Dire Consequences

[KDenz81]

Here's an idea I have for a multi enchantment

Dire Straights  3WB     Uncommon 2
Enchantment

Sacrifice Dire STraights: Target opponent discards two cards from their hand, or put two 1/1 white Spirit tokens into play.

1WB: Target creature gets +1/+1 or -1/-1 until end of turn.



I've got more where this comes from, I love MtG Set Editor.

Denz

[Ephraim]

None of this card's abilities have anything to do with one another. It looks like an amalgamation of random effects loosely associated with the colours of the card. Really, if a card is going to have this many abilities, they need to be working together (or directly against one another -- to create tension). There's a couple of design articles written by Mark Rosewater that maybe you ought to read.

Design 101: Common Rookie Mistakes
Design 102: How to Design (part 2)

[KDenz81]

Alright let's see if we can work the kinks out of this card.

Dire Straights  3{W}{B}  Uncommon

Enchantment

During each players discard phase that player chooses and sacrifices a creature.
Dureing each players draw phase that player chooses a creature in an opponents graveyard and puts it into play under their control.


this was another version of the card that I decided on, let me know if it needs more work.

Denz

[Nefarias]

The first two abilties work really well with each other, and I like it, but the third ability is just a random tack-on still. Eliminate the third ability and you've got something here.

[KDenz81]

Ok, I revised the card and removed the third abbility.  Let me just clear up the method to my madness.  Even though I like MtG, I think that the game has ruined itself.  It's broken most of it's own rules and has printed cards with automatic win conditions.  
I would think the only way to fix magic would be to make cards that are bizzare and random, where combos would be really hard to find and players would have to really read into cards to figure them out.  So if some of the cards I submit don't have synergy and such, that's why.  
I actually make my own sets with my friends using MtG set editor and play with those cards.  Also, we picked up the story line that was dropped off before Mirrodin and CoK block.  We call it type 3, or storyline magic.
Anyways, just thought I'd let you guys know where I'm coming from.

Denz

[Nazdakka]

Isn't The Abyss a little too good? For a creatureless deck this is a better version with a multicoloured manacost. I'm also not really clear why it's got white in the mana cost... none of the abilities are really in white's traditional realm, unless you count Breath of Life as a white theme.

PS: Flavour text: Money for nothing and your chicks for free...

[Puschkin]

None of this card's abilities have anything to do with one another. It looks like an amalgamation of random effects loosely associated with the colours of the card. Really, if a card is going to have this many abilities, they need to be working together (or directly against one another -- to create tension).

Hold on a second! We are not Wizards nor MaRo ... do you have any clue how TIRED I am of all those cards that have synergy or even combo with themselves!?

If the effects of this card don't go with each other ... fine! This probably means we can drop the activation costs and the casting costs, right? And that means the card is cheap enough to be played. All you have to do now is finding the right cards that have synergy with as many abilities of this card as possible. Isn't that the purpose of deckbuilding? I am itching for cards like these because I have a nice tool for a myriad of decks! I can't speak for the crowd but personally I like to build my own creations and not what R&D dictates me. But the newer cards do this: Their built-in synergy with themselves and the current block hampers originality.

I love the concept of the original version of this card. Maybe lets try to be less conservative and less MaRo-worshipping this time.
I just don't understand the name of the card ...

[Nova442]

Being creative is fine, but some cards are just terrible because the abilities have NOTHING to do with anything.

How about this for a new creative card!  What an amazing beatstick

3WBUG
4/4
Fying Shadow Unblockable First Strike Regeneration: G

No, I don't think going down that road is a good way.  If the abilities could be even loosely tied together by flavor then cool.  They don't always have to be connected mechanically (top down cards).  Random abilities tacked on just make the cards look ugly.  I think if you have a complex ability already you should just let that stand on its own instead of adding something that has nothing to do with it.  I do agree that we don't see enough cards with unrelated abilities, but I don't think this is the card to make a stand on.

