[Discussion] Leviat.dec

[IHESM]

There where like, only 30 people there, that was kinda a shame, but hey, every one played power

And yet..., 61-Cards-Mono Green Landdestruction not playing a Lotus even though it was 10-pr, won the tournament...how lucky

However, a friend of mine has begun testing Mana Crypt in his build by replacing the 4th Tundra. It usually accelerates him a lot as it casts pretty much every spell in the deck. I know that Control mirror tend to last quite long and Aggro isn't the easiest matchup, but in the cases where Crypt isn't good, you can just throw-it away to Bazaar. The inclusion of Crypt would also mean the impossibility to add a 2nd Boseiju because the blue sources would be a little too low.

I played Mana Crypt myself in Castricum, but only because I didn't have access to a Lotus. But, it was imo really good. In a control mirror, it might not be your best mana source because of the random damage you can get, but good acceleration boosting out early Intuitions and Thirst is vital too. That's 1 reason I don't like Boseiju, it slows you down instead of acceleration, it costs you life every time you use it, and it screws up your blue mana base even more. Sure, the ability is OK, but imo not good enough (it's like a "win more" card, improving matchups that are already good ).

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Plains
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Library of Alexandria
(25)

This was my mana base in Castricum, the 3 Tundra's and 1 Mana Crypt mainly because I didn't have access to them. This is what I'm playing atm;

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Plains
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
(26)(yeah..1 more)

[49 Cents]

There where like, only 30 people there, that was kinda a shame, but hey, every one played power

And yet..., 61-Cards-Mono Green Landdestruction not playing a Lotus even though it was 10-pr, won the tournament...how lucky

Yeah.. And I still don't get how he did that.. :S

For those who are interested, here's the T8:

http://www.nedermagic.nl/toernooiverslag_item.asp?nws_id=515

Boseiju might be a 'win more' card, but is does allow you to save your counters for other things your opponent might cast that scare you. And because of that, I think it's worth running.
I agree on crypt. Casting a turn 1 Intuition/Thirst/Random is worth losing some random life.

Greetz,

Hugo

[Pyromaniac]

Boseiju might be a 'win more' card, but is does allow you to save your counters for other things your opponent might cast that scare you. And because of that, I think it's worth running.
I agree on crypt. Casting a turn 1 Intuition/Thirst/Random is worth losing some random life.

Do you have any idea yet what card you'd cut for the Mana Crypt? In my experience with the deck, getting mana has sometimes been a problem, let alone playing lands that come into play tapped in this format. I've never had a problem with Replenish not resolving, because most of the time, Bazaars draw so many extra cards that it plain doesn't matter anymore.

[leviat]

Wow... I have a deck named after me... how cool.

I love the way the deck has evolved, [card]Boseiju, Who Shelters All[/card] is exactly what a deck like this needed. It allows you to draw that late game Replenish in the face of a hand-full of counters and smirk as your opponent just scoops. Yawg Bargain also seems like a great addition, not sure why I didn't play that over Future Sight.

When I first started playing the deck is was my answer to 'Tog. Everyone in Binghamton was tapping BigTeeth and with Form out, there was nothing they could do (except hope for enough mana to take it out with Deed).

I'm out of touch in magic so I'll keep quiet, but I feel that I must at least somewhat defend my choice of Careful Study. Although it causes card disadvantage, it was exactly what I needed on turn one to either (a) Dig for Bazaar, or (b) Discard an early D.A. I reasoned it as follows: A first turn Bazaar is great, but then my Mana Drain take an extra turn to come online, so with Study, I can drop an Island and still get my Bazaar effect on turn one.

Those that have played alot with this deck will realize that it has a very horrible and painful first turn. Careful Study was the only card I could comeup with to fix it's "Turn 1" without splashing black for Duress. But anyways, I said I would keep quiet....

PS - Mana Crypt is absolutely essential, plus, once Form/Confinement hit play, there's no worries about dieing from it.

[49 Cents]

Wow... I have a deck named after me... how cool.

Whahaha, well, shit happens right?

I love the way the deck has evolved, [card]Boseiju, Who Shelters All[/card] is exactly what a deck like this needed. It allows you to draw that late game Replenish in the face of a hand-full of counters and smirk as your opponent just scoops.

