Doomsday wins scrub 5-proxy in Berea, Ohio

[Ephraim]

I entered this tournament with a bit of trepidation. I was certain I'd be the strongest representative of the host store, but the Vintage tournaments there draw a couple of players from another store, who I'm aware know how to play Vintage and who actually own some Vintage-worthy material. I had nagging fear that despite having a deck worth playing, I'd end up not being half the pilot I claim to be. It turns out my fears were unfounded, though as I won the tournament with with an 8:2 (games) record. There were nine players present, five of whom were playing decks resembling competetive Vintage decks and four of whom were not (note that these four were not playing competetive anything; I could have beaten most of their decks with any of my casual decks.) We played four rounds of Swiss with no Top N cut. The prize structure was 25/20/15, with a $5 door prize to all other entrants (it's how the store owner encourages the kids to play; he could cut the entrance fee to $5, but this way, he guarantees to sell $5 more product per entrant)

I was playing a modification of Meandeck Doomsday. This morning, before the tournament, I had taken out Mana Vault and a Chromatic Sphere to put in Pulse of the Grid and Frantic Search to help alleviate the pain of drawing Beacon of Destruction. I'm not fond of any of the Tendrils kills this deck can execute. In fact, in the future, I'd almost certainly replace Tendrils of Agony with a second copy of Beacon. For the most part, I was very happy playing with Cabal Therapy over Unmask. It takes a little bit more skill to use effectively, but I think I was able to guess wisely every time I played it. Cunning Wish and the Wishboard didn't serve me all that well. Nor did I often find Pulse of the Grid to be very good. I may also replace the second Chromatic Sphere with something blue, just to get more cards that pitch to Force of Will. I don't really know what I'd replace them, with, but even something stupid like Tolarian Winds or Careful Study would be better in those positions (the deck is pretty consistent, so it isn't a far stretch to say that if I discard 4 cards, none of which are Doomsday or Dark Ritual, there's a decent chance, I'll find one or both.)


Ephraim Glass, 05 March, 2005 (Proxies marked P)

Win Conditions (6)
1 Beacon of Destruction
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Doomsday

Assorted Restricted Goodies (13)
R Mind's Desire
R Yawgmoth's Will
R Mystical Tutor
R Vampiric Tutor
R Demonic Tutor
R Lotus Petal
R Lion's Eye Diamond
R Mox Jet (P)
R Mox Sapphire (P)
R Black Lotus (P)
R Ancestral Recall (P)
R Windwfall
R Time Walk (P)

Disruption (12)
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Force of Will

Card Drawing (7)
4 Brainstorm
1 Pulse of the Grid
1 Frantic Search
1 Cunning Wish

Mana Acceleration (8)
2 Chromatic Sphere
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual

Land (14)
1 Underground Sea
2 Underground River
1 City of Brass
3 Swamp
3 Island
4 Gemstone Mine

Sideboard
3 Echoing Truth
3 Fire & Ice
3 Coffin Purge
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Rack and Ruin

***

Of the eight other players, I managed to record seven of their deck lists. The first four lists will be from the players who had a bit of Vintage savvy, the remaining three from the players who did not.

Player 1
Textbook Meandeck Doomsday (as per SCG, Nov., 2004). The only difference was that this build had Seasinger in the sideboard instead of Old Man of the Sea


Player 2 -- Food Chain Goblins

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring

4 Food Chain
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Recruiter
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Goblin Warchief
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Skirk Prospector

1 Forest
6 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothils

Sideboard
3 Artifact Mutation
4 Naturalize
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Red Elemental Blast


Player 3 -- Landstill

4 Brainstorm
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Fire & Ice
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Drain
4 Nevinyrral's Disk
4 Standstill
   
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Time Walk
   
4 Faerie Conclave
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Energy Flux
3 Maze of Ith
4 Propaganda


Player 4 -- Green Aggro with Tangle Wire

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Eternal Witness
4 Land Grant
4 Living Wish
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Rancor
3 River Boa
4 Root Maze
4 Skullclamp
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Tangle Wire
4 Wild Mongrel

