Big B/R changes coming 3/1 for type II (does anyone care?)

[Machinus]

I just got out of the quarterly Events Team meeting that handles the management of the Banned and Restricted Lists, and we've finally decided to put our collective feet down. On March 1st, we will be announcing major changes to the Banned List that should finally correct what has been an egregious problem with Standard over the past year.

[CF]

Bye-bye affinity. :o)

I only play t2 at (the Norwegian) nationals, but that's more than enough to be happy about this change.

--
Chris

[Toad]

It's kinda weird they are doing this now because Modular is clearly not dominating anymore. Nevertheless, Modular was putting strong constraints on decbuilding and made a lot of cool decks unplayable, so I will not blame them from banning stuff in Modular.

I just hope they don't ban Arcbound Ravager or Disciple of the Vault, because that would be terrible. Artifact lands obviously have to go.

[rvs]

I just hope they don't ban Arcbound Ravager or Disciple of the Vault, because that would be terrible. Artifact lands obviously have to go.

I disagree. There is no reason to kill KCI, since it's a pretty fair and disruptable combo deck, even for T2.

[Triple_S]

I have a feeling that KCI will get hit with the splash damage from R&D breaking up the stranglehold affinity has had on the format for the last year or two.  While it does stink, I think it would be similar to someone complaining about the impact of no Ritual on Sui-black:  its for the good of the format in the end.

[Razvan]

I am just afraid that they might do something rash to T1 as well, since they just might get carried away...

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Well I agree with Toad on this one, the lands are the big culprits.

And sadly KCI might have to take one for the team, just like madness took one when LED got nerfed because of Long.

[rvs]

To be honest, it doesn't *have* to be that way in T1. I think they should just hit Disciple and I suppose Cranial Plating. If they hit plating, they can even leave Ravager alone I think.

[Toad]

The artifact lands are a terrible design mistake since they basically produce 2 manas with the correct cards (Frogmite, Thoughtcast, Myr Enforcer) in early game and are turned into Battlegrowth and Kodama's Might in late game.

And based on my own testings, KCI is better than Modular in many matchups. Good Modular players would switch to KCI if Disciple or Ravager are banned, and the other archetypes would still be forced to maindeck Oxidize / Viridian Shaman / Annul to fight it. The constraints on deck design would basically remain the same. And If Disciple of the Vault gets axed, KCI becames faster because a first turn Disciple of the Vault was a nightmare for it. No need for Leonin Elders or Seething Song + Furnace Dragon in the SB either, hence more slots to get a better sideboard against Tooth and Nails and Ponza variants.

[mrieff]

To be honest, it doesn't *have* to be that way in T1. I think they should just hit Disciple and I suppose Cranial Plating. If they hit plating, they can even leave Ravager alone I think.

No, Ravager and Disciple OR the artifact lands. Plating is an annoying but  overcomeable loss (Shrapnel Blast)

Affinity is the largest screw-up since Saga. That cleary makes their excellent work on the more recent sets quite less an achievement, because it shows that they can't keep up the upward trend for good.

[Komatteru]

I don't think they really want to ban the artifact lands, in principle.  In the December banning announcement, Forsythe wrote this:

Most people involved in the DCI felt that one or more of the “marquee” Ravager Affinity cards--Disciple of the Vault, Arcbound Ravager, and Cranial Plating--should be singled out. That list was quickly expanded to include Aether Vial and Thoughtcast for consideration. I, on the other hand, was the front man for the faction that felt the five colored artifact lands (Vault of Whispers, et al), were the real culprits and deserved to get the axe. For what it's worth, both sides' arguments had problems.
...
There can be no doubt that banning the five colored artifact lands would rid the world of Affinity. Of course, Ironworks would go away as well. Big Red decks could still play Darksteel Citadels and Talismans to support Shrapnel Blast, and most other decks could loosen up on the artifact hate.
...
We like to avoid having to solve problems by banning cards, as that leads to a culture of fear. We certainly don't want people to start believing that all the good cards they own are in the crosshairs of the DCI. With that in mind, can you imagine the weird backlash that would happen if we banned artifact lands? Most players that aren't into the tournament scene would have no idea at all why we did this. Tree of Tales is banned?! It's one of the most powerful cards ever?! Are you kidding me?! While it would certainly solve the problem on the top end, it would alienate and confuse people elsewhere.

