budget gro viable in the T1 metagame or no?

[mr_rogers]

I have been working on a budget gro list for a while to work in the new combo/workshop/oath meta. I'll give you the list I'm currently using then explain the choices I made.

4x Quiron Dryad
4x FOW
4x Mana Leak
4x Counterspell
4x Duress
4x AK
4x brainstorm
4x Opt/Slieght of hand/Impulse
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Yawg Will
1x Gush
3x Cunning Wish
4x Daze
2x Misdirection
4x Polluted Delta
2x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Chrome Mox
3x Island
3x Swamp

sideboard
3x Togs
1x Stifle
1x Berzerk
3x Energy Flux
4x Naturalize
1x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Deed

After a lot of play testing I decided to keep the togs in the board because I almost always used the dryad as the win instead of the togs. I am a little iffy on weather opt, slieght or impulse should be used. I like that opt lets me draw a card for only one mana at instant speed but it also lets me see the fewest cards. I will probably end up switch opt to impuse because slieght of hand is too slow as a sorcery. I also really like the wishes in the deck but don't really have much acceration to get them going early. Although I may play this in a proxy touney in Syracuse in which case I'd add a lotus, emerald, sapphire, ancestral and a time walk. But if anyone has any thoughts on the cunnings it the budget version listed I'd be glad to hear them.

The tournaments I play in every snday don't have any power players in them so budget works really well there. The deck can usually keep up on counters with oath but I was thinking maybe I should add some bounce in the sb. There is a lot of red popping up lately and I was thinking of adding chill to the sb as well. Because there is no power a lot of people play affinity too but I haven't lost to that yet thank to energy flux.

So the reason I posted this is to find out if anyone thinks this deck might perform well at a SCG event. Any advise or critism is welcome as I do not get to play real T1 very often and am unsure if this deck has the speed/ power to compete with the current decks out there.

[Ape]

How are the Daze's for you working? Of course they are prob. better in a non-powered metagame, but during my own testing they were dead most of the time. Also, why bothering so much over mana expensive countermagic? It maybe is the way for Gro to go, but I always liked the beatdown version due to its tempo. In that way, I could try to race most other decks.

Could you explain to me the choice of a BUG list instead of BUGW of even GUW? Meddling Mages help you to stop combo and a whole lot of other nasty perms entering play. Swords to Plowshares will help you to optimize your Oath matchup, and are also very good against most randomscrub.dec.

Another question; did you ever won a game off a insane Y. Will? I have played Gro for years and always excluded Y. Will just because he is to expensive to support for Gro, without power.

Are the four lonely Dryad enough for the maindeck? Maybe you would want to switch some Togs from your sideboard to your main, or include some other beaters to help your Dryad team. Waterfront Bouncer may be a good addition to this deck, since its sends back Collosus, Oath and other killercreatures.

Ape.

[mr_rogers]

I was thinking of adding a splash of white for swoerds but wasn't sure what to cut to put them in. The dryads are usually enough to win but I do find that I'm lacking a creature every now and then. I was thinking of the bouncer aswell and maybe medeling mage if I add white to the deck. As for the will it is usually a win if the game gos late but that doesn't happen too often, so I may replace that. The dazes are just amazing in the deck they are usually a surprize and with no moxen around most people tap out a lot.

[Revvik]

If you went the white splash over black you could be afforded Swords to Plowshares, more artifact/enchantment hate (Seal of Cleansing/Disenchant/D. Blow) plus the better top-deck creature of Mystic Enforcer (he's better to pull off the top than Psychatog), and maybe even Meddling Mages out of the side.

Not sure if this was the direction you wanted to take with the deck, but it doesn't hurt to get ideas flowing.
Also, I have to echo the question of whether or not 4 Dryads is enough.  I thought the standard rule of thumb was 4 Dryads, 3 'Togs?  This gives a versatile creature base with more paths to victory - the standard Hulk Smash route or the aggro-beats of Dryad.

[mr_rogers]

I like the idea of the white splash more and more so I may go with that over black. Does anyone have a deck list where white was used? I'd be interested to see one and also any tournament results with a white gro deck.

 If I do go white I'd probably do Dryad and Meddling mage as a creature base. I haven't really thought of using Mystic Enforcer, I was under the impression that he simply costs to much at four mana.

[Ape]

As said, I played an aggro Gro deck, a GUW version. It was a very lowcasting-cost/cheap build, but with succes. On several Vintage tournaments here in the Netherlands I made T8. Those tournaments were not really at a high level but at least every Vintage deck was represented, powered or not. I eventually transformed it into a 4CG list. I did this mainly for the reason of cheap removal spells (Ghastly Demise) and to have more disruption (Duress), since my disruption count wasn't enough, mainly because I cutted the Daze's out.

Here is a 4CG (4 Color Gro) decklist. This isn't my original decklist; I lost it somehow on my computer and had to rely on my memory, which isn't that great since I havn't had any sleep in like 24 hours  

4CG, by Ape:

Creatures: 12
4x Quirion Dryad
2x Werebear
4x Meddling Mage
1x Mystic Enforcer
1x Exalted Angel

Disruption: 10
4x Force of Will  
2x Misdirection
4x Duress

Draw: 11
1x Gush
4x Brainstorm
4x Sleight of Hand
2x Serum Visions

Manas: 16
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
1x Island
4x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
3x Underground Sea

Tutors: 3
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor

Removal: 8
3x Ghastly Demise
1x Balance
4x Swords to Plowshares  

I hope you can do something with this.
Succes!

Ape.

[mr_rogers]

Ape, thanks for the deck list. I may try and tinker with it to fit the current metagame.
 Just one question....How hurt is the mana base by wastland? I noticed there were a lot of nonbasics which would seem bad in the current CoW + wasteland enviroment in T1.

 Once again thanks for the list I'll definately play around with it and see how I do.

[Ape]

I mainly played this deck when there was no such thing as CoW or Trinisphere  
If your metagame is Wasteland heavy, you can change the manabase adding more basics. Maybe something like this?

Manas: 18
3x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta

2x Island
2x Swamp
2x Plains
1x Forest

2x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
2x Underground Sea

For this scenerio I have upped the land count a little, because you don't want te screw on just a Forest or a Plains. You can cut some extra creatures from the maindeck or sack the Werebears.

Ape.

[Tristal]

Serum Visions is better than Sleight of Hand.

For the record Ape, that is the weirdest mana base I have ever seen.  Why would you include a basic Forest if it can't be fetched?

[Ape]

Urgh, you are so right  

I think I made that error due the fact that I mainly played UGW Gro - with Windswept Heaths, which can fetch Forests  

About Serum Visions/Sleight of Hand I don't agree with you. I'm not going to challenge the fact that Serum Visions is actually better, because it is, but personally I favor Sleight over Visions. Getting to choose the card just works out for me, instead of choosing some cards that you will draw your next turn. That is why I choose Sleight over Visions.

[TrixR4Kidz]

no fastbond? cmon now, grow isn't grow with the bond of fastness

[Ape]

I do think that Gro is still Gro without Fastbond. Since you only have 1 Gush and very few mana sources in the deck, you won't need Fastbond.
It will be dead most of the time.

Ape.