[Deck Analysis/Debate] Oath vs. Slaver, which to play?

[Jacob Orlove]

And yes, a Slaver player at 0 has effectively had their maindeck counterspell reserve cut in half since they can no longer pay the 1 life to pitch-cast Force of Will.

Yes they can, if they are countering the Control Magic then it hasn't resolved, and they still have the Platinum. This would put the player at -1 life. I have just started to take my DCI lvl 1 judge training, and fully understand state-based effects.

The life loss on Force of Will is a cost. Even with Plats in play, you cannot pay life that you do not have. If you want to cast Force at 0 life, you better have 3UU open.

[racetraitor]

And yes, a Slaver player at 0 has effectively had their maindeck counterspell reserve cut in half since they can no longer pay the 1 life to pitch-cast Force of Will.

Yes they can, if they are countering the Control Magic then it hasn't resolved, and they still have the Platinum. This would put the player at -1 life. I have just started to take my DCI lvl 1 judge training, and fully understand state-based effects.

This is false. Using the ACC on FoW requires payment of life, which is different from taking damage. It's the same with fetchlands. If you are at 0 life you don't have any life points to pay with. Plats + Necro/Bargain would be pretty b0rken otherwise

[Demonic Attorney]

I don't want to make a protracted issue out of this, but since I'm still at work with not much else to do, I'll clarify a few points lest someone reading this thread come away with bad information.

First, and most importantly:

Yes they can, if they are countering the Control Magic then it hasn't resolved, and they still have the Platinum. This would put the player at -1 life. I have just started to take my DCI lvl 1 judge training, and fully understand state-based effects.

Well, your knowledge of state-based effects notwithstanding, it seems your knowledge of payment of costs leaves something to be desired.  Payment of 1 life is part of the alternate cost of Force of Will, and cannot be paid to cast the spell if you are at 0 life any more than it could be hard-cast if you had only 2 colorless mana and 2 blue available.  Keep at that lvl 1 judge training.

I want to make that point clear so no one reading this thread loses a game in a tournament by trying to pitch-cast Force of Will at 0 life.  You can't pay the life since you don't have it, and it's part of the cost.  Moving on, briefly...

Demonic Attorney:

Your assertion that Platinum Angel is not the central determining factor in the Oath vs. Slaver matchup is demonstrably false.


This couldn't be any more a ridiculous statement. Platinum Angel is not (anymore) the main problem I face. Please wait, and read the rest of the post. My new build changes the creature base, which makes it immune to Platinum Angel.

If you've changed the deck, God bless you.  It doesn't change the validity of the statment that standard Oath matchups are determined almost completely by the appearance of Platinum Angel.  Extensive support for that contention gives it a little too much merit to be dismissed out of hand as "ridiculous."  

While on the subject of your modifications to the deck, I'm interested to see how a Salvagers/Lotus/Spellbomb engine would work; no other deck has been able to effectively make use of this combo, among the considerable number that have tried.  It seems like an innovative idea in an Oath deck, and this strikes me as a good time to try it since the use of Null Rod is on the decline in Massachusetts.  Are you going to the Providence Vintage event this Saturday?  I should be there, if all goes according to plan.  Perhaps we can test the matchup there.

Thirst for Knowledge and Brainstorm (plus occasionally finding Library of Alexandria) allow Slaver to build up their hand more quickly than Oath


This, if we are talking about normal Control Slaver, is false. Are we all forgetting that oath runs 14 counters? I don't play aggressive into Slaver, I lay back and play Intuition and Counterspells.

I forsee the dispute surrounding this issue degenerating into a lengthy exchange of conclusory statements, which I don't think anyone has the time for.  I'll just acknowledge here that yes, Oath runs more counterspells, but this is 1) irrelevant to my statement that Slaver's draw engine is superior and 2) not necessarily a guarantee that Oath will actually be able to maintain an appreciable advantage in terms of control since Slaver can produce more threats that will greatly tax Oath's larger supply of counterspells.


A final comment on the Thirst for Knowledge addition:  Slaver and 5/3 each run a considerable number of artifacts to pitch to TFK, which in turn helps to maximize the card advantage derived from casting it.  Your build of oath seems to run a smaller number of discardable artifacts; I count 10 in your deck vs. approximately 15 in other decks that run TFK.  Has your testing put you in any situations in which you're forced to discard cards to TFK that you'd rather keep because you're short on discardable artifacts?

[Edit-- Well now.  I certainly feel secure, knowing that the forumites are impressively vigilant in their monitoring of rules interpretations.  Heh, good job guys, you beat me to it.]