Losing Great Furnace would hurt red decks quite a bit (Darksteel Citadel takes away a bit of the deck's consistency).  I think R&D would like to see how good Ironworks could be, as the deck generated quite a buzz when first released, but died to splash damage from Ravager (I stopped playing it when like 10 cards were coming in against me, all meant for Ravager).  When they do ban, they are going to sweep heavily.  If the artifact lands don't go, then Disciple, Ravager, Plating, and maybe Frogmite all need to go.  However, they will ban whatever they feel they need to, and I am pretty confident that they will get it right (they've had a lot of time to think about this).

[Matt]

That cleary makes their excellent work on the more recent sets quite less an achievement, because it shows that they can't keep up the upward trend for good.

I for one am more than glad they made mistakes. I would rather them try new things and make mistakes than play it safe all the time.

[Zherbus]

Well said, Matt. Those mistakes are the corner-stones of type 1. In essence, our format is about balancing mistakes with other mistakes.

[dandan]

Nods in total agreement. Wizards have been pushing the envelope a lot recently (well, apart from the current theme block), no mistakes means too many boring cards.

Vintage - the format where Balance is broken.

[BWM]

They should've just reprinted Powder Keg...

[Jacob Orlove]

They should've just reprinted Powder Keg...

It's on the reserved list. They got a lot of flak for even printing the promo foil keg.

[Matt]

Vintage - the format where Balance is broken.

Is that supposed to say "where Balance isn't broken?"

[BWM]

They should've just reprinted Powder Keg...

It's on the reserved list. They got a lot of flak for even printing the promo foil keg.

Yes, there's one little rule which prevents WotC to fix their own mistakes...

I really don't see the problem, the whole idea of a reserved list is bad, they should've named it "The list of cards we will probably not reprint" and than just reprint powder keg in 5th dawn...

But than again, they could've just reprinted Powder Keg under another name, right?

[Toad]

Engineered Explosives blowing lands would have been hot !

EDIT.
I think banning Seat of the Synod would be enough. Modular would be forced to stop most of the cards that allows it to dodge hate, that is Thoughtcast and Mana Leak (if used, SB). KCI would also be severely hit by splash damage and would actually become unplayable. A watered-down Modular build would still be playable (going more aggressive with Great Furnace and Shrapnel Blast) but would also be more vulnerable to hate.

Aether Vial is also pretty damn broken. In Standard and in Extended.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

I think they need to hit artifact lands and Disciple. Hitting lands alone, won't really get the job done, as there are many other busted cheap artifacts in standard (Mox, Sphere, Mantle, Vial), and affinity would just morph and adapt. I think at that point it'd be even better vs. decks like Tooth and nail, that rely on early blockers (mainly sakura) to hold off attacks (seeing as how you are probably going to run plating + thopter). Disciple needs to go, because it's simply too broken. Affinity is much less likely to go broken if it doesn't see a disciple.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Vial got the axe. It basically makes control decks unviable.

Last, I think wizards NEEDS to do something about ravager in Extended. I recently got 10th at a PTQ with basic ravager and would have T8ed if I didn't face Life in round 6. My point here is that affinity is pretty busted in extended, and after the rotation, affinity loses NOTHING while all the hate, ie. Pulverize, Energy Flux, Powder Keg, Meltdown, Rack and Ruin, Rebuild, all rotate out. With a huge absence of universal hate, you better believe ravager will be top dog in extended as well.

-Bob

[rozetta]

They could have reprinted Null Rod and killed two birds with one stone...

[thecapn]

Someone suggested that they might bring back a restricted list for type 2, restricting things like the artifact lands and maybe some of the other problematic cards.  I thought that was a really interesting idea.