Not all of those received the Ted Knutson Seal of Approval. Here's the whole conversation:
[02:46] <12knutgone> Card has 2 good books
[02:46] <12knutgone> and a lot of fluff
[02:46] <12knutgone> but those 2
[02:46] <12[Klep]> orson scott card is a good writer
[02:46] <12knutgone> wow
[02:47] <12[Klep]> but a complete nut
[02:47] <13Anu|Sleep> which are the 2 good? Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow?
[02:47] <12[Klep]> he's a total fundie asshole
[02:47] <04j_orlove> ender's game is insane
[02:47] <12knutgone> Ender and Speaker
[02:47] <13Anu|Sleep> Speaker was AWFUL
[02:47] <12Veggies> omg
[02:47] <12knutgone> if you don't like Speaker, I can't be friends with you
[02:47] <12Veggies> enderrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[02:47] <12Veggies> Ender's Game is the best one by far
[02:47] <12Veggies> by FAR
[02:47] <13Anu|Sleep> knut: You know how he tries to pull the mother of all reversals in that?
[02:47] <04j_orlove> I just read speaker recently
[02:48] <12Veggies> Speaker I thought was good
[02:48] <04j_orlove> haven't read the other two yet
[02:48] <12Veggies> Xenocide was horrible
[02:48] <12Veggies> I wish I hadn't read it
[02:48] <12knutgone> speaker is very philosophical
[02:48] <12[Klep]> things get weird in the second two
[02:48] <12knutgone> Xenocide is in fact quite bad
[02:48] <12knutgone> but it's a half book
[02:48] <04j_orlove> the library was hiding speaker as part of a two-book volume
[02:48] <13Anu|Sleep> Ender's Shadow was savagely good
[02:48] <12knutgone> xeno + children is at least ... readable
[02:48] <12Veggies> the only part about it I liked was Wang Mu and that other chinese girl's side story
[02:48] <04j_orlove> so I didn't find it forever
[02:48] <12Veggies> that was intresting
[02:48] <12knutgone> Shadow is not savagely good
[02:48] <12knutgone> it's fine
[02:48] <12Veggies> children was a decent end
[02:48] <12knutgone> a nice continuation
[02:48] * Quits: AtogLord (~sp4matog@pool-141-154-76-71.bos.east.verizon.net)
[02:48] <12Veggies> shadow is like ender's game, but worse
[02:48] <12knutgone> but not laudable
[02:49] <13Anu|Sleep> But the thing about Speaker was that I picked up on the flawed assumptions immediately, so the whole book I was just pissed at the dumb main characters
[02:49] <12[Klep]> ted: what of his non-ender stuff have you read?
[02:49] <12Veggies> the rest of the bean books aren't that good
[02:49] <13Anu|Sleep> I
[02:49] <12Veggies> shadow of the hegemon was bad except for one character
[02:49] <13Anu|Sleep> I've read the first 2 Alvin Maker, and they're alright, but not nearly as good as the story in legends
[02:49] <12Veggies> shadow puppets was decent
[02:49] <12Veggies> shadow of the giant I hope is good
[02:49] <12knutgone> klep: lovelocke (good), alvin maker (crazy mormon shit), uh wyrms, prob about 3-4 others
[02:50] <12[Klep]> have you read any of the Homecoming stuff?
[02:50] <12knutgone> while on or not on the subject... I really don't care for piers anthony but his space opera and book 1 (time) and 6 (satan) of Incarnations of Immortality are most excellent
[02:50] <12knutgone> oh yeah, all of homecoming
[02:51] <12knutgone> like, I mostly just missed his short stories and his alt history
[02:51] * Quits: nialo (~nialo@ool-18b882c3.dyn.optonline.net) ([23:40] <OftenLost> HOLY FUCKIGN SHIT [23:40] <OftenLost> MY SCHOOL JUST BURNED DOWN [23:40] <OftenLost> omg)
[02:51] <13Anu|Sleep> I only read book 1 because my brother lost 2, but incarnations is good. It's just really glaring where he could go and make it excellent
[02:51] <13Anu|Sleep> Like his random combat sequences that don't advance the plot and aren't well-written.
[02:51] <12[Klep]> most of the best scifi is short stories
[02:51] <12knutgone> some of the best sci fi you'll ever read is The Sparrow
[02:52] <13Anu|Sleep> by?
