Format Imbalance or Fun?

[Smmenen]

The DCI has explcitly rejected my criteria for restriction after apparently following it for some time.  

Metagame balance is nowhere near as important as fun. Right after Invasion was released, in one of the original Metagame Clock articles, the author noted that the Fires-dominated metagame was nowhere near as balanced as the Saga/Masques Standard had been. But that didn't matter, because people liked it more. And in that sense, no objective criteria for restriction amount to a hill of beans next to the subjective ones. It is not enough that a format be balanced, it must also be enjoyable, and I haven't enjoyed Type One in a very long time.

Assuming thats true.  Assuming that fun is more important than balance.  Let's make two assumptions:

1) Dark Ritual will eventually be restricted.  It won't happen soon and but within a year, it will likely join the list.  Now that 3sphere is gone, it will garner the most attention as the card that causes the most "unfun" in the format.  Not becuase it will dominate.  I don't even think Ritual decks will perform that well.  

2) When Ritual is restricted, Mana Drain decks will dominate the format.  Certainly they can be beaten.  Certainly people will play aggro and aggro control to beat them.  But they will be putting up 5-6+ players per top 8 consistently accross geographic boundaries.

Those are two very reasonable assumptions.  It is hard to argue that Ritual won't get restricted or that in its absence, Mana Drain won't dominate.  Mana Drain decks are almost always the best performining decks in the format.  Without Ritual or 3sphere, there isn't much to stop them.

Mana Drain decks are widely recognized as fun.  People love control mirrors.  They love playing their favorite Drain deck.  Hell I love playing them - that's why I played Oath in the last SCG event and why I mostly play Drain decks at tournament.  

My question is:  If Ritual is restricted and Drain dominates - will you care?  Is fun so much more important than metagame variety and balance that we will tolerate Mana Drain being all over this format?  And if so, what does that say about this format?

[Windfall]

Perhaps it was the people that lose to Trinisphere that complain about it being "unfun" as the article puts it.  They want their decks to dominate and be unstoppable and Trinisphere is the one card that just happens to wreck them.  Of course it's "unfun" for them.

Good players with good decks can win under Trinisphere all the time, and remember that Trinisphere only steals one game in the match if any, and every deck usually wins one match due to its brokenness.

[Machinus]

My question is: If Ritual is restricted and Drain dominates - will you care?

I am doubtful of the imminent danger of ritual. I already mentioned why I feel its restriction won't happen in the "DCI openness" thread.

However, I agree with [restriction of ritual] -> [dominance of drain].

But this doesn't have to be cataclysmic, since I think there is more than enough room to accomodate both cards simultaneously in the current format.

Why must ritual go?

[dandan]

I'll just repeat every word Machinus just said.

In addition, I don't think they have thrown out your restriction criteria, merely added a further reason for restriction, one they appear to view as a one-off with the current card pool.

However, we should acknowledge that they have said that even though Vintage is not currently imbalanced, they have made a change. Clearly this implies that an imbalanced metagame might be acceptable to the DCI as long as it is acceptable to players. This is a major change of policy.

I find it difficult to understand how the introduction of a card can have a non-metagame distorting effect (or a distortion effect within acceptable levels of Vintage) - this point appears to accepted by both the DCI and Smmenen - but the restriction of that card will lead to the inevitable restriction of Dark Ritual. Or is the inevitable restriction of Dark Ritual unrelated to the restriction of Trinisphere and purely dependant on the new 'unfun' category of restriction, one that today's article clearly points out is viewed by the DCI as a one-off in the current cardpool? Trinisphere was a concern to them before it was released and they have reacted to the concerns they already had plus recent player complaints. Dark Ritual has been around for 11 years and I can't remember it ever getting attacked as 'unfun' (indeed more casual players love it).

Reading between the lines, being able to cast Trinisphere on turn 1 was not seen as the problem, Trinisphere itself was seen as the problem. Therefore having 3 mana on turn 1 was not seen as a problem (unfun) -> Workshop and Dark Ritual are not seen as inherently broken (unfun) (in Vintage) and would only be restricted due to Smmenen's original criteria.

"Not becuase it will dominate. I don't even think Ritual decks will perform that well."

Who said that? Someone who thinks that Ritual will not be restricted based on Smmenen's criteria.

[Toad]

I didn't know I was supposed to go to a tournament to have fun. I'm not playing in tournament for "fun", that's what Casual games are for. I go to tournaments for winning. "No fun" is like the worst excuse ever for bannings.