That is exactly what I mean, You just don't need to wait 20 turns first, while you draw alot of cards with bazaar to get those Counters you need, you can just go off in your opponents face.

When I first started playing the deck is was my answer to 'Tog. Everyone in Binghamton was tapping BigTeeth and with Form out, there was nothing they could do (except hope for enough mana to take it out with Deed).

And Tog doesnt even play Deed anymore

Although it causes card disadvantage, it was exactly what I needed on turn one to either (a) Dig for Bazaar, or (b) Discard an early D.A. I reasoned it as follows: A first turn Bazaar is great, but then my Mana Drain take an extra turn to come online, so with Study, I can drop an Island and still get my Bazaar effect on turn one.
Those that have played alot with this deck will realize that it has a very horrible and painful first turn. Careful Study was the only card I could comeup with to fix it's "Turn 1" without splashing black for Duress

Well, I feel like a First turn Bazaar isnt always essential. I mean, I would set up a mana drain into Intuition for Squee's/DA's before I play a bazaar, because my opponent could play Wastelands or has a quick beater online which you want to drain. And if you lay a Mox and a land, you will still have a turn 2 Intuition/Thirst. What I have noticed is that in general, I use Thirst as Bait (they will be seduced to counter it almost all the time), and then jam trough an Intuition next turn.
Another thing what I have noticed, is that the [Card]Decree of Silence[/Card] really isn't bad. After alot of testing, I've put it back Maindeck (replacing Seal). The reason that, is that during the tourney when I had my combo out (maybe minus a Confinement, because there is no squee), I wished I had a Decree for the anwsers that My opponent might cast.

An Example: I was playing against C. Assasin in the T8. He got a quick intuition out, which I couldn't counter, and he searched 3 Rays of revelation's. He could now play FIVE of them. I had to search for FIVE counters before I could cast my Replenish (I had 1 in hand, 1 in library and 2 in my GY). This took me around 5 turns. His hand was almost empty because of bazaar. I wished so hard I've putted a Decree in the deck, because it is just SO hard.

Greetz,

Hugo

[IHESM]

That is exactly what I mean, You just don't need to wait 20 turns first, while you draw alot of cards with bazaar to get those Counters you need, you can just go off in your opponents face.

It's still a lot easier to draw some counters, than to randomly draw a  1-maindeck-CIPT-land you can't tutor for....

Sure, it can be good in random late game situations..., but unnecessarily making your mana base worse for something that's not going to be usefull many times...imo not worth it.

An Example: I was playing against C. Assasin in the T8. He got a quick intuition out, which I couldn't counter, and he searched 3 Rays of revelation's. He could now play FIVE of them. I had to search for FIVE counters before I could cast my Replenish (I had 1 in hand, 1 in library and 2 in my GY). This took me around 5 turns. His hand was almost empty because of bazaar. I wished so hard I've putted a Decree in the deck, because it is just SO hard.

Playing Intuition for 3 Ray..., 1 in hand, 2 in grave...and he can play them 5 times..., 2+1+1 = 5  right?

But anyway, that's like saying (random example); Oh, if I would've played a Rebuild maindeck, I could've won that one game vs. Random-Artifact.dec easier, let's put it maindeck!

Adapting your decklist because some random situation happened, that's not likely to happen again...

(and btw, you could've waited until you would've drawn a 2nd Replenish...big deal )

[Pyromaniac]

I'm out of touch in magic so I'll keep quiet, but I feel that I must at least somewhat defend my choice of Careful Study. Although it causes card disadvantage, it was exactly what I needed on turn one to either (a) Dig for Bazaar, or (b) Discard an early D.A. I reasoned it as follows: A first turn Bazaar is great, but then my Mana Drain take an extra turn to come online, so with Study, I can drop an Island and still get my Bazaar effect on turn one.

Those that have played alot with this deck will realize that it has a very horrible and painful first turn. Careful Study was the only card I could comeup with to fix it's "Turn 1" without splashing black for Duress. But anyways, I said I would keep quiet....

PS - Mana Crypt is absolutely essential, plus, once Form/Confinement hit play, there's no worries about dieing from it.

