FOW is Back !!

[thorme]

Apologies if this rumor has already broken here, but I didn't see a thread.

Check out this scan:

http://forums.mtgnews.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36270


Here's the card:

Disrupting Shoal XUU (The Singapore pre-release flyer art) (R)
Instant- Arcane
You may remove a blue card in your hand with converted mana cost X from the game rather than pay Disrupting Shoal's mana cost.
Counter target spell if it's converted mana cost is X.
Scott M. Fisher, 33/165


Definitely more conditional than FOW, but still, it is a new version of that old Vintage classic.

Wow.

[rvs]

My new extended deck will be happy

[CF]

This is so conditional it's quite poor. How about renaming topic to "Foil is back!"?

--
Chris

[Shock Wave]

This is so conditional it's quite poor. How about renaming topic to "Foil is back!"?

I'd go further to say that this card is absolute shit.

[Smmenen]

This card is better than Misd and Foil.  Therefore, it can't possibly be "absolute shit."

This was posted in the basic user forum, FYI.

[Klep]

So Steve edited his post and mine suddenly seemed irrelevant. So yeah, this card is good. Now everyone be quiet about it so I can get them cheaply in a month.

[Azhrei]

Mmmm... pitchable Power Sink in a format where nothing costs more than 1 or 2.....

::salivating::

[thorme]

This is so conditional it's quite poor. How about renaming topic to "Foil is back!"?

I'd go further to say that this card is absolute shit.

Well, FOW it is not - but I would not be so quick to dismiss it.  

I am reminded of how mono-u decks run Chalice in a deck stacked with 2cc spells with the entire purpose in mind of putting Chalice out on 1.  I'd be willing to at least test a mono-u deck with the good 1-drops back in, and the Chalices swapped for these.

Time will tell of course.  I'm not claiming the card to be great - but it has definitely gotten my interest enough to do some testing.

[virtual]

I vote yes.

This makes sense from a balance perspective as well.  They have to make you pitch a blue card so that you can't splash just it.  Also, with chalice, and now this, it looks like R&D is trying to get us to diversify our casting costs (though the format is so fast that it hasn't had too much effect.)  What's good is that the regular casting cost is actually bearable (hard casting FoW is pretty irregular).  

-Virtual

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Card's good stuff.

[Kowal]

If they had any intent of affecting our casting costs with the last two blocks, they want our stuff to cost exactly three.  That's the opposite of diversifying.

[ELD]

I honestly have no idea what kind of impact this card will have, but I guess I'll point out the obvious.  Playable blue cards have a wide range of casting costs.  Much, much wider than any other color.  

1 mana - Brainstorm is the entire format.  Other cantrips like slight and serum visions see play as well.

2 mana - Drain, Mana Leak, Counterspell, AK, Impulse

3 mana - Intuition, Thirst, Back to Basics, Cunning Wish, Tog

4 mana - Deep Analysis

5 mana - Force of Will, Misdirect

The 3 mana slot is interesting to me.  Countering 3sphere is often a good thing.  Also, the 3 mana slot is the one that I'd often be pitching to FoW something anyways.  Nothing says loving like getting rid of a redundant card to counter a bomb.  

Another point is that the regular casting cost of this card is much more managable the majority of the time.  When you look at type 1, the vast bulk of the spells out there cost <3.  1UU to counter a welder or xandid swarm may just be something we'll be seeing soon.

[CF]

This card is better than Misd and Foil. Therefore, it can't possibly be "absolute shit."

Better than Misdirection? The presence of Misdirection forced quite a few changes in t1, I doubt this card will, although I agree with ELD's assessments. The fact that it suits as an answer to Trinisphere/Crucible makes it playable (at least in a deck or two - not many though). When workshop is axed, this card will be more limited in usefulness though.

--
Chris

[Komatteru]

Another point is that the regular casting cost of this card is much more managable the majority of the time.  When you look at type 1, the vast bulk of the spells out there cost <3.  1UU to counter a welder or xandid swarm may just be something we'll be seeing soon.

Actually, pitching Brainstorm (or maybe one of those cantrips you decided to include to make this card better) to counter a turn 1 Xantid Swarm or Welder (saving Force for something bigger later, mayhaps) might turn out to be amazing, especially if you followed that with Chalice for 1 the next turn.  Remember that this card has a CMC of 2, so you can pitch one to another to counter one of those nice 2 CMC spells that are so important in this format.  You also forgot Time Walk in the 2 CMC category.  That's always been a perennial pitch favorite.  Interestingly enough, as mentioned, Cunning Wish, Psychatog, and Intution already make great Force pitch targets early in the game (that's what I usually threw away when I had a choice), and 3 mana is the bomb level in this format.