I hope they are now going to restrict Winter Orb, Root Maze and Stasis, because these cards are no fun at all.

[Shock Wave]

I didn't know I was supposed to go to a tournament to have fun. I'm not playing in tournament for "fun", that's what Casual games are for. I go to tournaments for winning. "No fun" is like the worst excuse ever for bannings.

I hope they are now going to restrict Winter Orb, Root Maze and Stasis, because these cards are no fun at all.

Yeah, because Winter Orb, Root Maze, and Stasis are all very comparable to the issue at hand.  

These examples do not prevent your opponent from playing spells and essentially lock them out of the game if played on Turn 1.

If winning is your ultimate objective, well then you're in good shape. All you have to do is bring Control Slaver to your next tourney and Mana Drain into turn 2 or 3 win, right?  

[dandan]

Freyalise's Winds is not a fun card. Stasis is not a fun card. Nether Void is not a fun card. Having said that, if I see a turn 1 Stasis I feel like I am going to win, if I see a turn 1 Trinisphere (and I don't have a strip/Workshop in hand) I don't feel like I am going to win. Winning is more fun than losing.

I think most of understand that there are acceptable levels of 'unfunness' and WOrb is less unfun than 3Sphere.

[Toad]

I actually find Winter Orb to be FAR less fun than Trinisphere.

Trinisphere means that I can play whatever I want as soon as I have 3 lands on the board, something most decks are able to do now based on the strengh of basic lands and fetchlands. Winter Orb means that I will never be able to execute my game plan in a proper way until I get rid of It. I've won games after a first turn Trinisphere without dealing with the Trinisphere. I've never won games after a first turn Winter Orb without dealing with the Orb.

i have found myself letting Trinisphere resolve multiple times already when playing Drain Slaver or TPS, because I knew I would be able to ramp up to 3 manas easily with my heavy land draws. Sure, turn 2 Smokestack wrecks me, but that 3-cards Combo is hardly worse than the billions of 2-cards Combos we have in Type One.

I don't have problems with fun winning or fun losing. I'm not expecting to have fun in tournaments. I ended up 3rd/4th at the last 60-players tournament I went, winning most of my matches, and still got bored all day long. I had no fun winning. That tourney was extremely boring to me, and I even considered dropping before the Top8. I had more fun playing crappy ReapLace or BoW, and losing with them. Basing restrictions criteria on fun is a terrible idea IMHO. I hate Dark Ritual because losing before even having dropped a land is not fun. I hate Mana Drain because It prevents me from playing cool and fun expensive cards. I hate Bazaar of Baghdad because seeing the opponent drawing billions of cards in an uncounterable way is not fun. I hate Xantid Swarm because not being able to counter their stuff even if I have 6 Counterspells in hand is not fun. There are billions of non fun stuff in Magic. That's why I often play Casual. For fun.

[Wollblad]

I didn't know I was supposed to go to a tournament to have fun. I'm not playing in tournament for "fun", that's what Casual games are for. I go to tournaments for winning. "No fun" is like the worst excuse ever for bannings.

So you spend like $6000 on cards, an uncontrolled amount of money on trips and deny yourself countless hours of sleep for playtesting, for what? To win prizes to actually earn some money? To gain (useless) DCI-ranking? Or could it be,...., yes it can, to have fun! At least that is why I'm playing Magic. Winning is more fun than losing, but I rather lose a fun match than win a boring one.

I cannot see why Stax with only one Trinisphere would be that much worse against combo. Sphere of Resistance is still a slight hell, and with less Trinisphere, controlldecks can dedicate some more sideboard to battle combo. Perhpas it will come to the restriction of Dark Ritual, but only if they first restrict Workshop.

But for the sake of argument, let us assume that Dark Ritual gets restricted and Mana Drain does not. I wouldn't care much and I think noone here would. Mana Drain decks would be dominant, but it is not one single deck, so the meta game would still be diverse and even more so thanks to decks like Dragon and Rector which both are good against controll and are playable with only one Dark Ritual. And even though Mana Drain decks dominates, people in general do not care since they at least get to play some spells before losing. That gives them a (false) feeling of having a chance and pehaps they have since Mana Drain is a reactive spell, not proactive like Trinisphere or active like Dark Ritual. I can only agree with DCI in this case, fun is more important than balance. I want to play my cards, not just shuffle them.

EDIT: Words of wisdom: if you try to do several things at once other than writning a contribution, there will be a lot of new posts before yours.

