

So it depends what youo want out of it.  Like I said, if you're in it for the "card game" part, there's an arguement that ideally everyone would have everything.  From the collectable part, unlimited proxies goes against the grain.

From a realistic point of view, stores need to stay in business in order for there to be tournaments, wizards needs to make money to print the cards, and by having players invest money they actually might value their cards more, and thus enjoy playing the game better (maybe, maybe not).  

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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2005, 10:54:59 pm »

Unlimited poxies is a very bad idea, at least in my opinion.  If you can proxy an entire deck, then it kills the spirit of the whole "Collectible card game" aspect.  

If you don't have to buy and trade to acquire the cards you need, then you have a lot less motivation to actually support the game financially.  Wizard's loses money (if you're using newer cards), other collectors lose money, and you just end up having printouts of cards.  Then the game will die.  And as fun as death sounds kiddies, I'm personaly not ready for my neverending torment in the pits of the Underword ... at least not yet Twisted Evil

Addendum:  Please disregard any missing letters that may be in this post.  I messed up the port in the back of my computer last night, so some keys on my board randomly stop working ...  Embarassed
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