The part about the horrible first turn I think is only partially true: vs control decks you can (in general) rely on the fact that they're not going to be too fast, and thus, you van play a Bazaar relatively quickly, like turn 1/2. This I think is possible, because they will generally spend a turn wasting it, and so your development and theirs was stunted equally. Versus fast decks I think it really depends on your opening 7 what you do: play a Bazaar or a blue land.

The Boseji situation I can't really comment on. The problem is that the deck doesn't run black for Demonic/Vamp or green for (YUCK) Living Wish. Wish sounds like a really crappy card, and it probably is, but it would at least enable you to play a Bazaar, a Boseji and 1-2 other lands in your sideboard. The Wish isn't very likely to be countered, but I wouldn't include it yet, I'm just mentioning this because it just randomly popped into my head.

The real problem with Boseji is 2-fold I think:
1. It comes into play tapped, which imho is REALLY bad in this deck, because you ideally want to maximize the use of your mana in this deck, either with mainphase spells or eot effects.
2. It doesn't produce blue or white mana. The life loss isn't an issue, because against aggro decks you just discard it to a Bazaar. It's only usefull versus control decks, where you already have an advantage of an uncounterable card draw engine.

[IHESM]

The Boseji situation I can't really comment on. The problem is that the deck doesn't run black for Demonic/Vamp or green for (YUCK) Living Wish. Wish sounds like a really crappy card, and it probably is, but it would at least enable you to play a Bazaar, a Boseji and 1-2 other lands in your sideboard. The Wish isn't very likely to be countered, but I wouldn't include it yet, I'm just mentioning this because it just randomly popped into my head.

And because playing a third color is probably not the best option, with no tutor effects (well yeah, intuition, but you're not going to play 3 Boseiju's ), I think it's too random. (and also the CIPT part you mentioned is bad obv )

[TheAlpha]

That is exactly what I mean, You just don't need to wait 20 turns first, while you draw alot of cards with bazaar to get those Counters you need, you can just go off in your opponents face.

// Manasources (22)
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

In addition to Pyromaniac and IHESM, I really don't like the Boseiju. IMO you already tell us why it's a bad card. Waiting for a Boseiju takes even longer than waiting for a hand with an acceptable amount of counters (and I didn't even include te CIPT).

Maybe you should look at your plays concerning resolving Replenish, Pyromaniac tell us that he never has problems resolving Replenish and in the games I played online against IHESM, I was never really able to stop him from resolving a Replenish when he got a Bazaar online.

Good luck with the deck!

[49 Cents]

IMHO, I really don't think it's my plays.. It's just, I want to intuition EOT, but If I see that he can win the next turn, I'll Intuition on my own turn. That costs 3 mana, If I want to play replenish and hold mana for drain it'll cost another 6 mana..

On the Decree: Just now I was playing alot of games against a friend with Hulk, and he just went Cunning Wish - Some random shit to kill my enchantments. With Decree, he really can't do that. He first has to play 3 spells, and then have mana left for the wish AND maybe a counter. Lategame we ussually were both around the 10, so it will take only 1 turn to kill him with 2x FotD. Guess this is kinda good..

I'll play the deck in Castricum next week if I can borrow some Bazaars..

I'll test all of it. I still think it's better to topdeck a Boseiju mid/lategame then an Island or something.

Greetz,

Hugo

Ps, Thx Lex

[IHESM]

I'll test all of it. I still think it's better to topdeck a Boseiju mid/lategame then an Island or something.

I'd also rather "topdeck"...like...whatever.., instead of an Island lategame, but that's no reason to play it, is it?

IMHO, I really don't think it's my plays.. It's just, I want to intuition EOT, but If I see that he can win the next turn, I'll Intuition on my own turn. That costs 3 mana, If I want to play replenish and hold mana for drain it'll cost another 6 mana..

(seriously...wtf )

Anyway, as said before, you really think 1 random Boseiju will be the solution to every random game situation in which you can't resolve a replenish right away?

I agree with what TheAlpha said..., if you have so many problems resolving 1 random Replenish, you might be doing some things "wrong".