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
   
5 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
2 Treetop Village

Sideboard   
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kami of Ancient Law
1 Maze of Ith
1 Quirion Ranger
1 River Boa
2 Serenity
1 Strip Mine
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Viridian Shaman


Player 5 -- White Aggro

1 Aven Brigadier
2 Aven Cloudchaser
3 Aven Liberator
1 Brilliant Halo
1 Catapult Squad
1 Congregate
4 Daru Warchief
2 Death Ward
1 Entangler
3 Frontline Strategist
1 Gerrard's Wisdom
2 Gustcloak Skirmisher
2 Holy Day
2 Holy Strength
1 Inviolability
2 Mobilization
1 Plansewalker's Mirth
2 Raise the Alarm
3 Sacred Nectar
1 Serra's Embrace
2 Stir the Pride
1 Valor
4 Vengeance
2 Warning

16 Plains


Player 6 -- Elves

4 Ageless Entity
3 Blanchwood Armor
2 Elvish Aberration
3 Elvish Champion
2 Glissa Sunseeker
4 Heedless One
3 Horned Helm
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nourish
4 Regeneration
1 Serpent Skin
2 Treetop Scout
1 Trolls of Tel-Jilad
2 Viridian Shaman
1 Voice of the Woods
4 Wellwisher
2 Wirewood Pride
4 Wood Elves
3 Wooden Sphere

13 Forest

Player 7 -- White/Red Aggro

4 Anaba Shaman
2 Angel of Mercy
4 Angelic Page
1 Arrest
2 Barbed Lightning
1 Blaze
2 Cage of Hands
2 Chastise
2 Crossbow Infantry
1 Disintegrate
2 Fireball
2 Flametongue Kavu
4 Frostwielder
2 Glorious Anthem
1 Granulate
4 Hallowed Healer
1 Jeska, Warrior Adept
4 Loxodon Anchorite
2 Noble Templar
2 Pacifism
3 Shock
2 Sizzle
4 Spikeshot Goblin
2 Volcanic Hammer
 
9 Mountain
10 Plains

***

Round 1 -- Landstill
Game 1: My opponents from the other store were clearly not expecting anything resembling a challenge from my store's competitors today. In fact, my favourite moment from this tournament was the look on my opponent's face after my first play. He had won the coin flip, played Faerie Conclave, then passed his turn. On my turn, I played a Swamp and cast Cabal Therapy. I was only sure of two of the cards that Landstill runs (Standstill and Nevinyrral's Disk), so I called Standstill. The look on my opponent's face when he realized that somebody from my store knew what deck he was playing after one card was absolutely priceless. He didn't have any Standstills, but was packing several Mana Drains. In the following turns, I was able to Duress away his Crucible of Worlds, but  he kept me in bad shape by establishing Drain Mana before I could do anything and then Wasting and Stripping two of my lands. I struggled for a few more turns and then conceded when he drew into a Crucible of Worlds.

Game 2: I came out swinging with plenty of mana and an early Cabal Therapy naming Mana Drain. I drew into Force protection by turn 3 and cast Doomsday on turn 4. It turned out to be unnecessary and I won on turn 5.

Game 3: This game was mostly unmemorable. I popped a couple of Standstills on my way to setting up, but I had plenty of Duress and Force protection at all times. On the turn after I cast Doomsday, my opponent tried to cast Ice on my one blue mana source during my upkeep, but I correctly recalled that my mana pool wouldn't empty until after my draw step. I generated blue and cast Ancestral during my draw step, then won during main phase.

Result: Win (2-1)

Round 2: Green with Tangle Wire
Game 1: He got a Root Maze down early and then started beating down with a Wild Mongrel. I knew my win depended on me being able to tap/sac the Lotus on the same turn I cast it, so I couldn't win with it on the table. I had Doomsday and Ritual in my hand, but I wasted precious turns fetching Chain of Vapor from my sideboard.  By that time, he had laid down a Tangle Wire, which was preventing me from untapping enough lands to go off. By the time I had the material to engineer a victory, I was too close to death to cast Doomsday and pass the turn.

