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Anusien
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« on: January 30, 2005, 03:03:55 pm » |
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I went through and examined Eric Miller's The Riddler, the deck that won SCG #4. It's basically a 5C Workshop aggro deck, but because of all of its spells, it dislikes Workshop quite a bit. I went through and looked at some Workshop Aggro lists for a while, and then set out to build something that could abuse some of Mr. Miller's tech, while being a more purer beatdown deck.
I started with a R/W Aggro list that had almost as bad a manabase and not enough threats. Here's what I'm trying now: // Lands 3 Ancient Tomb 3 City of Traitors 4 Wasteland 4 Mishra's Workshop 1 Strip Mine 5 Plains
// Creatures 4 Juggernaut 4 Razormane Masticore 4 Su-Chi 2 Karn, Silver Golem 2 Duplicant
// Spells 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Emerald 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Crypt 4 Trinisphere 3 Crucible of Worlds 3 Hanna's Custody 4 Ankh of Mishra 1 Balance 1 Memory Jar
// Sideboard SB: 4 Chalice of the Void SB: 4 Seal of Cleansing SB: 4 Rule of Law SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
The Ankhs are actually golden, especially versus control matchups. It serves as lots of damage and a tough decision between Ankh damage and draining fatties. Other than that, it should be pretty straight up. There are lots of disruption elements to stall while the fatties roll through.
The deck's manabase is tons better. It's monowhite, and for the most part the white cards don't come out until mid-late game so color screw is not an issue. Also, there are 5 basic plains here to avoid Wasteland screw.
The card that is definitely not shining for me is the Crucible of Worlds. I like it maindeck because it's a pre-emptive answer to opposing Wastes as well as being a proactive threat with my own Strip effects, but I find more and more I'm siding it out. Maybe that's just because I've been playing lots of faster decks, but I'm wondering if even against Control Slaver if I have the time to mess around recurring Strips. Maybe I should move Chalice or Seal of Cleansing main instead. Thoughts?
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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the boogie man
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2005, 10:22:30 am » |
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I think that the welders are needed for a deck like this, because they are > custody. The reason I say this is because the only reason that custody was in the riddler is because it's really hard to weld in a naught, due to the comes into play effect. that way, not only do you hate out other welders, but you protect your artifacts from hate.
They are functionally welders in the deck, without being prone to fire. but welders are better because they also avoid mana costs. but in a deck where your favorite win condition=1 mana, and welding him in is a bad idea, so the custody fits the role better.
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Unrestrict: Gush, Flash, Frantic search, fact or fiction (probably), and burning wish if it doesn't suck now.
this may be the last time you hear the boogie song.
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Covetous
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2005, 12:55:17 pm » |
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Um...so what's the point of not running blue or red? Basically, for this deck white is about the worst color possible. If you don't want stuff to be targeted, use FoW/Misdirection (and thus blue) or Lightning Greaves, which can be REALLY good and doesn't force you to run a terrible color. Even black (duress, demonic tutor, yawgwill) and green (exploration/fastbond/mana acceleration/regrowth) are better than white unless white is only a splash (i.e. for seal & STP in 5/3).
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Methuselahn
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2005, 08:50:10 pm » |
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By the looks of the deck, it appears you have prepared your sb to really hose Tendrils and Oath. This is likely the best choice nowadays as those matchups are still tough. Tendrils can bounce everything and Oath can win the coin flip. The things about the list that stand out to me is how it immediately goes into top deck mode focusing entirely on plan A or die game 1. You have *alot* of creatures. There's sixteen normal creatures and eleven artifacts that can be animated and attack reliably. 27 creatures. Personally, I would cut 4 creatures to bring in your Chalices maindeck. Damping Matrix could help your Slaver deck problems. The deck looks real bomby though. The Balance looks kinda random, but w/e. 