[SliverKing]

Perhaps it was the people that lose to Trinisphere that complain about it being "unfun" as the article puts it.  They want their decks to dominate and be unstoppable and Trinisphere is the one card that just happens to wreck them.  Of course it's "unfun" for them.

I dont think thats entirely true.  Many people are mature enough to handle losing... I know very few people who handle losing because they never got to cast a spell.  3sphere (and to a lesser extent the super-combo decks) made one player go home without getting to play his deck.  Not that you cant build for it, not that I'm argueing restriction had to be done... however to say everyone who didnt like trinisphere was just a whiner and wanted to win all the time, I think is an unfair generalization.

Will Mana Drain create the same feeling? While it is possible, I doubt it.  People have equated UU "with my spell might not resolve" since alpha, and while it sucks, at least you got to play your deck. Until such a metagame exists I dont think any of us will know how "fun" it is.

As someone who USED 3sphere for the past 11 months, I am happier than anyone that its gone.  I dont expect my win percentage to increase, I dont expect Magic to enter some kind of Golden Age with no cheesy wins... but if even a few more games are decided because someone outplayed their opponent instead of winning a coinflip and getting theirmoxen into play before dropping a 3sphere... then count me one happy Sliver.

[Methuselahn]

I didn't know I was supposed to go to a tournament to have fun. I'm not playing in tournament for "fun", that's what Casual games are for. I go to tournaments for winning. "No fun" is like the worst excuse ever for bannings.

I hope they are now going to restrict Winter Orb, Root Maze and Stasis, because these cards are no fun at all.

I don't get it, if you're in it purely for winning and not fun then why are you even playing.  Surely if you are not in it for fun, you are in it for profit.  Succeeding even on the pro level isn't even close profit-wise as say, a 'real' full time job. Maybe you should quit magic and work at mcdonalds.

[Toad]

Re-read what I wrote. You missed my point.

[Dante]

In a field full of Moxen, Lotus, sol ring, lotus petal, chrome mox, mana vault, grim monolith, Ancient Tomb, Workshop, Ritual etc, I can't believe you brought up Winter Orb.  

winter orb says "deal with me or rely on 1 land per turn plus your artifact/other acceleration"

Trinisphere said "you must get to 3 mana before you can begin to deal with me or cast any spell"

See the difference.

On to the "fun" issue - to be fair, if you think about it, fun has always been the underlying factor in adjusting a format via restriction or banning, it was just labeled "balance" or something else.  I always took it as - if the format/card pool is such that you must play deck X or anti-deck X to be successful, then what is the fun in that kind of format?  Or when combo decks approached too high of a turn 1 win % (even through FoW), the axe usually fell.

[Methuselahn]

I don't think I missed your point.  Why do you spend time on a hobby you don't enjoy, or even plan on enjoying, this being tournament magic?  The only logical conclusion I can see is either profit or fame.

Also, using individual cards as examples as not being fun is really silly since 'fun' is relative. YVintage is super-swingy, it's the format where broken things are suppossed to happen, either you accept it and love it or you don't play.  

I have to say, it's odd seeing a prominent developer of stax complain about disruption.  At least I think you are complaining, it's hard to tell sometimes amonst that interwoven mess of seriousness and sarcasm.

[Toad]

I'm not complaining. I just think Trinisphere has been restricted based on wrong reasons. Reasons that have nothing to do with tournament play, competitiveness and format dominance. According to the column, Trinisphere has been restricted because It was not fun playing against It. I was just pointing the fact that tournament doesn't have to be "fun". Casual magic is meant for that. When I go to a T1 tournament with a 1000$ card as first prize, believe me, I'm not going there to have fun with my opponent. When MeanDeck designs a deck, the fundamental question we ask ourself is "Is this deck good enough to win the tournament?". Not "Will our opponents have fun facing us?". Sure, Trinisphere sucks on its own and is not fun playing against. This is why my casual group has banned stuff like Trinisphere, Winter Orb, land destruction and stuff in our casual games. But there we are talking about tournament and competition. Not fun.

The comments about Winter Orb and Stasis above are obviously sarcasm. But if we consider them in a vacuum without taking their power level in Type One, are they fun to face? Do you have fun facing Winter Orb and Stasis? Not much. That's the point. If cards are restricted for being "not fun", why are some not restricted despite being obviously "not fun" to face?

Sidenote : I've not played with my Mishra's Workshops for more than 6 Monthes now. I've not been working on Stax or any kind of Workshop Aggro.  All my last decks have been Mana Drain based.