[[supa_t(im)]]

Damping Matrix does nothing, it gets welded out, countered, Duressed, or they just play Will and win anyways. Null Rod is more interesting.

How does this work?  It can't be welded out, welder can't use his ability.

I'm curious how this deck can get the combo out quicker than the conventional oath.  It still seems as though you will have the same random times that you have trouble getting the combo going.  Do you have any conclusive results yet?

[Joblin Velder]

Demonic Attorney > All.

Whether it's true or not, avoid posting replies with no useful content. Verbal warning for spam.

Hyperion

[Meddling Mike]

And yes, a Slaver player at 0 has effectively had their maindeck counterspell reserve cut in half since they can no longer pay the 1 life to pitch-cast Force of Will.


Yes they can, if they are countering the Control Magic then it hasn't resolved, and they still have the Platinum. This would put the player at -1 life. I have just started to take my DCI lvl 1 judge training, and fully understand state-based effects.

Well, Mr. I'm like a judge but not quite, if you read force of will and platinum angel you'd realize that the force of will reads PAY 1 LIFE, if somebody is at 0 and is being kept alive via platinum angel they cannot pay 1 life because they do not have any life with which to pay, this also holds true for fetch lands. Damage is what would potentially put a player at negative life, so you could for instance take damage from an opposing creature or earthquake yourself to some exorbitant negative life total. Platinum angel may keep the player from dying, but it's NOT the same as having infinite life in that regard. I sincerely hope that I never find myself on the butt end of a ruling like that. Beyond that I concur with Demonic Attorney on this matter. Typical builds of oath roll over and die to platinum angel, once she's down slaver can afford to sit tight and build up behind a superior draw engine before settling in for a slaver lock. Oath builds is not really my area of expertise, but I'd assume a deck like that wouldn't be laden with flex room for such things as maindeck bounce spells for platinum angel without damaging the effectiveness of the main deck.

[jingles]

Sence the topic of this thread was "Which deck to play?" Ill touch on that for a min then make a small comment about the aspiring lvl 1 Judge that will allow you to "pay life" when your at 0 and platz is on the board....

First off there really is no matchup between Oath and Slaver, I mean the slaver player needs to start the game with a FOW unless your going first and see Mox Sapphire+Volcanic+Mana Drain either way you must have the controll game in mind before trying to get the lock.  Thats not due to the inherent strength of Oath but just to the redundency in the deck that makes it perform what it came to do quickly.

For the most part the Counter war is something that you let them win after draining their hand of counters that will inturn allow you to resolve your Tinker+Platinum Angel before they oath which means... GG about 90% of the time because by turn 3 you should be leading the card advantage by at least 3-5 cards not to mention that the oath will be scrambling to figure out what to do against your Angel.  

Now lets say that the Mighty oath has gone turn one Orchard + Mox =Oath of Druids...... OMG.....  ok well at that point you either start ther counter war over oath or let it resolve and grab your ankles...  I prefer the first because although you have used your counters (1-2) you have also baited them to use theirs and the odds of them having 3 FOW opening hand are astranomical let alone not having to pitch one to the other just to protect their little oath of druids. which leaves you 3 turns to cunning wish for the answer or tinker for the win either way you have alot more options as a slaver player.

All I can say about that is the real world has proven to me that oath cannot consistantly beat slaver. After testing against it and facing it in actual tournament play oath can not get lucky enough fast enough to beat the massive card draw and controll aspects of Slaver.

So now with that in mind "Which Deck To Play"

Well the choice is clear all of you must play the Oath for multiple reasons. One is to try and prove me wrong and the other is that the more of you playing oath means that you may stomp your way to the semi's but ill meet you there and that matchup in the semi's is almost a bye into T8 so COME BRING YOUR OATH.





Oh and bty about that judge kid, let me know when you become a judge so I can come play at one of your events and bargain for my whole deck. while being at 0 life.  

[Demonic Attorney]

Alright, I feel compelled to say this even though it's not particularly relevant to the discussion and I lack the prestige to back myself up.  But here it is anyway.  Please lay off about the Force of Will thing.  You're all obviously right, and he's obviously wrong.  Five people don't need to repeat the point to hammer it home.  I considered deleting that portion of my post when I saw two other posters had already said it, but I decided that since we all basically got to the issue at the same time, it was fair game for the three of us.