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Mixing Mike
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2005, 09:12:13 pm » |
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Methuselahn- the thing about Damping Matrix is that the Slaver player would be bringing in Rack and Ruins after boarding anyways against artifact aggro, thus giving them a way to remove it and your dudes. This is why Hannah's Custody is superior.
I really like the looks of this deck. Be careful with Su-Chi though. Welders on the other side of the table plus these things equals a game loss. I know you have Custody, but still, it's something to be aware of if you didn't see it beforehand.
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Nefarias
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2005, 12:58:20 am » |
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Four Razormanes also looks like alot, especially since you are capable of dumping your entire hand early and don't have a draw engine. People are running Seals more and more maindeck, but that's obviously a metagame choice, so it depends on where you play. Hanna's Custody + Seals =  , though (except vs. Oath). For such a purely aggro deck, while Smokestack may be too slow, I think Tangle Wires would work nicely. Triskelion > Duplicant is most cases, too (though again, metagame).
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Methuselahn
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2005, 08:46:24 am » |
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Mixing Mike- The thing about Damping Matrix is that it buys you some time vs Slaver and provides you with another bomb. I realized a long time ago that it is an artifact and that RnR destroys artifacts. :/ Btw, Matrix does alot more in the way of stopping the opponent from tapping things like Slaver, it also hits various combo decks, like belcher. (which is a problem for this maindeck) I mentioned Matrix as a possible fit because it basically fits into the deck while only messing with your own Karn. It compliments the 'man plan' so nicely in alot of cases.
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Mixing Mike
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2005, 11:24:34 am » |
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Methu- I understand this, I was just pointing out the reasons why he did pick Custody over Damping Matrix. Even if they locked you down, if you resolved a Juggernaught, it HAS to get answered, making an activated Mindslaver a bit less relevant.
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Methuselahn
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2005, 12:21:26 pm » |
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You're absolutely right!  I also want to mention that Matrix isn't really the point. I originally suggested less creatures and more disruption. Chalice and Matrix both work here, so I suggested them. Chalice seems far stronger, Matrix *could* fill some of those now empty SB slots.
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Apprentice
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2005, 01:35:13 pm » |
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If you have sideboard space think about taking out Seals, adding Disenchant and Isochron Scepter. If you go in this direction also consider Argivian Find and Chant.
Can you tell I play Parfait? :p
-Apprentice
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Anusien
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2005, 08:56:59 pm » |
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Hanna's Custody: Not only does it take down Welders, but it also acts like Dense Foliage, which is pretty good against some decks. It ends up getting sided out against many decks. For Oath, it will come out for Chalice to set at 2. I never intend for this to be permanant, the point is to buy time to win the damn game. Damping Matrix might work, but not as well.
Razormane Masticore: Yes, it hurts because I have all of 0 permanant ways to draw more cards. Still, it can help a lot. I'm sort of good, cheap creatures.
Su-Chi: I rarely run into the problem of him getting Welded out, but the problem is more that I have reservations about running him into opposing Juggernauts to win races (I think I'm the most creature-dense deck in the format, excepting maybe Fish).
I would love to have more threats: Karn and Duplicant could come out for something good, and that would let me maindeck Swords to Plowshares. I end up sideboarding Swords anyway versus Oath (the Crucibles come out).
The reason why I'm so sideboarded against combo is because maindeck I'm prepared to fight Control Slaver and the like. I can't bring in Rack and Ruins because I'm monowhite (to keep consistency up and have the power of Hanna's Custody, Balace and Swords), so theoretically I could bring in Seal of Cleansing.
Also, Seal of Cleansing > Disenchant. I like to use all my mana when I can so I don't need to decide between a topdecked fattie and playing Disenchant. Seal of Cleansing has the same effect that a untapped Nevinyrral's Disk sitting out on the board does.
I think in the end you're probably right. There aren't enough threats in monowhite, so you end up relying on the stall power of Wastelands and Trinisphere while artifact fatties swing for the win. Which is fun, but probably not the best strategy.
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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