On the Decree: Just now I was playing alot of games against a friend with Hulk, and he just went Cunning Wish - Some random shit to kill my enchantments. With Decree, he really can't do that. He first has to play 3 spells, and then have mana left for the wish AND maybe a counter. Lategame we ussually were both around the 10, so it will take only 1 turn to kill him with 2x FotD. Guess this is kinda good..

This is basically the same as your last post, finding arguments in random games why a card could be viable, but is still only a "win easier"-card in a situation you're already winning.

[TheAlpha]

IMHO, I really don't think it's my plays.. It's just, I want to intuition EOT, but If I see that he can win the next turn, I'll Intuition on my own turn. That costs 3 mana, If I want to play replenish and hold mana for drain it'll cost another 6 mana..

I get the point but it still doesn't make the Boseiju a good card. Basicly what you said here is: I don't want to lose next turn, so I play an intuition + replenish in my own turn and win because I have a Boseiju. Take a look at your decklist, it only has 1 Boseiju so this is not likely to happen. Besides, if you drew it off an active Bazaar you're probably one the winning route anyway.

What's the deal with the intuition in your own turn, I just don't understand. Correct me if I'm wrong but imo the situation lategame is like this:
-You have quite a lot of mana
-You'd rather cast an Intuition than a TFK

So what you'll do in your opponents turn is either Drain something and/or Intuition in his turn. Why are you concerned with playing an Intuition with non-drain mana in your own turn  

I'll test all of it. I still think it's better to topdeck a Boseiju mid/lategame then an Island or something.

That's as stupid as: I'd rather top an Ancestral instead of a random mox late game.

And finally: isn't Tog a good matchup for Leviat?

[Pyromaniac]

IMHO, I really don't think it's my plays.. It's just, I want to intuition EOT, but If I see that he can win the next turn, I'll Intuition on my own turn. That costs 3 mana, If I want to play replenish and hold mana for drain it'll cost another 6 mana..

Maybe I'm not reading well, or something, but I have NO idea what you're saying here. If you see your opponent can win next turn, I'd say you'd want to keep mana open so you can counter, instead of playing something in your own turn. Can you please elaborate on this?

TheAlpha: Tog is a pretty good matchup, since they can't deal with your card draw engine, which easily races theirs

[Freelancer]

I think what 49 cents is trying to say is that boseiju gives you inevatibility, meaning that if you have a boseiju in your library you just need to do three things;
1) stop the opponent from winning
2) do your normal thing (dump/draw)
3) keep a replenish back (unless it wins ofcourse)

This means you don't have to worry about replenishes resolving or not, you just need to make sure you find boseiju, it works in a similar manner as library; with a library out your opponent (if playing control) HAS to answer it or he dies to CA...

I think its more off a sideboard card (as a 2-off) to make control mirrors/matchups so much easier...

[Pyromaniac]

I think what 49 cents is trying to say is that boseiju gives you inevatibility, meaning that if you have a boseiju in your library you just need to do three things;
1) stop the opponent from winning
2) do your normal thing (dump/draw)
3) keep a replenish back (unless it wins ofcourse)

This means you don't have to worry about replenishes resolving or not, you just need to make sure you find boseiju, it works in a similar manner as library; with a library out your opponent (if playing control) HAS to answer it or he dies to CA...

I think its more off a sideboard card (as a 2-off) to make control mirrors/matchups so much easier...

This is true. But resolving a Replenish generally isn't THAT hard, because your Bazaars already generate massive card advantage. This also means that you should be drawing plenty of counters, so stopping the opponent from winning is a good possibility, as well as protecting the spells you want to resolve, like Replenish.

Boseji, while being fun, just isn't worth it maindeck in this deck. Also, the analogy with LoA is kinda farfetched, since you're effectively(well, most of the time) playing 5 LoA's already.

I have no idea if this card is good enough to warrant space in the sideboard. I've never had any real problems beating counter based decks before, so Boseji kinda sounds like a win more card to me: cute, but non-essential. I think there are better cards to side in vs those matchups.

If I can find some time, I'll try and find out with some testing if this card is worth it, but I doubt it atm.