What seems unnecessary to me is for over half the people who posted subsequent comments to make reference to IShHmokeDanks' mistake.  He gets it, already.  I'm sure he's embarassed enough as it is without more people belaboring the point.  He was already kind of defensive about being regarded with disdain as a "New User"; I'm sure this isn't helping.  It's hard enough to integrate yourself into a community perceived by more than a few people as insular and elitist without having almost everyone in a thread jump on a mistake you made.

That was basically all I really had to say, but just so my post isn't completely irrelevant to this discussion--

the slaver player needs to start the game with a FOW unless your going first and see Mox Sapphire+Volcanic+Mana Drain either way you must have the controll game in mind before trying to get the lock

I'm not sure I agree completely here.  While this is letting the focus of the discussion meander a bit from a comparison of the inherent strengths and weaknesses of Oath and Slaver, discussions of matchup dynamics have consistently appeared in this thread, so I'll continue in that vein.  In my own experience as a Slaver player who's faced many an Oath deck, my attitude going into the match is this.  Oath is probably going to hit, and you're probably going to be knocked to 0 life in short order.  As you said, given the tremendous redundnancy of Oath, it has remarkable ability to make this happen consistently.  However, all is not lost.  Just because Oath resolves and just because Akroma and SotN are making large withdrawals from The Big Bank of Your Life Total every turn, you haven't necessarily lost the game.

As I've mentioned in my previous posts, Oath needs to devote a considerable amount of resources to getting Oath and Orchard down within the first few turns of the game.  Because of this, Slaver has a 3 turn window in which to get out Platinum Angel from an initial position ahead on cards, since Oath has done its thing and Slaver has yet to act.  Because of its superior draw engine, this opportunity is usually enough to find Angel before dying, although in my experience it's almost always been the turn you spend on 2 life facing down both Akroma and SotN.

My point here is that a Slaver deck's gameplan should not be "I have to stop Oath from hitting, I have to stop Oath from hitting, oh sweet God I have to stop Oath from hitting!"  Because it's probably going to.  In well over half the games I've played against Oath, they've had Oath and Orchard down with Force backup by turn 2.  Slaver is not built to stop that kind of opening.  Instead, Slaver should focus on how to deal with this situation and concentrate all its efforts on maneuvering effectively within it.  This means trying to draw early counters from Oath with Welders on turns 1 and 2 if you can't throw big draw spells.   I can't tell you how many Oath players have thrown Force of Wills and Mana Drains at my turn 1 or 2 Welder, only to sigh with resignation as I cast Demonic Tutor and then Tinker on turn 4 while at 2 life.  

And that brings me to the next point.  Be very, very mindful of your life total against Oath in the early game.  Stay away from your fetchlands if you can, and only force if it will draw out one of their counters or stop Oath from hitting.  The trajectory of your life total in this matchup goes:  20--->14--->2--->-10.  Oath's strategy depends in no small part on the assumption that most players will do 2 to themselves within the first 3 turns of the game, thereby dying a turn earlier.  That single turn makes all the difference in the world.  Don't cost yourself that crucial opportunity by fetching unless you absolutely have to.  My whole point in this diatribe is that you should spend the 3-4 turns you have against Oath setting up Tinker for Platinum Angel, because Oath has virtually no answers once that happens.

The only other thing I'll add is, you don't need a Slavelock against Oath.  My personal strategy is to add 1 Tormod's Crypt to my deck after boarding and once Angel is down, to hang back and build up counters until I can force down a crypt.  Then all it takes is one slaving and the game's over.  This is much more manageable than trying to arrange an elaborate slave chain.

Oh, and Joblin Velder's post > All.

[jingles]

Well about that guy, I dont want to add salt an open wound. So i will say that it was all in good fun.    Good points about the deck however i may have over-emphasized the importance of the Stop Oath from coing down part.   Anyway thanks for the seccond thoughts.

[forests failed you]

I certainly agree the Oath matchup is winnable even after Oath of Druids hits play, however the primary concern, at least in game one, should be to stop Oath from hitting play.  Assuming they don't have everything they need to win in hand at the start of the game, usually the Oath player has to spend the first turn or two trying to get Oath and Orchard out of their deck.  Which, in the majority of games is more than enough time to get Mana Drain online.  Not to mention that Slavery also has Duress which is extremely strong in this matchup.  

I do, however, disagree with the claim that Oath of Druids is probably going to hit play with Orchard with Force of Will backup on turn two 50% of the time.  I have played the Slaver v. Oath matchup many, many times and it is extremely rare that the deck has everything it needs by turn two.  Statistically, Oath doesn't have all three cards in hand that fast, so realistically the window for getting a Plats is actually larger.

