Meddling Mage: What to name against CS?

[Nastaboi]

You are playing with Bird Sh*t (or another aggro-control deck with Mages) against Control Slaver. You go first and resolve a second turn Meddling Mage with StP and FoW in hand (and plenty of Welder removal in your library). Your opponent has nothing in play but an Island.

What do you name with Mage? Do you just name Welder, or do you neuter their draw (Thirst, Intuition) and hope to plow any Welders drawn? What if you do not have StP right on? Or if you have second Mage to play next turn, do you just name Welder with the first and Tinker with the second? Does it matter if they are playing Intuition or Shay Slaver?

[Freelancer]

Personally I would name in this case with the first meddling mage mana drain (bird sh*t doesn't play drain so yeah) restricting both there ability to generate insane amounts off mana and stopping your offense (future mages) and with the second mage I will probably either go for there draw engines or tinker depending on the game state at that point...(ie. did they already cast lots of draw than name tinker or is it still early in the game -turn 2/3- and have they yet to cast any draw than name thirst for knowledge)

Note: this is pure from a theoretical vieuwpoint since I have never actually casted a meddling mage against control slaver...

[Necrologia]

I've only tested Mage vs. non-Intuition build of Slaver. There Thirst is the first thing I'll name. The deck thrives on draw, and cutting into that while stranding expensive artifacts in their hand can buy you some time. That's not to say that CS just rolls over to it, the deck is much more consistent than that. Drawing up to 8 or Simply draining into a fatty are both still possible.

[warble]

If they have kept a 7 card hand and played only island go, I would name Mana Drain.  However, if this is after a couple of mulligans and the hand size is down to 6 or even 5 then name thirst or welder.  This is because you can beatdown with your mage and hold out against a drain.  Consider your options and your opponent.

If your opponent is the type of player who will hold out for a third turn tinker (stupid control play personally) then name welder because you've won against anything but your own stupidity then.  However, I really can't see a control slaver playing a 7 card hand without drain if they drop a solitary island on the first draw.  Another thing to consider is control slaver can't kill your mage without trisk or fire/dart/wish/whatever.  Therefore limiting his counters to 4(FoW) will almost always win you the game if you've resolved meddling mage.

Considering the particular scenario you describe, the only option is to name mana drain unfortunately.  If he goes off with mox+mox+mox+jar next turn you're screwing yourself just as a warning.  It is always safer to name welder, but drain is in this scenario the proper choice.

[Draven]

Here is the example I came up with last week. I resolved a first turn Cranial Extraction (Land + Lotus) against CS naming Welder. Would Drain/ FoW been a better target? I ended up winning the game but I wrecked him with Wastelands so I don't know if it was the CE or the Wastes. What would others do in the same situation (first turn resolved Crainaial Extraction.)

[Harlequin]

Here is the example I came up with last week. I resolved a first turn Cranial Extraction (Land + Lotus) against CS naming Welder. Would Drain/ FoW been a better target? I ended up winning the game but I wrecked him with Wastelands so I don't know if it was the CE or the Wastes. What would others do in the same situation (first turn resolved Crainaial Extraction.)

If you solid in your ability to survive a single late game mind slave, then nameing welder seems pritty good to me.  they have to win with pentabeat (unless im forgetting a win).  But If you have things that will result in a 1 slave loss/crippling (ie channel, bargin, necropotence, tog, etc), then name something like thirst, slow them down.  you dont want to loose a game because the CS player drained into 3 or 4 mana and slaved you once, then brainstorm into demonic for channel and add 100 mana to your pool.

[Draven]

Naw, I was playing 3 color control, so I really don't have a crippiling 1 play. The worst is maybe to use up a Will, but other than that, no insta-lose.

[E Face]

I personally sweat Meddling Mages, and I have played numerous games agianst CS.