[Dante]

Right - it's our job as tournament players to build the best deck possible to win....but it's the DCI's job to monitor what it takes to win and what effect that has on the format.  

In the end, Magic is about people.  People play tournament Type 1 because they enjoy both the game and playing it competitively.  I believe the DCI feels that everyone should at least get 1 turn where they can play spells/disruption, whatever, which is why 3sphere went and why they neuter combo decks that are too well tuned and the 1st turn win % gets too high.  Decks which tend to make the opponent irrelevant (3sphere, fast combo) by not allowing them to cast spells or end the game turn 1 have had a history of being dealt with by the DCI.

[CHA1N5]

To be clear:  Trinisphere was restricted because it was ENOUGH un-fun to warrant people complaining to R&D about it in a high enough quantity to get their attention.

I don't know how much weight they gave to the issue as it was discussed here on TMD, but they were responding to public opinion notheless.

[Smmenen]

Mana Drain decks are widely recognized as fun.  People love control mirrors.  They love playing their favorite Drain deck.  Hell I love playing them - that's why I played Oath in the last SCG event and why I mostly play Drain decks at tournament.  

My question is:  If Ritual is restricted and Drain dominates - will you care?  Is fun so much more important than metagame variety and balance that we will tolerate Mana Drain being all over this format?  And if so, what does that say about this format?

Only one person in this thread thus far has actually answered the question that I crafted this thread to discuss.  Please.  What are your thoughts?

[Methuselahn]

Yes, sorry.  On topic:

Having just Ritual and/or Mana Drain around is perfectly acceptable. I don't care. It is probably the way to go to attract more players too.  I was even fine with Trinisphere, although I can see how others wouldn't.

If I'm playing Magic, I'm having fun.  I know I could make decent money at work instead, guaranteed, but I'll risk it and go for that 1/40 shot at a 300+ dollar piece of cardboard.

Wouldn't a dominance of Mana Drain automatically mean more interaction than any other alternative?  I'll sign up for that.

[dicemanx]

"Fun" is a component of EVERY SINGLE restriction criterion.

Why are we treating it as a seperate criterion?

Trini was restricted because it was a matter of DEGREE, as the Canadians had argued 4-5 months ago, and as Kevin is wisely reiterating now. The relevant criteria were:

1) unrecoverable early game swing
2) massive distortion

Aaron Forsythe did not verbalize this because quite frankly the b/r criteria are so intuitively obvious to begin with. All we had was a couple of lawyers/lawyers in training come on these forums and precisely and elegantly define them for us, but most people don't realize that the DCI had been using those criteria for years. Unfortunately for Aaron, and quite predictably I might add, people have latched on to the word "fun" and now we are having these inane arguments as a result.


To answer Steve's question about the supposed Mana Drain domination after the supposed axing of Ritual down the line, here's my simple answer. If it breaks some acceptable threshhold in terms of the restriction criteria he so eloquently defined, then we will have to do something about it.

Breaking a threshhold = not fun = I would not be fine with Mana Drain domination

Establishing what that threshhold is = damn near impossible/not cost effective to determine. But I do know the threshhold is "high". As Dante wrote in the sister thread in the open forum, we will simply just "know" when the threshhold is surpassed. If this is unacceptable, tough shit (pardon my French).

[Zherbus]

My question is: If Ritual is restricted and Drain dominates - will you care? Is fun so much more important than metagame variety and balance that we will tolerate Mana Drain being all over this format? And if so, what does that say about this format?

I'm going to bite. I wanted to stay away from these conversations, but hell...

No, I will not care and here's why:

Let's assume we're only left with one dominant point of the triangular metagame of Mana Drain, Trinisphere, and Dark Ritual.

With Dark Ritual, the goal is to have a game state of one singular turn. In another format where we don't have additional accelerants on par with Moxen, Lotus, LED, Sol Ring, etc, all it manages is to make more early first turn plays. However in this format, it's strictly there to end the game before your opponent gets to play the game with you.

With Trinisphere, the goal is to give yourself X turns where your opponent cannot play any cards. If they are to break from this, they are often in a unwinnable state.

With Mana Drain, the goal is to catch your opponent playing some mid-high cost spell so that you not only stop what he plays, but you gain the advantage of having acceleration the following main phase.

Those first two I consider in an entirely different class than Mana Drain. Firstly, I think too many make the mistake of putting them all on par with each other because you can classify the current gauntlet by: Bazaar, Trinisphere, Mana Drain, and Dark Ritual.