[rvs]

I think what 49 cents is trying to say is that boseiju gives you inevatibility, meaning that if you have a boseiju in your library you just need to do three things;
1) stop the opponent from winning
2) do your normal thing (dump/draw)
3) keep a replenish back (unless it wins ofcourse)

This means you don't have to worry about replenishes resolving or not, you just need to make sure you find boseiju, it works in a similar manner as library; with a library out your opponent (if playing control) HAS to answer it or he dies to CA...

I think its more off a sideboard card (as a 2-off) to make control mirrors/matchups so much easier...

Uh? Inevatibility with a land that is a 1-of in a deck without any real tutoring? Might I also add it's a bad land since it CIPT? This does not make sense at all.
Against control you have a lot of better sideboard options anyway (and only control that has wastelands is a tad difficult, all other control mirrors are relatively easy to solve, also without boseiju).

To add some merit to what I, and my teammates IHESM and Pyro are saying, is that we have been playing leviatpile since GenCon last august, and have quite a good grasp of the matchups.

[Mixing Mike]

The real problem with Boseji is 2-fold I think:
1. It comes into play tapped, which IMHO is REALLY bad in this deck, because you ideally want to maximize the use of your mana in this deck, either with mainphase spells or EOT effects.
2. It doesn't produce blue or white mana. The life loss isn't an issue, because against aggro decks you just discard it to a Bazaar. It's only usefull versus control decks, where you already have an advantage of an uncounterable card draw engine.

This is something I can't agree with more.  It's actually the reason why I don't play Boseji.  In any Control mirror, I just outplay them, and running an uncounterable draw engine just makes it too easy sometimes.

I piloted a decklist that I basically made off the lists on the first two pages to a Top 4 finish, and then added black the following weekend.  I took that build to a Top 8 finish.  I added black for Demonic Tutor, 3 Duress and 1 Yawgmoth's Will.  I was very dissapointed in the effect those cards had all day.  I can't say they really helped me at all once all day long.  I added black trying to get the same effect through Duress as Boseiju gives you, only helping the matchup against combo at the same time.  This deck has a lot of tempo problems running Bazaar and Mana Drains, and adding a land that CIP-tapped AND doesn't produce blue mana is hard for me to image playing at all.

Earlier in the thread, people were saying that they were having trouble with Meddeling Mage.  If they actually get one to resolve one game 1, I'll just win through card advantage and hardcast Humility or Confinement.  You CAN win through a Med Mage without casting a Replenish.  I know it's not the plan of choice, but I've done it.

In addition to Mana Crypt, has anyone tried out Lotus Petal, or am I the only one?  It has yet to do me wrong.  I'm a little weary of Mana Crypt, but I'll try it out.  Also, with all of these Artifacts, why not run an Academy?

[Thug]

What is the reason people dont play with Mana Crypt to begin with?
I would probably play it over an off-colour mox in this deck if I had to choose one.

But finding room for both shouldn't be all that hard, just  don't hesistate to side out some artifact mana when you want to sideboard in things. (Pyro told me this once, and when playing the deck myself I did it quite a few times)

Mana Crypt means a first turn Thirst/Intuition, instead of a second or even third turn. If in a certain matchup you don't like crypt you have both Bazaar and Thirst to pitch it too, not to mention you can keep it back till you really need the mana to resolve that Replenish.

Koen

[49 Cents]

Hey,

Ok, cutted. Now I'm playing that Crypt.

I had a Tourney today (Castricum), and I've brought the deck to a 6th finish (4-1-1), which seems good in my eyes

Greetz,

Hugo

[IHESM]

In addition to Mana Crypt, has anyone tried out Lotus Petal, or am I the only one? It has yet to do me wrong. I'm a little weary of Mana Crypt, but I'll try it out. Also, with all of these Artifacts, why not run an Academy?

I don’t think Lotus Petal is good enough, because you don’t have a lot of extra space in your Mana Base, and other sources are better IMO. Same with Academy, you don’t run enough artifacts for it, and it’s wastable anyway (so cutting an Island or something doesn’t seem to be a good solution)

Ok, cutted. Now I'm playing that Crypt.