Personally, I believe it would be an error in stratagy to say that when the Slaver player sits down against an Oath player, that the primary objective of the Slaver player should be to not allow Oath to resolve.   Your opponent cannot win if they don't reslove Oath, and making the game state as such that your opponent can't win is extremely strong.  Plus, just because you have Platnium Angel doesn't equal game over, most Oath decks are playing with either Wish, naturalize, or Oxidize maindeck because of the strong presence of Welders in the metagame.  

It may also be worth noting when comparing these two decks that, especially post sideboard, Slavery has a better game versus Combo and Shop because of the inclusion of maindeck Welders.  Which, I think has a pretty strong influence on an arguement for the superiority of either deck.  

Stopping Oath should be objective #1, playing Tinker for Platnium Angel should only be a backup plan for when  Oath has already hit play.  Usually if my opponent doesn't already have Oath I will Tinker for Slaver, because it helps you win the game, and doesn't merely keep you from losing.

[StarOrc]

My experience with the Slaver vs Oath match-up has been completely unfavorable for the me (Slaver). Although I choose not to run Platinum Angel I'm not sure if this would affect the match-up as much as all of you think for a few reasons. 1 You only have 1 Tinker 1 Mystical and 1 Demonic so the likely hood of you drawing them in the first 3-4 turns and being able to cast them through Oaths counterwall isn't very likely and 2 As someone else already said most Oath decks are now running at least one maindecked answer 3 In my Testing, When Tinker comes up Slaver can ussually delay long enought to set up a Yawg Will for the game.

It seems to me that if the Oath player resolves an Oath before turn 3 then the Oath player is likely to win, However if the Oath player doesn't get Oath before then they are much more likely to lose. I really feel that game 1 is in Oath's favor, but when the Oath player sideboards in Pristine and Irridescent Angel the match completely switches to Slavers side because of the slower clock, if they choose to leave Akroma and Spirit in the match-up stays in their favor despite most things Slaver does outside of an exceptional draw.

Having said that, I still feel Control Slaver is the deck to play if you want to win a tournement because of its match-ups with the rest of the field. I don't think Control Slaver has any matches that are less than 50/50 other than possibly Oath and Deathlong. Oath on the other hand has worse matches against combo.

There are still reasons to play Oath, for example Oath is quite a bit easier to play than Slaver. Which leads to less mental fatigue over the course of a long tournement. Oath also tends to have good match-ups against most of Slaver's bad match-ups like 5/3 and Madness. Ita a bit more fun to kill people with Akroma and Spirit than to beat with 2 Goblin Welders for 10 turns as well.

Peace

Corey

[banks]

i alread posted this on another fourm but woulden't Guzzigost give you a better win against control slaver. Win with time walk and opt or whatever. It gives you more maindeck room too. Just a thought though.

[StarOrc]

With that kill as you suggested in the other thread, you aren't running Blessing. What happens when Control Slaver Echoing Truths the creature at the end of your turn when you have no cards in your library? Or they Ancestral Recall you during your upkeep? What happens if they counter the Opt?

The kill you suggested is more vunerable to counters and other random hate like Tormod's Crypt or Coffin Purge (Time Walk).

Peace

Corey

[Fall-Titan]

First thing to get off my chest and throw into the already exhausted subject is directed to banks.

Although that kill may not be widely accepted... good job on a semi-innovative idea that has probably been overlooked regardless of what criticism you will or have recieved.

Regarding the matchup analysis since that appears to be where this post has gone.

When you look at the basis of both decks in the mirror it boils down to a control on control matchup. Basically card advantage will win. If oath resolves on turn one sure the slaver player may have the oppurtunity of tinkering out plats etc. but oath is playing heavy control so the "Mother may I" factor is involved in most cases. Slaver would have a slight advantage in the matchup in my opinion because of the mass and varied draw engine that it has. Oath is backed into playing AK first in hopes of drawing more cards later which inevitably just helps the slaver player seeing as how they have fueled AKs (in certain builds) but also TFK etc to fall back on.

Lastly regarding the auriok salvanger version of oath.

The deck seems slower than meandeck oath. I realize that you have infinite mana (assuming lotus is in the yard) but your combo consists of 1-2 additional cards. If neither spellbomb is in the yard or lotus isnt in the yard after the first oath do you have a hard time winning against other matchups? I have not tested the deck so i will not act like an expert on it. These comments are purely drawn from observation of the decklist. But im curious on your general matchups excluding Slaver.