Now that Trinisphere is gone, you have to reclassify it as: Bazaar, Workshop, Mana Drain, and Dark Ritual.

Defining this class:

With Bazaar, your opponent needs to play to that uncounterable, reusable card draw. If you're not packing graveyard hate and/or Wastelands, you're going to get run over by that advantage in no time.

With Workshop, you have to be able to deal with the acceleration the opponent is generating. Do you have a Plow for that turn one Juggernaut? Do you have a Stifle for that Turn one Memory Jar that he'll pop next turn? Do you have basic lands to stun that Crucible-Wasteland?Again, like Bazaar, not being able to deal with the strength of this card is more of your responsibility and can be adjusted to.

Finally, with Mana Drain, you need to be able to work around walking face-first into a Mana Drain to deny your opponent that advantage. Do you rely on Duress to take out the Mana Drain? Do you play smaller threats to negate the advantage?  Or do you deny the UU required to make this card work at all?

Bazaar, Workshop, and Mana Drain all share more than Mana Drain ever did with Trinisphere and Dark Ritual. Why? Because Trinisphere and Dark Ritual have the common goal of not letting you play. Bazaar, Mana Drain, and Workshop merely provide a strength that people need to work around (and at every point in history have been able to do).

If one of the three (or all) becomes dominant, it's entirely workable. That's why I believe that your assessment that Mana Drain is on the same par as Dark Ritual and Trinisphere is wrong.

[Windfall]

I agree with your thoughts on the differences between those big cards, but I still have to say that I will not be happy with the format being dominated by Mana Drains.

If you think about it, the format has always been dominated by Mana Drains to some extent.  It has always been Mana Drains decks and decks that can compete with Mana Drain.  Unfortunately for the rest of the cards in Type 1, the decks that can compete with Mana Drain are so powerful and fast (they have to be to win before UU stops them) that other decks have also been unable to surface and compete.  The fact that the Dragon combo, the Tendrils combo, quick Tangle Wires, or the dreaded Mana Drain will completely wreck their game plan means that many decks just won't work.

But I am okay with there being a couple of Mana Drain decks, a couple of Ritual decks, a couple of Workshop decks (with Trinisphere), and a couple of Bazaar decks.  I didn't see any problem with the diversity of the format - in fact, I thought it was the most fun Type 1 has been in a long time.

In the future, if Mana Drain comes to be the dominant deck, which is most certainly should end up doing, it will still be fun because we dedicated players will always find the game fun.  However, I fear that the diversity we had a month ago will disappear and it won't be as interesting as it is today.

[BigMac]

Vintage with dark ritual and manadrain has been around for some time. If dark ritual is restricted and draindecks become dominant people will find other ways to beat those draindecks. So to me it still will stay fun as i will be one of those players actually looking for decks to beat the deck to beat. To me the fun is in the innovation of the game. So whatever changes there may come in the future, the game holds me captive.

About trini i can be short. I think the un-fun part that got it restricted was that to many people were venting to actually stop playing because of the un-fun trini. Fact is that in deckbuilding people always started with a couple of criterea. The first mostly is: can i win against a turn 1 trini. Although this is accepted in the tourny community and i actually support Toads point a view for the most part that i go play a tourny foremost to win, i can imagine people actually going for the fun of it as well as the competition. The DCi has a job to keep it as much fun to as much people as possible, in doing so keeping as many players active as possible. I can imagine that a card, when it costs you players, will be cut out.

For that same reason i think ritual and drain wont be restricted as people feel them to be fun to play with. And the cards werent overbearing before trini so the reason for restriction for being to good, or not fun enough, i think will never be an issue.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I for one will most certainly care if every deck runs drain/ritual, or if these cards just dominate.  Ritual has been around forever, but it is a threat now, because the biggest mistake in magic mechanics has been let out of the bag: storm.  ritual is a great means to create fast mana and ramp storm count.  Restricting tendrils won't do a damn thing, since people will run one main and one in the board with a burning wish.  I think drain is a card that is way out of flavor (giving blue speed), is very unfun (letting someone counter your attack and then casting something ridiculously expensive/broken as a result), and should be restricted.  Trini stopped the brokenness of drain or ritual/storm, but now it will dominate every tourney and be in every deck.  Sphere of resistance is a terrible replacement for trini, btw, for those that argue that point.  I care about an aggroless environment where everyone plays combo/control or loses.  That's not healthy for the format in my opinion.  If the DCI needs to just make Vintage a game of one-ofs by restricting things left and right, then you can catch me at the poker table...and if they feel a field of combo/control with no aggro is "fun"...you can catch me at the poker table.  P.S. i don't even play poker.