Well, according to your decklist (i’ve got it right here, because I had to put them online ), your mana base yesterday was;


4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Plains
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
4 Bazaar of Baghdad


Well, you’ve cut the Boseiju, so I guess it’s replaced by the 5th Mox? Anyway, I’ve tested 26 “sources” myself (as said in a reply above), and I think it’s a bit too much. What’s your opinion on that?

I agree with what Thug said, I’d rather play a Mana Crypt over an off-colour Mox if I had to. Because adding 25th/26th sources to the deck is too much IMO (25th is possible, but 26 is a lot, even though Bazaar is obviously  not a mana source, but your engine also counts )

which seems good in my eyes

Translating a dutch proverb into English is a bit weird

I had a Tourney today (Castricum), and I've brought the deck to a 6th finish (4-1-1), which seems good in my eyes

[Note: don’t think this is a flamebased/arrogant reply, it’s just random comment (and like Rvs said, we’ve tested the deck since GenCon last year, so we have quite a good grasp of the matchups/plays]

Imo, 4-1-1 is not something to be proud of, considering the circumstances. Because basically;
-It’s Castricum
-You only played against 2 “tier1” full-powered decks (4cc/Oath)
-Your results in these matches, 0-1-1, (1-2/1-1), but you could’ve easily won game 3 against Oath (and IMO, both are good matches)
-Some of your plays were questionable...if not "horrible"

[ I saw some random plays in your match up against Oath (game 3). You keep a mediocre hand, only because it has Boseiju, Island, Mana Crypt, Tinker.... You start with the Boseiju. He starts playing about 4-5 mana sources, and an Oath of Druids. You Tinker (using the Boseiju) for a Colossus. He screws up, not Oathing, but hardcasts a Platinum Angel (you know he plays it, and if he didn’t hard cast it,  he would’ve Oathed it in play, and you would’ve been “screwed” anyway). You start beating with the Colossus, putting him at 0 life. He starts beating with Angel. And time’s up. Turn 3 of extra time, you’re at 8 life, drained something for 2, fb’s a Deep Analysis, going to 5, almost burning for 2 (and die next turn @ platinum), but you topdeck an Intuition + land, you randomly think about the Mana Drain mana. You intuition for 3 Replenishes, but you have no Enchantments in your graveyard (well...a bargain, but bargain in play if you’re at 1 life next turn isn’t really good, is it?), instead of Intuitioning for 3 Seal of Cleansings and winning the game in turn 5 of extra time. He screws up again turn 4, casting Will for Demonic in grave, not searching for a Time Walk to win the game and match, but something else. You both agree with the draw, but, in the 5th turn, you still could’ve won. ]

Beating 3-4 "scrubs" playing non-powered decks isn't really an argument you can use to "prove" a deck is good...

[Mixing Mike]

Lotus Petal gives you that extra white source you need early game.  Academy has done nothing but wonders for me.  It's won me sooo many games by allowing me to cast turn 2 Intuition with Mana Drain backup.

This is my current manabase (excluding Bazaars)

5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
4 Tundra
5 Islands
3 Flooded Strand
1 Tolarian Academy

I added sooo much acceleration because the deck has a terrible first turn without being able to cast 3CC spells right off the bat.  Careful Study almost solves this problem, but adding so much speed to your manabase will allow you to play TFK and Deeps on turn 1 more often than not.  This wil give you a far better advantage than Careful Study ever could.

[IHESM]

This is my current manabase (excluding Bazaars)
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
4 Tundra
5 Islands
3 Flooded Strand

I added sooo much acceleration because the deck has a terrible first turn without being able to cast 3CC spells right off the bat. Careful Study almost solves this problem, but adding so much speed to your manabase will allow you to play TFK and Deeps on turn 1 more often than not. This wil give you a far better advantage than Careful Study ever could..

22 "sources" (+4 bazaar = 26), and you also played an Academy? (not on the list?). That's indeed a lot of acceleration. I agree though, that the deck has a terrible first turn. Careful Study isn't really good enough anyway imo, but Thirst can be a bit slow.

 I'll test this later (I guess ), to see if accel is worth it for me, idea is good though, still don't know if it's worth it yet but I'll give it a shot

[CCClark]

I know I'm going to get bashed for this, but I am going to say it anyway.  