[02:52] <12knutgone> Mary Doria Russell
[02:52] <12knutgone> she broke the format
[02:52] <13Anu|Sleep> never heard of it. I'll look into it
[02:52] <12knutgone> you'll be back in 2 weeks
[02:52] <12knutgone> saying "Oh. My. God. You MUST read this book"
[02:52] <12[Klep]> my favorite scifi writer is, and probably always will be, Asimov
[02:52] <13Anu|Sleep> Let's be honest. The best sci-fi is probably either Asimov or Dick, and if you want some really hardcore stuff, Gibson's Neuromancer is one of the best sci-fi books EVER
[02:53] <12knutgone> Read Russell
[02:53] <04j_orlove> women tend to be better scifi/fantasy writers than men, in my experience
[02:53] <12knutgone> then we'll talk
[02:53] <12knutgone> and if Vernor Vinge isn't on your list
[02:53] <04j_orlove> asimov is good
[02:53] <12knutgone> you haven't read enough
[02:53] <04j_orlove> omg <3333333333 vinge
[02:53] <13Anu|Sleep> hrm, I've never heard of Venge. *starts writing down*
[02:53] <04j_orlove> gibson's newer stuff is crazy
[02:53] <12knutgone> well start with Heinlein's best stuff
[02:53] * Joins: MadWombat (~pauld@rn-cltj115.uwaterloo.ca)
[02:53] <12knutgone> he's easy to get into
[02:53] <12[Klep]> remind me in a few months when i have time to read books again
[02:53] <12knutgone> then Read Armor by John Steakley
[02:54] <13Anu|Sleep> I don't like some of his newer stuff. the problem is neuromancer is his best
[02:54] <12knutgone> then read Vinge's 2 masterpieces in Deepness in the Sky
[02:54] <13Anu|Sleep> knut: He's not THAT easy to get into
[02:54] <12knutgone> and A Fire Upon the Deep
[02:54] <13Godder> no matter how I write it, "I like Dick" can't avoid connotations
[02:54] <04j_orlove> those books are so good
[02:54] <04j_orlove> read Fire first
[02:54] <12knutgone> Heinlein's good stuff is mary poppins
[02:54] <12knutgone> practically perfect in ever way
[02:54] <12knutgone> every
[02:54] <12knutgone> so Starship Troopers and Stranger
[02:54] <13Anu|Sleep> Starship Troopers might be one of the best things I've ever read too
[02:55] <12knutgone> if you liked Starship
[02:55] <13Anu|Sleep> I read Stranger too young. I need to re-read it
[02:55] <12knutgone> then Armor should be da bomb
[02:55] <12[Klep]> starship troopers is really good
[02:55] <12knutgone> Dick is obvious
[02:55] * Quits: Dirty_Tog (~Raothi@findley.bw.edu) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[02:55] <13Anu|Sleep> Dick gets BUTCHERED by movies
[02:55] <12knutgone> but if you like PK (and you should) move on to Alfred Bester
[02:55] <04j_orlove> vinge's short stories are also quality stuff
[02:55] <12knutgone> I'd say more about Dick
[02:55] <13Anu|Sleep> as if Asimov didn't...
[02:55] <12knutgone> but everybody knows him now that 2000 movies have been made
[02:55] <12knutgone> 1999 of them bad
[02:56] <13Anu|Sleep> the movies are some bad though, except Blade Runner, which is a classic
[02:56] <13Anu|Sleep> okay, let's be honest
[02:56] * Anu|Sleep is now known as Anusien
[02:56] <12knutgone> heh
[02:56] <12knutgone> another obvious one that gets overlooked
[02:56] <12knutgone> is Stephenson
[02:56] <13Anusien> was about to say
[02:57] <12knutgone> he rarely goes wrong
[02:57] <12knutgone> oh oh
[02:57] <13Anusien> Stephenson is a really fricking hard read. I'm devoting the summer to the Baroque Cycle
[02:57] <12knutgone> favorite fantasy writer: Robin Hobb
[02:57] <12knutgone> bar none
[02:57] <04j_orlove> book titles?
[02:57] <12knutgone> The Assassin series
[02:57] <04j_orlove> because that name doesn't sound familiar
[02:57] <12knutgone> uh Liveship Traders
[02:57] <13Anusien> for stephenson: Snow Crash
[02:57] <12knutgone> and the Fool series
[02:57] <12knutgone> all the same world
[02:58] <12knutgone> The Assassin series is _hard core_
[02:58] <12knutgone> like you will feel PAIN for her characters in that one
[02:58] <12knutgone> but don't stop there
[02:58] <12knutgone> because they stay very good
[02:58] <04j_orlove> sweet
[02:58] <13Anusien> I feel need to mention Firefly in case anyone here hasn't watched it yet.
