[Article/Discussion] Is Black The Answer to Our Prayers?

[AnFgangsta]

Hey all, Im looking for some feedback, positive or negative is appreciated as long as it has a point and is backed up. Here is the link:

http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showthread.php?t=7966

What are your thoughts on the topic? It seems more than feasible to me (I did write it, but by no means am I partial, testing has proved it).

[Aaron]

Every artifact deck running around right now desperately wants their artifacts in the graveyard, and therefore, burying them free of charge doesn't hinder your opponent as much as it helps them. Secondly, the list with 4 Akroma and 4 Spirit is quite terrible against Oath because of the Legend rule (plus the fact they have counterspells).

As a side note, you are going to be screwed by Chalice for 1/2.

Pure discard simply doesn't have the depth needed in the metagame today. As soon as a threat hits the table, you are basically done for.

There's a reason Mono-Black is dead.  

[AnFgangsta]

As for dumping artifacts..thats not all you are taking out..sure you will take some..but you are taking a lot more. Hmm you mentioned the legend rule..you will be getting Akroma or spirit out a lot faster than your opponent even if they play oath..so as I knew the legend rule buried the newest one. Plus, if you are facing oath you can always put other goodies in the deck instead thats not a big deal.  Chalice 1 or 2 would hurt..assuming you did not get it out of their hand. I mean I did not state these decks were untouchable, but their amount of disruption + their speeds and utility improves your chances to make them better than most other decks agains the Tier 1 group in my opinion.

The deck does not run simply discard..for example the Chains deck..I mean once you lock it down in 2 or 3 turns its over...they start discarding more than they are drawing..let alone their additional drawing from thirst of knowlege for example.  The point of these decks is to basically have the game locked/over by the time a threat hits the table..I mean to say the discard will take everything that is not needed out of their hand is a little far fetched.  I did not say this discard element could keep the deck along for a long time, but these are quick decks in that they get their goal acheived relatively quick..the discard just supplements it.

[Jacob Orlove]

so as I knew the legend rule buried the newest one.

420.5e: If two or more permanents with the same name have the supertype legendary, all are put into their owners' graveyards. This is called the "legend rule." If only one of those permanents is legendary, this rule doesn't apply.

[Denney The Third]

It would be a hassle but there is probably a card that lets you change creature type. But that would be yet another card needed to win and not worth it

[Jacob Orlove]

It would be a hassle but there is probably a card that lets you change creature type. But that would be yet another card needed to win and not worth it

Also wrong.
212.1d: An object's supertype is independent of its type and subtype. Changing an object's type or subtype won't change its supertype. Changing an object's supertype won't change its type or subtype. Example: An ability reads, "All lands are 1/1 creatures that are still lands." If any of the affected lands were legendary, they are still legendary.

[Triple_S]

Legend is a supertype, not a creature type now.  Unless you are running Mirror Gallery they both go.

[AnFgangsta]

Thanks Jacob...well I would think that fact helps the reanimator for the following reason: you can kill their creature (yes killing yours) but this buys you time..the fact you are usign the same creatures as them allows you a bigger chance of getting akroma in play when their oath engine gives them spirit of the night.

 I mean sure it partially comes down to which creature they get out and which you get. But realize too that 1. oath must resolve (this is where unmask is brilliant..ok force of will my duress , yes brainstorm can help but geting hit with a second discard spell will undoubtably take out a valuable card). Do take care of this problem you simply switch your creatures at sideboard.  

Fact remains that against every other deck Akroma and spirit are probably the best candidates to choose in this deck thus should be maindecked in great quantities so these are the creatures you pull consistantly.  To lower these numbers to simply accomodate Oath would be not very intelligent in my mind. Im currently testing creatures that work best against oath, maybe something that comes into play destroying an artifact. Avatar of hope seems like it would make an interesting match for Oath LOL Id like to see that go down..muahha my avatar is fatter that your akroma and spirit. Overwhelming Oath with creatures is a nice idea too..avatars obviouisly make the job easier then you just keep beating them with either tokens or whatever else you like.

[Disburden]

The only way I see a point being proved that mono-black control is playable in todays meta is to well........ play it in today's meta.

 I have to agree, there is a reason that you don't see black decks anymore. They simply can't outrun decks like Oath, Stax, Dragon, Slaver, TPS, Doomsday, 3CC, CA, etc.  I admit it would be totally sweet to see a  a report with someone taking home a prize with Reanimator, but DR4GON just does it better.

 I would advise that you 1). take one of these decks you mentioned in your article and take it to a tournament with a solid metagame or 2). proxy all the competitive decks out there and test your black decks against them over and over to see what the results are.

I love mono-black, it reminds me of the days of old when I started playing magic, but things just don't work the same anymore. I've seen this argument made on TheManaDrain for some time now that black can come back and I just don't see anyone proving the results.