I actually have 2 Bosigie (however you spell that), he who shelters all in the main.    I know CIPT stinks.   I thought about that card forever and tried to come up with the most devastating card I could think of you would never want countered and I got Replenish.    The decklist is similar though I just used solitary confinement as the win.  I like the dragon touch actually.  

I board in 2 more Bosigie's and 4 Stifles.  It works well for countering wastes and making sure I never need to go into the counter war over a Replenish.    I even thought about sacred ground over the stifles as the bazaar and bosigie are the main keys anyway.  

You may give that a shot and see why I like it.   Only a thought.  : )

[rvs]

I know I'm going to get bashed for this, but I am going to say it anyway.  

I actually have 2 Bosigie (however you spell that), he who shelters all in the main.    I know CIPT stinks.   I thought about that card forever and tried to come up with the most devastating card I could think of you would never want countered and I got Replenish.    The decklist is similar though I just used solitary confinement as the win.  I like the dragon touch actually.  

I board in 2 more Bosigie's and 4 Stifles.  It works well for countering wastes and making sure I never need to go into the counter war over a Replenish.    I even thought about sacred ground over the stifles as the bazaar and bosigie are the main keys anyway.  

You may give that a shot and see why I like it.   Only a thought.  : )

Oh man, that is the answer! Cut all the carddraw and counters!

[Hemgath]

Hi Guys and good job for this topic and the works arround replenish/bob
But i had a question, i totally understand this deck is not the same as dragon but what do yu think about pandeburst?
IMO pandemonium and Sapproling burst are quicker than form of the dragon... It's a simple newb question but yur answer really interesting me (i actually work on a pandeburst and now on Leviat because of they similar interest).

[LeRoux]

IMO pandemonium and Sapproling burst are quicker than form of the dragon... It's a simple newb question but yur answer really interesting me

I'm pretty sure that there are a couple reasons behind playing Form of the Dragon instead of those two cards. One of them being that Form of the Dragon as your only Replenished enchantment can equal game, all by it's own (Yes, it does destroy some decks by itself, especially Control Slaver). Another reason that explains the inclusion of Form instead of the PandeBurst combo is that PandeBurst will always deal a maximum of 21 Damage. That means that if you want to kill a Platinum with it, you can't kill the player. If a player damaged you with an Exalted Angel earlier in the game, you're also in trouble. If he has the possibility to Sword to Plowshares one of his creatures with power higher than 2-3 (Fetchs and FoW does deal damage indeed), you are dead again. So the only advantage resides in that Pandeburst can kill instantly, but can also screw you royally!

[rvs]

The reason this is better than Pandeburst is simply because the combo-pieces alone are pretty good already (well, not in all matchups, but in many), and like LeRoux also mentions, you can get past stuff like Platinum Angel.

[andrewpate]

@LeRoux
I don't really see Form of the Dragon as being that great against Slaver.  I mean, you can obviously keep the board clear and prevent Mindslaver recursion, but they really just need to activate 1 of them in order to kill you with your own Form.  Isn't trying to kill a deck based on Mindslaver with a card that makes it so easy to kill yourself kind of a bad plan?  Pandemonium/Saproling Burst at least kills immediately and keeps them from ever getting a chance to take control.  Not saying that it's better, just saying that it's a harder call than you make it out.

[49 Cents]

You intuition for 3 Replenishes, but you have no Enchantments in your graveyard (well...a bargain, but bargain in play if you’re at 1 life next turn isn’t really good, is it?), instead of Intuitioning for 3 Seal of Cleansings and winning the game in turn 5 of extra time. He screws up again turn 4, casting Will for Demonic in grave, not searching for a Time Walk to win the game and match, but something else. You both agree with the draw, but, in the 5th turn, you still could’ve won. ][/i]

That isn't True IHESM. There was a Humility in my Grave and I was 0-1 behind when the time was up.

Greetz,

Hugo

[Mixing Mike]

Uh, hello, Solitary Confinement spells GG against Slaver decks, not to mention half the metagame.  I'll admit it's a little scary to play it though with something like Form, Bargain or Bazaar out in play.  Otherwise they'll just get ahead of you and win the turn they answer it.


Still, Confinement is amazing in that match up, as is Humility.