[Vood]

Congrats to all for posting the longuest replies ive ever seen on a topic.

I've been playing Control Slaver for the last 2 months and never lost to Oath in a tournament, simpy because Blood moon owns Oath. I always have 3 blood moon in the sideboard along with the 3 red elemental blast.

[IShHmokeDaNKs]

I have left this post go dormant in my embarrasment of my rulings error, however I realized most mistakes are better left corrected .  On to a much more on-topic debate:

How to Beat Control Slaver

It seems this deck is a monster. Shay Slaver has more resources, Team Gro slaver has better draw, I mean, how can a control deck compete? Though oath can start off broken, why not just play Deathlong, which is made to do that? I am really struggling with my build right now, and it seems nothing is working.

For example, I figure I can spice up the draw in the deck by adding a Fact or Fiction and two Deep Analysis. It failed, as the cards were way too clunky.

I tried to make the threat-base better by adding Tinker, and using Collosus as kill. It failed, as a resolved Goblin Welder smoked me.

The most effective was Duress. It won me AK mirrors, held it's own against combo and took a counter to go broken. However, it seemed unparreled with Goth's draw engine.

Fall-Titan:

The deck seems slower than meandeck oath. I realize that you have infinite mana (assuming lotus is in the yard) but your combo consists of 1-2 additional cards. If neither spellbomb is in the yard or lotus isnt in the yard after the first oath do you have a hard time winning against other matchups?

No, and it isn't slower. It can kill off the first oath activation, but it will kill after the second. I decided to not use this kill however, as an activated slaver is game-ending, and it is vulnerable to grave-yard hate.

Vood:

simpy because Blood moon owns Oath

I noticed   . This is the problem with Oath, unlike Slaver. Slaver is a better control deck because it has an answer for everything. This is what Mindslaver does. Mindslaver is the perfect card, it is the answer to every single thing you can name. I have played slaver staring down 2 Null Rod, a Gorilla Shaman, 6 cards in hand and Crucible of Worlds/Strip Mine and I still won (end step Echoing Truth Null Rod, three mox, lotus, Y. Will, Lotus, Time Walk, Tinker, Ancestral.). The deck is incredible with all of it's outs.

Corey:
I'll be at the Cape Cod tournament this Saturday, and I assume the Brockton crew will be playing Control Slaver in full force. I may or may not be playing Oath, we have been working on a deck named 'Cape Cod Surprise'. It's really interesting, and has been tweaked for over a month. I'm surprised you say Oath/slaver is 50/50, and even more surprised you talk about losing counterwars. I say this because Control Slaver has a lot more threats than Oath, but they are not game-ending. Slaver has Welders, Pentavus, FoF (control mirror) etc. Oath has four threats, but they are all game-ending. This makes Oath more prone to be beaten in a counter-war, and thus more vulnerable to less counters.

Demonic Attorney:
In well over half the games I've played against Oath, they've had Oath and Orchard down with Force backup by turn 2. Slaver is not built to stop that kind of opening. Instead, Slaver should focus on how to deal with this situation and concentrate all its efforts on maneuvering effectively within it

Exactly. I could not have said it better myself, Control Slaver has enough outs and reactiveness to over power even an Akroma and a Spirit of The Night turn 3. It's a remarkable deck. However, as a result of this, simple disruption like Duress, Force and mana Leak can over through a rather weak attempt to reprieve stability. I lost to 4cc today because I played first turn Oath off Oarchard, put him at two life (two oath activations). I have ten cards left. I say go, and eot he swords both of his tokens. He then drops balance. I activate Oath for Blessing, get it off and play Akroma again. He sets up Y. Will and wins. He should have just gone double sword on me big guys, as then I couldn't win.

Nonetheless, my point re-establishes Demonic Attorney's, 4cc is made to deal with that kind of start, Control Slaver isn't, so it has to go re-active crazy  to pull it off.

Thank you, by the way, for amplifying the redundancy in everyones willingness to feed one mistake like ravenous judges.

Guzzigost give you a better win against control slaver.

Corey covered this one for me   .

-ISD

[StarOrc]

My testing against Oath has been in two parts. The first part was with a friend were we both played Control Slaver vs Oath something like 10-15 times from each side of the match and the match was coming out it Oath's favor almost no matter what. This could have something to do with our inexperience with and against Oath. However in my second round of testing I'm still losing the Oath match-up, but I'm not playing against a skilled player now... I'm playing against my Girlfriend who is just starting to play the game. She is able to resolve an Oath early enough at which point my Card Draw is almost meaningless, unless I can quickly set up Welders and Time Walk with Counter back up and have something useful to do with them, she just counters things like Tinker/YawgWill/Echoing Truth(Depending) and finds Orchard and kills me.