[02:58] * Joins: Pyroman_ (~Hero@t1939.chem.tue.nl)
[02:58] <12knutgone> Steve Brust is also good stuff
[02:58] <12knutgone> though I really dislike his Dumas-language works
[02:58] <04j_orlove> my local library better have some of this stuff
[02:58] <12[Klep]> oh yeah
[02:58] <12[Klep]> i love Brust
[02:58] <12[Klep]> i don't
[02:59] <12[Klep]> i got onto him thanks to the Phoenix Guards
[02:59] <12knutgone> heh
[02:59] <12[Klep]> my copy of that is sorely worn due to overreading
[02:59] <13Godder> I own Firefly, if you mean the TV show
[02:59] <13Anusien> Bruce Sterling, 'Schismatrix' was really good but really really weird.
[02:59] <13Anusien> godder: yes
[02:59] <12knutgone> I tried 150 pages of Phoenix Guards and got bo9red
[02:59] <12[Klep]> i couldn't put it down
[02:59] <12knutgone> but I go through those phases
[02:59] <13Godder> it's a great show
[02:59] <13Godder> IMO
[02:59] <12knutgone> firefly breaks my heart
[03:00] <12knutgone> because the concubine was incredibly hot
[03:00] <12knutgone> the show found it's stride about 5 eps in
[03:00] <12knutgone> but nobody watched except me and 900k other people
[03:00] <13Anusien> I almost linked her in an article, but I just can't do the cheesecake thing for shit
[03:00] <12knutgone> all you assholes who werren't watching but love it now got it cancelled
[03:00] <13Godder> I live in NZ
[03:00] <13Godder> I watch
[03:00] <13Anusien> also, surprisingly there aren't any hot pictures of her on the net
[03:00] <12knutgone> fuck you too, sparky
[03:00] <13Godder> I bought it as soon as it was available
[03:00] <12knutgone> shoulda been watching
[03:00] <12knutgone> it was ON FOX!
[03:00] <13Godder> I couldn't
[03:00] <12knutgone> ;)
[03:01] <13Godder> it's only just started its first run here
[03:01] <12knutgone> ah
[03:01] <12[Klep]> btw, before we leave the topic of fantasy writers for good, let's get some love for prachett
[03:01] <12knutgone> yeah yeah
[03:01] <12knutgone> prachett ha ha
[03:01] <13Godder> May Serenity do well
[03:01] <13Godder> and the sequels
[03:01] <13Anusien> I got started on Pratchett late and haven't read all of it yet
[03:01] <12knutgone> good omens, wonderful work
[03:01] <12[Klep]> Anusien: same
[03:01] <04j_orlove> the only pratchett book I liked was the one he did with Gaiman
[03:01] <12knutgone> Stardust by gaiman - very readable stuff
[03:01] <04j_orlove> <3 gaiman
[03:01] <12[Klep]> i only have a little more than a dozen of his stuff so far
[03:01] <04j_orlove> sandman is so good
[03:01] <13Anusien> speaking of which, my copy of good omens is halfway there...
[03:01] <12knutgone> yes
[03:01] <12knutgone> Morita IS the Sandman
[03:01] <13Anusien> Okay, now here's a decisive subject: The Dune sequels
[03:01] <12knutgone> he's Dream
[03:02] <12knutgone> boooo
[03:02] <12[Klep]> i haven't read them
[03:02] <04j_orlove> oh, and on comics
[03:02] <12knutgone> no dune sequels
[03:02] <12knutgone> bad bad bad
[03:02] <04j_orlove> <3 transmetropolitan
[03:02] <12[Klep]> but i agree with tycho on most things
[03:02] <13Anusien> knut: how far did you get?
[03:02] <12knutgone> which series?