When you're playing this with Force, you're likely to use this whenever you can and save Force for something else.  It's obvious that more free countermagic allows you to cast sorcery-speed draw spells, such as Deep Analysis, fueling your pitch-countering habits.

[Smmenen]

This card is better than Misd and Foil. Therefore, it can't possibly be "absolute shit."

Better than Misdirection? The presence of Misdirection forced quite a few changes in t1, I doubt this card will, although I agree with ELD's assessments. The fact that it suits as an answer to Trinisphere/Crucible makes it playable (at least in a deck or two - not many though). When workshop is axed, this card will be more limited in usefulness though.

--
Chris

You cleverly obscured the point that Misdirection sees almost no play in the format anymore.  Despite the impact it once had, it no longer resembles the misdirection of 2003.  This card is, imo, signifiicantly bettter than Misd.  Don't count on Workshop getting axed, it will never happen.  They will restrict Trinisphere and Crucible first.

[CF]

Yes, today it doesn't see play, because the environment is different. The draw spells of old were replaced with Skeletal Scrying, Brainstorm, thanks to fetchies, and AKs. This change forced out Misdirection, and also let the DCI unrestrict Braingeyser and Stroke. Does that mean Misdirection isn't a good card? I still usually play one in my SB.

"Never happen". Haha. It's nice to see you have embraced the Azhreiesque "I know all"-tone so fully. Quite frankly, I think you are wrong about several things in your last post alone. :o)

--
Chris

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

First off I don't think anyone can argue that this should be FoW number 5-9.  Personally I cannot see sacrificing slots 5-9 to this card when you have inherent card disadvantage in Force of Will. This card really only fits in Mono-blue, and even then only the sideboard.  

34-38 spells in your deck, eight of them pitch spells?  

Perhaps this card could replace Misdirection, but I don't believe it is as efficient.  It simply reduces the options you may have.  

What do I pitch to my Force...Brainstorm or Mana Drain? I have a threat on the board and I need to protect it for one more turn, I'll pitch the Brainstorm.

What do I pitch to this new counter...Brainstorm or Mana Drain? Well Diabolic Edict costs two..hope he doesn't draw something good.  Or card X costs three mana, guess I can't counter that.

I just don't see this card being any better than what's available. In fact, I can see people diluting decks to fit the card's requirements.

[Triple_S]

FoW 5-9?  That would mean you are running 5 of these (5,6,7,8,9)...

I don't think this is as powerful as FoW but having another pitch counter in the format is some good and make the 3 CC slot even more important I think (wow, I have EIGHT ways to stop first turn 3 sphere now).

[Azhrei]

"Never happen". Haha. It's nice to see you have embraced the Azhreiesque "I know all"-tone so fully. Quite frankly, I think you are wrong about several things in your last post alone. )

I've always dreamed of being an adjective....

::sniffle:: This is a proud day.

[ELD]

Back in the day I was very successful with 4x Misdirects.  The main reason why it worked was because of the tremendous draw engine that was Gush.  Misdirect mostly countered Force of Wills.  IMO a very solid card drawer would be needed to allow running 8 pitch counters.  I'd also imagine that the game plan would have to be quite aggresive.  Perhaps an aggro control deck will emerge that abuses DS.  

Gush sat around for like a year before it was playable.  In a vaccum, I think this is a strong card.  How it meshes with the card pool is all that will determine if the card is playable.

[Smmenen]

Yes, today it doesn't see play, because the environment is different. The draw spells of old were replaced with Skeletal Scrying, Brainstorm, thanks to fetchies, and AKs. This change forced out Misdirection, and also let the DCI unrestrict Braingeyser and Stroke. Does that mean Misdirection isn't a good card? I still usually play one in my SB.

"Never happen". Haha. It's nice to see you have embraced the Azhreiesque "I know all"-tone so fully. Quite frankly, I think you are wrong about several things in your last post alone. )

--
Chris

Once again, you *completely* ignored the point that you disagreed with my point that this is superior to Misdirection.  What happened in the past is irrellevant.  I have one Misdirection in my mono blue at Gencon, but I will now run Shoals in that spot.  

I beleive you are all wrong about Shoals.  Shoals is a much better card that anyone in this thread has yet given credit.