The problem is though, without knowledge of whats in their hand, it makes it incredibly difficult to determine what the proper call for a Mage is. You may call Welder then they tinker for the nuts, or you call Thirst and they Drain into an Intuition. The problem that the Mages face is that CS is just so powerful and resistant that there is no ideal play. I typically like to call Thirst first, simply because many decks that run Mages run plenty of counter and draw, and calling TFK will give you a slight advantage to out-draw and out-counter them.

But really, the first Mage is typically a shot into the dark unless one of the prime Mage targets has already resolved.

[Un4givenKnight]

But really, the first Mage is typically a shot into the dark unless one of the prime Mage targets has already resolved.

On this note, how about Extract as a potential ally, albeit not necessarily in Aggro/Control, for Meddling Mage? Turn 1 you get a neutered Cranial Extraction, but you also get a one use Glasses of Urza do to the redundancy of every decent deck in this metagame. This allows you to A) figure out what they're playing (seeing as a turn 1 Island, Go doesnt scream CS to me at least, and B) figure out what to Meddling Mage for on the next turn.

[MrZuccinniHead]

I would name Drain first and then second Welder or Thirst (or intuition if they have training wheels).

[Nastaboi]

Time to add my own thoughts from my limited testing.

Another thing to consider is control slaver can't kill your mage without trisk or fire/dart/wish/whatever.

CS can kill your Mage with one Slaver activation, making you StP your own Mage. Banning Welder is never game over. I lean towards calling TFK or Drain more and more.

Remember, you are playing aggro-control. Your goal is not to knock your opponent completely out of contest. Your goal is to keep your opponent not playing his game long enough to beat him down with your critters. If we sort these candidates, we have:

Goblin Welder: threat.
Mana Drain: answer.
Thirst of Knowledge: draw.

Thus naming Welder would be more controlling route, because we are pre-emptively answering their threats. Instead, by naming Drain we restrict their ability to answer our threats. By naming Thirst we restrict the availability of their answers and threats. In two last scenarios they cannot answer all our threats, and we can save our counters for their bombs while beating them down.

[miki]

Thirst for Knowledge , Goblin Welder or Mana Drain. These are the 3 cards that make the deck go , so taking them out is good.

[Null Rob]

If your Mage resolved, I think it would be a safe assumption that the CS player has no Force Of Wills in hand, making it a relatively easy call: Mana Drain.  By limiting them to 4 counterspells it becomes very easy to win by just playing another creature on turn 3 and stalling them with StP and your counterspells until you've beat down for the win.  This deck pretty much wants to do what fish used to do against slaver during the summer: apply enough early pressure so that the slaver player can't recover quickly enough.  Aggro control focuses largely on creating tempo, so the last thing you want to see is the slaver player buying all that tempo back with one well-timed, game-swinging Mana Drain.  You simply can't say the same thing about Thirst.  If they played island, go on turn one, then casting that Thirst will only set them back another turn.

[Rico Suave]

One thing to keep in mind is that REB is a good SB card to catch opposing Meddling Mages unprepared.

If you SB agaisnt a Slaver opponent, it may be wise, depending on how many blue cards you rely on, to name REB if they boarded in a substantial number.  This means your Mage will stick around longer, and you are still limiting the number of counters they have access to.

Given the opening scenario (Welder kill in hand) I would name TFK.  If they have a large artifact in hand, they'd rather TFK it away than Mana Drain into it.  

If you don't have the ability to play around Drain, I'd seriously consider naming it, but Mage is only a 10 turn clock so I'd want to reconsider how effectively I can put pressure on them.  Naming Drain allows you to play your threats without fear, but it also means they are better able to go on with theirs.  I'm not sure a 10 turn clock is fast enough to beat their game plan, so I'd name TFK.

[joe]

I'd say TFK.  Since it's the only way to pitch fat, naming TFK not only cuts their draw and clogs their hand, it pretty much shuts off welders as well.

Mana Drain definitely gets Mage #2 though.

[Methuselahn]

Thirst for Knowledge, is what I would name.  This is assuming you knew for sure that they were playing Control Slaver.  (Scouting/Game2/etc)

Sometimes naming Brainstorm is good too.