Game 2, 3: Nothing memorable at all happens. I have realized that this player is, for all intents and purposes, a goldfish, and I treat him as such, winning both games handily.

Result: Win (2-1)

Round 3: Food Chain Goblins
Game 1: I kept a questionable hand, consisting of Swamp, Duress, Duress, Cabal Therapy, Cabal Therapy, Doomsday, and something irrelevant. Fortunately, my opponent mulliganed to 5 and I figured that I had a chance. I played Swamp, Duress and nabbed a Food Chain, noting the relevant cards in his hand (Piledriver, Recruiter, Siege-Gang). I pass the turn and he plays Piledriver. Second turn, I drew Lotus, cast Cabal Therapy, naming Recruiter, and passed. He did nothing of note and passed. I drew Gemstone Mine, cast Cabal Therapy, naming Siege-Gang, played Lotus, Doomsday, and went on to win the following turn.

Game 2: I had the almost-God-hand. I lacked Force protection, but I had a black source, a blue source, Dark Ritual, and Doomsday. He played a Mountain and passed. I played City of Brass, Dark Ritual, Doomsday. On his turn, he drew a Wasteland and I thought I was dead. Then, he went ahead and used it to cast Pyrostatic Pillar -- this, after he'd SEEN me use the Beacon kill the previous game. If he'd just Wasted my City of Brass, I would have lost, but he didn't. Needless to say, I did not cast five 3-cc spells on my way to victory.

Result: Win (2-0)

Round 4: White/Red Aggro
This round is hardly worth mentioning. I'm not even sure why a fourth round was necessary -- In any case, the only reason I was playing this kid was because I played the other three people with 4-2 records in rounds 1, 2, and 3. I had 3'rd turn win hands both games and his deck (unsurprisingly) mana screwed him both games.

Result: Win (2-0)

After four rounds, I'd won every match I had played, which no other player could boast. The guys from the other store wanted to cut to top 4 and keep playing, but the store owner (rightly, in my opinion) decided that I had fairly earned my first place and that he wasn't about to make me play the three people I had already beaten in a finals round. Cutting to top N makes sense in a large tourney, but here, we'd all already played one another, so there wasn't any good reason to do so. I took the first prize and two of the guys from the other store split the second and third prize. I later discovered that the four guys from the other store were a team, so I'm glad the store owner decided not to cut to top 4. Sure, I could have won those games as well, but since the other three contenders were all on the same team, they had absolutely nothing to lose if he decided to cut, since they were splitting their prizes anyhow.

[M.Solymossy]

forgive me if i'm being mean, because that surely is NOT the intention, But...what is there to be learned by reading this?

is there a reason why you would put a second beacon in the deck if you played again?

also, Pulse of the Grid is a very underrated card (read my Tournament results for that as the only two decks playing Pulse got top 4 and finals), but cut one of the cards that lets you win THE TURN you Doomsday?

more explanation please...

[Jacob Orlove]

forgive me if i'm being mean, because that surely is NOT the intention, But...what is there to be learned by reading this?

I moved this into the main tournament tournament report forum primarily to show budget players that it's quite possible to win 5-proxy tournaments when you're missing key staples (polluted delta!). It's good to remember that people on extreme budgets still stand a chance in their local events.

[Ephraim]

The reason why I added Pulse of the Grid and the reason why I am adding a second Beacon of Destruction are closely linked. Drawing Beacon of Destruction makes it very hard to win. If you draw it, you then have to find a Brainstorm, Windfall, or (heaven forbid) a Cabal Therapy to get it someplace where Doomsday can get at it, to put it on the bottom of the stack. Adding Pulse of the Grid and Frantic Search gave me an additional means of discarding Beacon, if I drew it. Furthermore, in the testing I did (and, incidentally, in the tournament today), I never felt like I had enough blue cards to pitch to Force of Will. By taking out two artifacts and putting in two blue cards, I increased my concentration of pitch material.

Thus, removing Tendrils of Agony and adding a second Beacon now helps to ensure that even if I draw one, I'm still able to go off with the deck's preferred kill. I found that the Tendrils kill of which the deck was possible required far too much setup to be reliable. I'd rather focus on doing one thing and doing it well than preparing for a contingency that doesn't arise particularly often.