IShHmokeDaNKs:
Most of controls Slaver's threats are meaningless if an Oath resolved because Welders and Pents will Trigger it and then you are in for it. I have however had a couple of games where I get 2 Welders and Pents and can kill whatever they Oath up, but that seems to be a little slow (11 tokens for Spirit, 12 for Akroma) and if they get double Oath it doesn't matter. About the counter wars, Oath just has more counters (4 Force, 3 MisD, 3 Counterspell, 3 Leak; Slaver has 4 Force 4 Drain) and since they don't bother to counter card draw that often while I have to counter their's they can still counter when it matters.

Peace

Corey

BTW: We may have a few surprises for the Cape this weekend as well.

[banks]

Thanks for the explination. I was just wondering if anyboddy have thought of it yet. Another idea against slavor would to splash red for Fire/ice against them. They can misdirect it to the tokerns but how many misdirections do they run 1,2 at the most. Also ice lets you tap their vocanic island during their upkeep so they cannot play welder for a turn. If u insist on playing black in oath maby side in a few Lose Hope for more welder control. Thanks
Banks

[The Atog Lord]

To me, so much of the match between Control Slaver against Oath comes down to whether Control Slaver runs Platinum Angel. This past weekend, at YMG, I decided against including her in my deck. And she laughed at me from my binder as Oath was my one match loss of the day.

Control Slaver often has a difficult time racing and preventing the Oath/Orchard combo from hitting. Because of Oath's great counter base, the two casting cost spell will often get forced through. And unless the Control Slaver build includes Blood Moon, it has no answers to Orchard. Even with Blood Moon, the Moon needs to resolve before the Oath player uses an Orchard once.

Platnum Angel changes the dynamic, however. Corey pointed out that Pentavus has no easy time handling the monsters that Oath creatures. Sundering titan? He just watches the Angel and Demon fly overhead.

That leaves that Cybernetic descendant of Ali from Cairo to save the day. Some Oath builds flat out scoop to her. The "Official" lists from days back have no answer to her. However, even against builds that employ a single answer to her such as Capsize, she is still very often strong enough to give the game to Control Slaver. Even when she can be removed by Oath, she will most often bring the game into the mid-to-late game state. And while Oath can have an explosive early game, the mid to late game certainly belongs to Control Slaver. By extending the game long enough for Control Slaver to get its engines online, she usually wins it for Slaver.

[cosineme]

I noticed Wink . This is the problem with Oath, unlike Slaver. Slaver is a better control deck because it has an answer for everything. This is what Mindslaver does. Mindslaver is the perfect card, it is the answer to every single thing you can name. I have played slaver staring down 2 Null Rod, a Gorilla Shaman, 6 cards in hand and Crucible of Worlds/Strip Mine and I still won (end step Echoing Truth Null Rod, three mox, lotus, Y. Will, Lotus, Time Walk, Tinker, Ancestral.). The deck is incredible with all of it's outs.

====
I don't understand anything you said here. You are talking about the strength of slaving somebody (definately!), however, in this particular situation, you won with a yawg win...really!? a resolved yawg win won you the game?! that situation you described could be applied almost infinitely to any other deck that runs blue (and black).

aside from that, good post.

[Vood]

Am I the only one running duplicant main deck? The little doppleganger is doing the job against both welders and Oath. Even better, you can recur it with Welder.

My Creature base :

4 welders
1 Duplicant
1 Triskelion
1 Platinum angel

[jingles]

The duplicant is a wise choice and obviously a powerful card in the right meta. Personally I dont think its that needed main deck.

Pending the meta your playing the duplicant is a sideboard card. If the meta is Heavy Oath then sure throw one in the board however the way slaver runs is so tight that giving up a spot  for the dupe is hard for me to see. Im running a version of goth slaver and I have not had a problem with oath. I do however have the option of wishing for answers and that changes the way the deck plays alot. I have found that wishing for an answer to most problems is better then having a dead draw VS any deck.

Take for instance TPS what is the dupe gona do for you there?? or Doomsday??  What about dragon?  I know that Its kinda tired but what about Belcher?   Any thats my piont that I try not to have a dead draw against any deck in the format. Although I am currious to see how you run the rest of your deck because it might help make your choices make more sence.