Aluren vs Trinisphere

[Triple_S]

I just want to double check I understand the interaction of these two cards properly.

Aluren
Any player may play creature cards with converted mana cost 3 or less without paying their mana cost any time he or she could play an instant

Trinisphere
As long as Trinisphere is untapped, each spell that would cost less than three mana to play costs three mana to play. (Additional mana in the cost may be paid with any color of mana or colorless mana. For example, a spell that would cost  to play costs  to play instead.)

Aluren reduces your cost to 0 and enables you play the creatures at instant speed.  However Trinisphere adds three the mana cost so they would have to pay the three to cast the spell, but it would be three of any color.  And they could cast the creatures at instant speed.

Correct?

[Necrologia]

Seems right to me. All creatures of converted mana cost 3 or less can be played as instants, then get the cost bumped to 3 by Trinisphere.

[Komatteru]

Yes, Trinisphere makes Aluren suck hardcore.  We had an argument over this once, and apparently a Level 5 judge said over AIM that this is not correct, but if you check Saturday School, you can find it on there.

The following rule is the best way to deal with Trinisphere: It is completely impossible to pay less than 3 mana (perhaps in addition to other costs) for any spell when there is a Trinisphere in play.  No exceptions.

[Nibble]

The following rule is the best way to deal with Trinisphere: It is completely impossible to pay less than 3 mana (perhaps in addition to other costs) for any spell when there is a Trinisphere in play.  No exceptions.

/me is a wiseass and says 'What if the 3sphere is tapped?'

But honestly, that is indeed a pretty good rule to teach. No 2-mana spells with Helm of Awakening, no free creatures with Aluren, no free Force of Wills when acc'd. Trinisphere is deliberately the absolute last effect applied, no matter what.

[Rico Suave]

Actually, you can play ESG under Trinisphere without paying mana.

Otherwise, yes, Trinisphere trumps every other card in print right now.

[Jebus]

Actually, you can play ESG under Trinisphere without paying mana.

Otherwise, yes, Trinisphere trumps every other card in print right now.

What are you trying to say?  ESG costs three mana.  It isn't going to be affected by Trinisphere under normal circumstances.

[Godder]

I think he means ESG's RFG ability to make G .

[Jebus]

I think he means ESG's RFG ability to make G .

That's not relevant.  That isn't a spell.

[Godder]

I know that, and you know that, but you asked "what are you trying to say?" I assumed that that was what he was trying to say - that ESG is the only mana accelerant that still works. Trinisphere doesn't affect lands either, so perhaps a better way is needed:

Trinisphere's Golden Rule
First apply all other effects to the cost of a given spell. Then apply Trinisphere's effect.

[Rico Suave]

I'm sorry, I should have been clearer.  The real use for ESG is the mana ability.  In Vintage, ESG may as well be a green Lotus Petal in terms of it's purpose.

I was just trying to put a little bit of context into the discussion.  I didn't include cycling cards because nobody uses cycling cards to combat Trinisphere, although I suppose on second thought that land-cycling cards could theoretically be used to make sure of a 3rd land drop.