I am also well aware of how good and important it is to try to win on the turn in which one plays Doomsday. Toward that end, I've made additional modifications to the deck. For starters, Cabal Ritual, Pulse of the Grid, Frantic Search, Cunning Wish, Lotus Petal, and Yawgmoth's Will were dragging me down. Pulse of the Grid and Frantic Search didn't do half as much as I had hoped they'd do, so pulling them was an easy decision. Cabal Ritual seems like a good idea from all angles, but in practice, I found that I never used it. Cunning Wish was too slow to be of much use. Lotus Petal and Yawgmoth's Will are obviously controversial cuts to make, but I feel they were not contributing much to the deck. Lotus Petal probably helped to make a first turn win possible, but in doing so, it added only negligibly to my ability to win on subsequent turns. Since the chance of winning on turn 1 is fairly small anyhow, I decided that it was better to play with cards that would significantly improve the deck's ability to win on turns 2, 3, and 4. Yawgmoth's Will was never useful in the course of a normal game. One, it has terrible anti-synergy with Doomsday. The cards I would most like to recur, I have to leave sitting in my graveyard, because casting them ruins the Doomsday stack. Furthermore, without a slew of other broken cards, I won't be able to cast Yawgmoth's Will in the first three turns of the game with any appreciable effect. In most games, I'd be much better off having engineered a victory by that time.

These cuts leave me with seven available slots. I've filled them with two more Chromatic Spheres, two Echoing Truth, and three Sleight of Hand. Chromatic Sphere, as you noted, allows me to win the turn I cast Doomsday. With Cunning Wish out of the maindeck, Echoing Truth makes a fine reactive solution to anything on the board when I'd like to go off.  Sleight of Hand simply fulfils my desire to have more card-drawing in the deck. As a bonus, it increases the deck's consistency and can help me to dig into my stack the turn I cast Doomsday. Also note that these changes increase the number of blue cards (pitchable blue cards, since things that must go in the Doomsday stack can't be pitched!) from 14 to 16.

[nartman99]

Something told me that I should have put 4 Stifle into my Landstill sideboard earlier that day before I went to that tournament. This was only my second time going to the Attic though and I remember going 4-0 with my really budget 7/10 decklist that I threw together the only other time that I was there, so I did not expect the metagame to have developed at that store like it had.

On the decklist itself, besides the 5 proxies and the Timetwister replacement, Windfall, the deck itself is not very expensive to make. I think that you should slowly acquire the typical cards for this deck because they will also be good for other decks along the road. Also since you are taking out Cunning Wish, I would consider using something similar to Menendian's Doomsday sideboard because it is very good against the current Type 1 metagame. It should help out your matchups against experienced Type 1 players since you should be able to beat any other form of random aggro that may appear at the Attic.

3 Energy Flux
3 Back to Basics
3 Defense Grid
3 Old Man of the Sea
2 Null Rod
1 Chain of Vapor

I knew that I should have played Slaver at this tournament. I have never lost a game to Doomsday with Slaver. Oh well. Congratulations on your win and hopefully we'll see you again when Jerome decides to host another tournament!

[Fatback3000]

Flame deleted. He wasn't insulting you at all, so there's no reason to go off the deep end.
-Jacob

[Ephraim]

Calm yourself. I didn't mean to insult you or your deck. All I was saying is that it was an aggro deck and that therefore, as the combo player, my best strategy was to ignore what you were doing entirely. I'm sorry that my tone was flippant. I was just trying to enliven an otherwise dry statement.

[kombat]

Yawgmoth's Will was never useful in the course of a normal game. One, it has terrible anti-synergy with Doomsday. The cards I would most like to recur, I have to leave sitting in my graveyard, because casting them ruins the Doomsday stack. Furthermore, without a slew of other broken cards, I won't be able to cast Yawgmoth's Will in the first three turns of the game with any appreciable effect. In most games, I'd be much better off having engineered a victory by that time.