And any assertion that Mishra's Workshop will be restricted is crass speculation - which is what you engaged it.  There is nothing whatsoever to suggest that it will be now that there has been *ample* time to do so and nothing has been done.  Just becuase you don't like Workshop doesn't mean it's "unfair."

EDIT: The printing of this card makes it even more unlikely that Workshop, or even the card far more likely to be restricted, Trinisphere will ever be restricted.

[Azhrei]

I beleive you are all wrong about Shoals.  Shoals is a much better card that anyone in this thread has yet given credit.

Bullshit. What about me and the three or four other people who all said "Yay, good"? Hell, I haven't played a game in over a year and I can see that card as being really effective. It's not just you.

[Smmenen]

I beleive you are all wrong about Shoals.  Shoals is a much better card that anyone in this thread has yet given credit.

Bullshit. What about me and the three or four other people who all said "Yay, good"? Hell, I haven't played a game in over a year and I can see that card as being really effective. It's not just you.

Typical ex post facto comment  Actually, when you didn't even correctly identify what the card did in your first post.  It's a pitchable spell blast, not *power sink.*

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Im glad ELD stated something that should have been obvious.

Blue DOES have enough cards in that curve to make shoal playable.

And by that I mean the card will be VERY GOOD in a deck that can maximize its condition.

[CF]

the card far more likely to be restricted, Trinisphere

It's funny how you do exactly the same as you accuse me of, crass speculation.

Everyone knows why the DCI restrict cards, and Trinisphere doesn't have what it takes. Workshop really does, and Dark Ritual too although to a lesser extent (extra mana just ONE turn, not EVERY turn). One could actually make a case for Wasteland as well, if Workshop was gone.

Everyone who has seen the reasoning for the recent restrictions know that Workshop is just a breath away from getting the axe. If you yanks were a little less obsessed about playing Mana Drains (or actually owned more Workshops), it'd most likely be long gone by now. :o)

I know you for some reason fail to see the logic in all of the above, but I'm comforted by the fact that the DCI has showed us that they don't. They're just cautious.

--
Chris

[Smmenen]

That's fascinating when you consider that Workshops have a greater top 8 percentage in the US than in Europe generally.  Go look at Gencon top 8 and SCG III top 8.

Second, the logic of your argument that the DCI would restrict Workshop, not Triinsphere is flawed.  The DCI restricts cards that has the least impact becuase they want people to play with their cards.  Trinisphere is what makes Workshop too good, (if we admit its too good), therefore restricting Trinisphere would be the first restriction.  

And to say that its crass speculation, in this case is wrong when you consider the evidence that I have tended to be right about these things.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I am shocked and somehow not surprised that a thread which was totally not about restrictions was tangented into it. Go sit in the corner; it isn't even February yet. Show some restraint!

I predict that this neo-FoW will not appear as a four-of because it crowds the need for blue cards too much, but it might fit in as a one or two copy card.

[Thug]

To get this a little more on-topic. Let's look at the possible decks that could benefit from this card.
The way I look at it, it's a very powerfull card, but it also requires a high blue card count and a nice cc diversity.

Either Mono-U or Blue with a little splash (U/r or U/g) seems to be able use this card consistently. Another reason why this IMO only belongs to such a deck is that these decks are counter heavy, and this often gives you another counter option (trun 2+), so that you can hold back Shoal till you can hardcast it for the good number at one point (if you didn't use it in the first turn that is)

Together with Mana Leak and FoW this can give these decks just a little better early game.

Shoal seems a little weak against Prison though, cause it most likely will only counter 3cc threats, since these decks rarely run more expensive blue cards (with Morphling as an exception, but aside from Jar there's little to counter at 5cc). It is a great way to stop that devastating first turn Trini though.

Even if you don't get a solid card-drawing engine online this card stays very powerfull. Most of the time it will be easier to hardcast than FoW.
I can defenitly see heavily blue based control/permission decks take good use of this card, probably 2/3 copies.

Koen

[Smmenen]

I'm likely to play 4 Shoal Tog and 4 Shoal Mono Blue.  

Tog has:
9 3cc
14 2cc
6 1cc
all blue in my build.

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

Assuming that you use this card to stop 3cc stuff from prison you lose long-term card advantage.

What costs three in a mono blue or Blue/x deck? Typically the drawing spells like Intuition, Thirst for Knowledge, maybe Cunning Wish (Blue/X variants) and possibly Ophidian.  

I see people trying this card early and then perhaps settling on ONE copy of it in a deck to be cute.