[Matt]

Restricting tendrils won't do a damn thing, since people will run one main and one in the board with a burning wish.

You can't actually do this. 'Restricted' means one copy between all 75 cards of your deck.

[Milton]

Only one person in this thread thus far has actually answered the question that I crafted this thread to discuss. Please. What are your thoughts?

I think your paradigm is flawed.

There are no good decks that rely on Dark Ritual that are easy to play.  The frusteration (and un-funness) of Trinisphere was that any idiot could play a turn 1 sphere, lock down an opponent, make numerous other mistakes and still win a game, not based on skill but based on that one card.  

Trinisphere created an environment (or a perception) that rando scrubs were winning games they shouldn't.  How does Dark Ritual do the same?  You ever see combo decks piloted by unskilled players?  I have, and they aren't very threatening.  That's why Dragon, despite a couple of years of development and a very nifty combo, doesn't have dominance.  It's not that easy to play.  Tendrils decks are hard to play.  Rector decks, while possibly the easiest combo of the bunch, are still hard to play.

The restriction of Trinisphere was simmilar to the restriction of Fact or Fiction.  Rando scrubs were putting together BBS and defeating skilled players.  Remember?  Was Fact really broken in BBS?  We should have been able to innovate around it with Gro, but we were too stuborn.  Some demanded restriction, based on the un-fun factor, got restriction and were happy.

[Dante]

On steve's original topic, I will certainly care if all the top decks are "the same".  For example, think back to Keeper days pre-innovation (i.e. 4 Fact or Fiction tubbies/mono-blue/TnT) when you had Keeper decks and Keeper hate decks (r/g metagame zoo, suicide, etc).  That was...fun at the time, but knowing the diversity in decks we've had in the past couple of years, going back would not be an option if I was to continue play (just like I'd rather be born blind and not know what I'm missing than to lose my sight now).

So regardless of Dark Ritual staying or going, if all the top decks end up being "the same" (i.e. we end up arguing over 3 slots in our 4 FoW/4 Drain decks), then it will be time to do something (and rather than axing Mana Drain it may be un-restrict Trinisphere).

But if we can have diversity in deck styles and play in the top decks, I'm not sure if I will care if they are all mana-drain based decks (although then something will need to be done about the card pool and # of available Drains).

[PucktheCat]

"Fun" is a component of EVERY SINGLE restriction criterion.

This is the most insightful statement in this thread.

Steve, I am not sure what you are setting up in opposition to "fun" as a restriction criteria.  What should Wizards be making its decisions based on if not the success of its product?

Even your "objective" criteria are simply a single perspective on what needs to be done to make T1 a good game.  The fact that the DCI feels entitled to make judgments about what makes a good game hardly suprising - they are the ones whose salaries are paid by people who enjoy their games.

Leo

[Smmenen]

No doubt fun the ultimate end.  But different people have different ideas about what fun is.  The criteria I chose were chosen becuase they are objective.  

The point of this thread is to illustrate a single idea:

At some point the goal of fun must come into direct conflict with the goal of format balance.  That tension exists right now - the restriction of trinisphere will inevitably lead to less variety at the top level (not overall though).  But at some point, the two notions will collide and one will have to take precedence.

[Dante]

No doubt fun the ultimate end.  But different people have different ideas about what fun is.  The criteria I chose were chosen becuase they are objective.  

The point of this thread is to illustrate a single idea:

At some point the goal of fun must come into direct conflict with the goal of format balance.  That tension exists right now - the restriction of trinisphere will inevitably lead to less variety at the top level (not overall though).  But at some point, the two notions will collide and one will have to take precedence.

True, but I think the level of variety will be a factor and I think that it will be easy to identify what is "not fun" moreso than laying out criteria for "fun".

Here's another interesting question - assume for the minute that without trinisphere, dark ritual-based combo becomes too dominant (not that I agree with that yet, but just assume it for now) and dark ritual gets the axe.  At that point, let's assume mana drain decks dominate and that they are all similar enough OR a best deck emerges and distorts the meta the way GAT did to a point where the DCI needs to take action.  If after 6 months of that dominance, no new decks emerge, should the DCI:

1. restrict Mana Drain and turn Vintage into Legacy with Power
2. un-restrict Dark Ritual and Trinisphere.

obviously new sets can have an impact and there are 2 back-back assumptions there, but neither one is that far-fetched.