[KDenz81]

Thanks for the opinion Puschkin, and sure the name can be reworked a bit.  I don't think it fits the card's abilities anymore.  Maybe Dire Consequences, or Graverobery, or something along those lines.

Now Nova, I remember the times of Legends, Visions, Mirage, and those old school sets where cards did have sometimes random abilities that had no real synergy with anything.  Such as Giant Catipillar a 3/3 that sacs to make a 1/1 flyer.

Cards don't NEED to have synergy, even newer cards sometimes don't have tension. Sometimes tension is really stupid, like that Dwarf Legend that gives Barbarians +1/+1.

Denz

[Nova442]

Yes you could say we've learned a lot over time about what makes a bad card and we stopped making them

Giant Caterpillar is the epitome of flavor in abilities though!  The thing turns into a butterfly :/  That's definitely no random tack on.  What does a caterpillar turn into over time (at end of turn)?

[KDenz81]

Nova, I'm not arguing the fact that a Catapillar turns into a Butterfly.  I'm suggesting that the ability is of no use, or is just bad.  If it was a 1/1 that turned into a 3/3 that would be of some use and kinda cool at least on a casual level.

What I don't like is that there are no plain Vanilla cards anymore.  Yes, Vanilla cards, they were back in 4th edition 1 mana drops that were 1/1's and had NO abilities.  Cards back then didn't need to have synergy, tension, or even a real purpose for using them.  With the new sets there is no Vanilla card baseline, look through any of the new non core sets and find me 10 cards that have no abilities.  

If you want cards that have the words combo written all over them go find Magic The Forbidden, also known as Type 3.  Those cards are meant to be broken.

[Nefarias]

Just off the top of my head, Champions of Kamigawa had both Wandering Ones and Order of the Sacred Bell, and Betrayers has that 5/3 Ogre for 3RR. A bit off topic, but the Butterfly ability is useful if you need a flyer, or in response to the Caterpillar dying. Seriously, would you rather have a Giant Caterpillar or a Hill Giant?

Cards back then didn't need...a real purpose for using them.

Then why use them? Why even create them? You're saying that's a good thing? Also, the reason for that is when there are only a few hundred different cards, bad cards are better by comparison. Now that we have more options, we don't have to settle for bad cards.

Back to your original rant, I agree that cards don't need to combo with itself. An example:

Whenever you would gain life, draw that many cards instead.
Whenever a creature comes into play, gain 3 life.
X: Put a creature token into play.

That's not a good card. But neither is:

Flying, Haste, Bushido 2
When CARDNAME comes into play, untap three lands and discard a card.
T: CARDNAME deals 1 damage to target player.
1: CARDNAME gains protection from green until end of turn.
Sacrifice CARDNAME: Return target permanent to its owner's hand.
When CARDNAME is put into a graveyard from play, shuffle your library.

It's just a mess. I'm not saying that your original card was this bad, but you get the point. It was just a jumble. The only reason why a card should be so haphazard is if there is a really good flavor for it, and I can't think of any for this.

[KDenz81]

I didn't mean to get into that much of a rant, and I didn't mean Vanilla cards were completely useless back then at least you could use them to boost up your Keldon Warlord.  Anyways....

Back to the card in discussion.  I decided to rework the name.

Dire Consequences 3  ~ Rare
Enchantment

During each players discard phase that player chooses and sacrifices a creature.
During each players draw phase that player chooses a creature in an opponents graveyard and puts it into play under their control.
"We all die to live again." - Unknown

[Matt]

Now that is a much nicer card!

[Toad]

Discard and Draw are steps, not phases

[Matt]

You also don't do things "during" steps anymore but you don't hear me complaining. I fix that sort of thing in the eleventh hour - don't worry about it til then.