[03:02] <04j_orlove> the new dune stuff is an ABOMINATION
[03:02] <04j_orlove> ugh
[03:02] <12[Klep]> so when he says they're fucking frank herbert's corpse, iall go with it
[03:02] <13Anusien> old dune sequels
[03:02] <12knutgone> new series is unreadable
[03:02] <04j_orlove> awful, AWFUL writing, and worse everythign else
[03:02] <13Anusien> Old Dune. The first person to mention Kevin J. Anderson gets shot in the head
[03:02] <12knutgone> first series - I read through God Emperor
[03:02] <12knutgone> my wife made it through them all
[03:02] <13Anusien> oh. Understandable
[03:02] <04j_orlove> I read through all the sequels
[03:02] <12[Klep]> i haven't read the 4th and 5th
[03:02] <12[Klep]> i think
[03:03] <13Anusien> the last book was incredibly good, and made up for how dry (but incredibly good) God Emperor was
[03:03] <12knutgone> no need
[03:03] <12[Klep]> i may have read the 4th in high school
[03:03] <12knutgone> 3 is as far as you shuld go
[03:03] <12[Klep]> yeah, that's what i've been told
[03:03] <13Anusien> disagree
[03:03] <13Anusien> I think I just have one beef with Herbert, and that's that he tells you the entire plot. Especially the original Dune
[03:03] <12knutgone> I'll argue til I'm blue in the face that 1 is one of the t5 ever
[03:03] <12knutgone> and that 2 is excellent
[03:03] <04j_orlove> Dune was amazing
[03:04] <12[Klep]> yeah
[03:04] <12[Klep]> truly incredible book
[03:04] <13Anusien> Liked 3 > 2, if I'm remembering exactly.
[03:04] <12knutgone> but you cannot tell me that the rest of the books are remotely good reads outside of the fact you are married to the world because it's cool as hell
[03:04] <04j_orlove> agree
[03:04] <04j_orlove> but oh man is it ever
[03:04] <12knutgone> OFC
[03:04] <12knutgone> heh
[03:04] <13Anusien> knut: get past God Emperor of Dune, to Bashar Teg and the Honored Matres
[03:04] <12knutgone> no time
[03:04] <12knutgone> neeeext
[03:04] <13Anusien> But yeah, Dune bugs me, because in the first <50 pages, he goes, "Here's the entire plot".
[03:05] <04j_orlove> books 4-6 really aren't worth it
[03:05] <12knutgone> I've been cheesing it up lately
[03:05] <12knutgone> with David Gemmell
[03:05] <12knutgone> and Farland
[03:05] <04j_orlove> oh man gemmell
[03:05] <13Anusien> haven't read gemmell, and I have no excuse because I think my brother owns the books
[03:05] <04j_orlove> I've read a ton of his stuff
[03:05] <12knutgone> and uh... oh, I read all of Thomas Covenant
[03:05] <13Anusien> ?
[03:05] <12knutgone> which is as painful as the Hobb books
[03:05] <12knutgone> and not quite as reqarding
[03:05] <12knutgone> but his prose and vocabulary are enormous
[03:06] <13Anusien> Oh, I went old school and read Ringworld, and I'm borrowing Mote in God's Eye from a cute girl. Niven is great.
[03:06] <12knutgone> I like Gemmell - just simple pulp fiction
[03:06] <04j_orlove> yeah
[03:06] <04j_orlove> so much fun
[03:06] <12knutgone> the book I have next to me that I really need to just take a day and settle into
[03:06] <12knutgone> is China Mieville's Perdido Street Station
[03:06] <12knutgone> because I know it will be good
[03:06] <12knutgone> but I haven't done it yet
[03:06] <12knutgone> so it's slow starting
[03:07] <12knutgone> Note is very good
[03:07] <12knutgone> Mote too
[03:07] <13Anusien> it's slow-starting
[03:07] <12knutgone> I like the Dorsai series as well
[03:07] <13Anusien> dorsai?
[03:07] <12knutgone> but I think I'm a sucker for military sci fi
[03:07] <12knutgone> Gordon R. Dickson
[03:07] <13Anusien> ah
[03:07] <12knutgone> anyway, you need to sleep
[03:08] <12knutgone> but start with Russell and The Sparrow
[03:08] <13Anusien> I haven't read much military sci-fi, but Ender's Game and Starship Troopers is encouraging
[03:08] <12knutgone> read Vinge, Heinlein, Robin Hobb
[03:08] <13Anusien> Ehh, classes aren't till late
[03:08] <12knutgone> and then work on the rest of what we mentioned
[03:08] <13Godder> sleep is bad
[03:08] <12knutgone> oh and Armor by John Steakley
[03:08] <13Anusien> I have like Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Stranger in a Strange Land at home, that I'll grab on the 4th
[03:08] <13Godder> it allowsyou to function properly
[03:08] <12knutgone> can't forget that one - nobody knows about him
[03:09] <13Anusien> knut: i grabbed the entire list from this conversation
[03:09] <12knutgone> good good
[03:07] <12knutgone> anyway, you need to sleep
[03:08] <12knutgone> but start with Russell and The Sparrow
[03:08] <12knutgone> read Vinge, Heinlein, Robin Hobb
[03:08] <12knutgone> oh and Armor by John Steakley
[03:08]<12knutgone> and then work on the rest of what we mentioned