No offense, but I believe you're failing to recognize some crucial synergies in this deck.  I have also been playing Doomsday a lot lately, and Yawgmoth's Will is absolutely crucial in this deck, as it allows you a way to win on the same turn, even under a Null Rod (impossible using the normal stack).  Here's how:

You cast Dark Ritual and Doomsday, building the following stack: Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus, Lion's Eye Diamond, Yawgmoth's Will, Tendrils of Agony.  Get the Ancestral into your hand (using Brainstorm, Chromatic Sphere, or Phyrexian Furnace), cast it.  Then cast Lotus and Lion's Eye Diamond.  Sac the Lotus to cast Yawgmoth's Will, sacrificing Lion's Eye Diamond for BBB in response.  Recast Lotus and Lion's Eye Diamond, sac them both for more black mana.  Re-cast the Phyrexian Furnace or Chromatic Sphere (whatever you used to draw the first card), then use it again to draw the last card (the Tendrils). Re-cast the Dark Ritual for some more black mana, bringing your storm count to 9. Cast Tendrils for the win.

This is a surprisingly flexible win condition, as you can do it even if your Lotus or Ancestral have been removed from the game.  In the case of a Null Rod being in play, you could replace the Lotus and LED with Dark Rituals.

There is another stack that uses Yawmoth's Will with Beacon of Destruction for the kill, instead of Tendrils.  You can do that one on the first turn, if you have Brainstorm.  You seem to be stuck thinking of Yawgmoth's Will in the conventional way.  In that case, you're right, its utility is limited, since it only becomes broken in the mid to late-game; a period combo decks seek to avoid, as they prefer to win in the early game.  But if you instead start thinking about actually using it in your Doomsday stack, you'll see that it is yet another path to victory for this deck.

Also note that these changes increase the number of blue cards (pitchable blue cards, since things that must go in the Doomsday stack can't be pitched!) from 14 to 16.

As I described above, you needn't fear pitching Ancestral Recall to a Force of Will, if your opponent is casting something you absolutely must counter.  You can win just fine with Brainstorm.  With Brainstorm in your hand, build the following stack: Black Lotus, Lion's Eye Diamond, Yawgmoth's Will, Mind's Desire, Beacon of Destruction.  Cast Brainstorm, drawing the Lotus, LED, and YawgWill, and put back 2 random "filler" cards that you already have in your hand.  Drop the Lotus and LED.  Crack Lotus for BBB to cast YawgWill, saccing LED for UUU in response.   Use U to re-cast Brainstorm, drawing the 2 random cards and the Mind's Desire, put the 2 random cards back.  Recast Lotus and LED, sac them both for UUU, then cast Mind's Desire with your storm count at 8 (assuming you cast Doomsday this same turn).  Mind's Desire will resolve 9 times, and 7 of those will reveal the Beacon of Destruction, for a minimum of 35 damage.  WITHOUT Ancestral Recall.

There are many, many more stacks that can be built using the cards you're removing from the deck (you can even build a winning stack using Timetwister - figure that one out!).  I think you're limiting yourself to the most "comfortable" win condition, but at the expense of stability and reliability of the deck.  You're making yourself more vulnerable to disruption.  You don't need 2 Beacons; you need Polluted Deltas so you can shuffle the Beacon away when you put it back with Brainstorm.  You need Cabal Ritual, but you're wrong about why.  It's not in there for the mana; it's there to pitch to Unmask (which you've also stripped from the deck).

I'm glad you were able to win your local tourney, but I caution you that your deck would be an underdog in a serious tournament, or even in a mirror against Steve Menendian's already optimal build.

[Ephraim]

Kombat, I appreciate your advice. I was familiar with some of what your said, but much of it was new to me. For starters, you've highlighted a key deficiency of my deck -- I don't have fetches or Seas, right now. That makes drawing Beacon of Destruction much more dangerous than it would otherwise be. Nonetheless, you've also suggested a number of ways in which I can build a stack with Yawgmoth's Will to win. My biggest gripe with the Yawgmoth's Will stacks is that they all seem to require that one have a Brainstorm or Chromatic Sphere to kick things off on the same turn in which one casts Doomsday. This doesn't just make this win condition less "comfortable," as you put it, but less reliable, since it takes more cards to execute.