[KDenz81]

Dire Consequences 3{B}{W}  
Enchantment
AT the begining of each players discard step that player chooses and sacrifices a creature.
At the begining of each players draw step that player chooses a creature in an opponents graveyard and puts it into play under their control.
"We all die to live again." - Unknown

Here's the current version of this card, I'm inacting the 24 hour rule.  So if you have any comments, questions, or concerns about this card pm me.

Denz

[Jacob Orlove]

Isn't this stupidly good in a creatureless deck?

[Nazdakka]

Isn't this stupidly good in a creatureless deck?

Yes. It's a better version The Abyss in that situation. I think it needs a clause along the lines of 'if you control no creatures, sacrifice <this>'.

[Matt]

Isn't this even stupider than that? I get your guy in my upkeep, then sacrifice it EOT so it doesn't affect me at all. As long as there's nothing in my graveyard for you to take (either because my guys are protected, or because I'm using Call of the Herd or creatures with upkeeps you can't pay)) this is totally one-sided.

[KDenz81]

Dire Consequences 3{W}{B}
Enchantment
At the begining of each players discard step that player chooses and sacrifices a creature.
At the begining of each players draw step that player chooses a creature in an opponents graveyard and puts it into play under their control.
If you control no creatures, sacrifice Dire Consequences.
"We all die to live again." - Unknown

I like the idea of a drawback if you don't have creatures, you have to sacrifice it.  I'll leave this one up for a while to continue discussion.

Denz

[Ephraim]

This still doesn't work. If I have one creature on the table when I cast this and no creatures in my graveyard, then my opponent still has the first sacrifice. I can proceed to take and sacrifice his creature over and over again, as long as my one creature remains safe. Sure, the requirements of using this are now a little bit steeper, but there are dozens of ways to ensure your opponent never gets anything. Play only with creature tokens or with stuff like Rector, which can remove itself from the 'yard or play untargettable creatures, so your opponent has a hard time killing them. For the nominal increase from to {W}{B}, this card is orders of magnitude better than Call to the Grave. That slowly kills your opponent's creatures, just like this, but requires you to be playing a single tribe and doesn't give you the opportunity to get any of your opponent's creatures. This theoretically gives your opponent the chance to get your creatures, but that penalty is so laughably easy to work around it doesn't even matter.

[stolen]

I'm confused.  The opponent would never make the first sacrifice because this must be cast at sorcery speed and therefor the player's discard step will happen before the opponent's.

[Ephraim]

I got the order of the effects incorrect. I'm sorry. I thought you sacrificed during your upkeep and gained control at end of turn. This is less broken then I thought, then. I'm a little bit puzzled, though, why this occurs "At the beginning of each player's discard step," rather than "At the end of each player's turn."

[Jacob Orlove]

Well, considering that there is no "discard step" anymore, maybe he just wanted the ability to never trigger.

[KDenz81]

Hnmm, I guess I'm not up to date with the phases / steps.
Do they still go Untap, Upkeep, Draw, Main, Combat, Post Combat Main, End of Turn: Clean up?  It seems they've gotten rid of Discard phase and just made everything happen at the end of your turn.  I remember back in Visions when you have over 7 cards in hand at the end of your turn you got a discard phase to discard a card.  Apparently your discard phase has been classified as part of the end of turn step along with the resolution of damage.  

Dire Consequences 3{W}{B}
Enchantment
At the end of each players turn that player sacrifices a creature.
At the begining of each players draw step that player chooses a creature in an opponents graveyard and puts it into play under their control.
If you control no creatures, sacrifice Dire Consequences.
"We all die to live again." - Unknown

I decided to alter the card in that you have no choice but to sacrifice a creature.  Kinda like a permanent Diabolic Edict combined with Breath of Life.

[Jacob Orlove]

The phases are:
Beginning Phase
First Main Phase
Attack Phase
Second Main Phase
End Phase

Some of those phases have steps:
Beginning
    Untap Step
    Upkeep Step
    Draw Step
End Phase
    End of Turn Step
    Cleanup Step