I think I also see a flaw in your description of how to win after pitching Ancestral Recall to Force of Will.

Crack Lotus for BBB to cast YawgWill, saccing LED for UUU in response. Use U to re-cast Brainstorm, drawing the 2 random cards and the Mind's Desire, put the 2 random cards back. Recast Lotus and LED, sac them both for UUU, then cast Mind's Desire with your storm count at 8 (assuming you cast Doomsday this same turn).

You say to pop LED for UUU, while Mind's Desire is in hand, to provide the mana to cast Mind's Desire. I understand the principle, however. I think I could sacrifice LED in response to Brainstorm. Or, I could, with a second source of mana, forgo sacrificing the LED a second time. I should have UU left over from the first time I used it, plus UUU from Lotus, and a sixth mana from a land or a Mox gives me enough to cast Mind's Desire with a high storm count.

Nonetheless, I can see the value of Yawgmoth's Will and Tendrils of Agony in the deck. Tendrils will replace the second Beacon of Destruction and Yawgmoth's Will will replace one of the three Sleights of Hand that I added.

[Donq]

Thoes who have visited the store where this tournement was played understand why people go there.  Yes you will run into 'scrub' players and the meta-game might not be at the level some might be used to playing,  but right now it is what Jerome has comming in consistantly.  The only reason he had a type one tourney that day was at the request of the scrubs.  So all we can do as more seasoned players is make the experience as enjoyable as possible.  I've played everyone envolved in this tournement and I never mind losing to any of them, what upsets me the the attitude that if I happen to win it was because they played poorly. Their are many players out there who forget about enjoying the game and only play when it benifits them.  I'm not sure I've ever seen Team Teck play a game 'just for fun'.  I can only hope that maybe they start frequeting the attic more often, he has the best prices on packs and singles you will find and treats his customers the way they sould be treated.  Their is a Pesant tourny set for the Saterday before easter, lets get some people in for that one.  And always remember, if you bring a gun to a knife fight, don't complain if you get shot.

[nartman99]

Hey now, who said that we were Team Tech?

Honestly, I just wanted to play in a tournament that wasn't full of sharks for a Mox. You can forget how the game can be fun when your playing Slaver. (Well, it can be really fun if your playing Slaver) But beating someone down with lands is also fun. I really just wanted to show up and check out the singles. Jerome owed me 18$ in store credit anyways.

If we were really out to collect on the singles, I don't think that I would have used my store credit for some Shelving, foil lands, and the rest on Beef Jerky like we did...

[Ephraim]

I'm sorry that I suggested you guys were trying to mise the tournament. You're right that your purchases weren't really consistent with that. There wasn't any strong evidence to support that idea. I just went a little bit conspiracy-theorist-paranoid when some of you pushed for a top cut, when I was undefeated after four rounds. Even if your intention was honest, you have to admit that it could only help you guys and could only hurt me.

On a side note, I'm Jerome's Peasant sponsor, so if the people looking at this thread like Peasant Magic, drop me a p/m (especially if you're not on Jerome's mailing list) and I'll see about promoting Peasant tournaments more often and I'll get your email addresses (if you want me to) to Jerome.

[nartman99]

I just thought that it was odd because I have never played in a tournament before where Top 8 or Top 4 cut straight to prizes as opposed to the Top 8 or Top 4 playing for prizes. If I pay money to enter a tournament and do well, I expect to play more than 4 rounds...

[Ephraim]

I can see cutting to top 8/4 in a bigger tournament. In a 64-player tourney, for example, I'm pretty sure that each person in the top 8 will not have faced any other player in the top 8 during the N rounds of swiss necessary to establish a top cut. In a 9-person tourney, though, that doesn't happen. In this case, I know I'd faced each of the three players below me during swiss. I don't know if any of you guys played against each other during that time or not. In any case, if you feel miffed about only getting four rounds, next time I'll back you if you want to go with round robin. Although some matches may go to time, I think that trying to squeeze in eight rounds between 1:30 and whenever Jerome closes on Saturday (7:00, at least, I think) is a possibility.