[Premium Article] Having Fun with White Cards in Type One

[Toad]

Toad i'm not trying to say you stole his decklist, you clearly took the idea of the combo, you just made it into a poor win condition, why cunning wish to win, when you can win RIGHT NOW, I know that concept is probably too hard for you to grasp, and with bird*shit and EBA on the rise, don't say meddling mage is that uncommon, because those are both decks that have recently topped 8 and big venues.

I've discussed the Meddling Mage issue on this thread a couple of times already and there is about 20 lines in the article about Aether Spellbomb. I will not answer question on this subject anymore since all I have to say about this has already been said.

Back this up with testing please.

I didn't test and excessive amount against it, but I did test a few games, and the deck dies out quickly, so I pretty much whipped up on it, SO FAR, i'll test further against it.

The deck has won 2 tournaments in 3 shows. I have played it for 2 monthes now in its final design (that is with the Auriok Salvagers kill) and about 2 more with other finishes (Belcher or Darksteel Colossus, read the other articles written about this). I have played it against competent opponents and other testing partners did so (most notably, the dutchies and the germans). All came to my conclusions, so I'm considering my testing process as quite accurate.

and another thing, what do you do against a deck that has a blessing in the maindeck?

You read what Phyrexian Furnace does.

No, it wouldn't be expecting that, also, I never said he had to give him props, but you can't deny lotushead came up with the basis of the deck.  When I say basis I mean the combo part of it, Toad customized the deck largely, and I am in no way saying he stole the deck.

This is not an Auriok Salvagers deck. It is a Gifts Ungiven based deck. If you want to find who designed the basis of the deck, go and ask Carsten Kötter. This deck is closer to Andy's Charbelcher build or Team CAB's Darksteel Colossus build to LotusHead's build.

[TrixR4Kidz]

Alright, i'm going to stop posting because obviously all of the "leet" members are comming into toads defense about it, and whoever put there was no salvagers forum, is wrong, and clearly doesn't remember it, I am almost positive I can have kowal vouche, and I know I can have sextiger, and purple hat vouche for it as well.

so keep on truckin

[LotusHead]

and whoever put there was no salvagers forum, is wrong, and clearly doesn't remember it...

There were Salvager Threads, but not actual Salvagers Forums.  There WAS a Suicide Black forum a while back (with other dead decks), but not an actual Salvager Forum.

Gifts Ungiven is clearly what this deck is about, and given that all decks use Black Lotus, the point is to combo off somehow, using Drains and bait and whatnot. Salvagers happend to be the combo Critter (like Dragon-Who cares if it's a 7/7 Flying Trample? it could well have been a 0/7 with the same weird ability. You just want to animate it)

I would actually agree that this is NOT a Salvager Deck, it's a Gifts Ungiven Deck.  Any references to my build or this are simply of two different decks entirely.

Also, as has been mentioned, this deck was built in Europe to deal with a European metagame.  We love our Control Slaver out here, they like Storm decks out there.

That being said, at the moment, I'd rather protect a 1G enchantment then protect a 3U instant.(edited...sigh)

Lastly, I never thought a Salvager deck could look so WEIRD!

Stay focused, people!

[TrixR4Kidz]

3U sorcery? gifts ungiven is infact an instance, and YES there was a salvager forum, i'm not gonna repeat this again, there was a salvager forum for about 10 minutes, ask Sextiger, Outlaw, Purple Hat, and maybe even kowal remembers this, i'm not lieing

[kalkhasse]

However, I have just a few questions on the article/deck:
1. The gifts of regrowth, will, lotus, and salvagers, you say they will most likely give you regrowth and lotus. But the question is, what the hell do you do with will when you can’t combo when it gets played! Your deck needs to cards to win, no?  Cause you need to win on your mainphase, and you cant possibly win the turn you cast will.

I think this question was good.

What happens if they give you Will and Lotus? Then you can't win that turn becuse if you play Yawgi lotus gets removed, your Yawgi will not be a game-winner because all the card draw is so expensive. You would have to play Yawgi and play Salveger and pass the turn, if you dont have Timewalk. Isn't it better to give you Lotus and Yawgmoth's Will then?
Or am I missing something?

[Toad]

Yawgmoth's Will is always a game winner. You got Brainstorm, tutors, cheap artifacts,  Regrowth, fetchlands, Duress and other stuff to replay out of the Yawgmoth's Will.

[Whatever Works]

How do you feel this deck compares to ShortBus Severence Belcher (which has also posted strong results and consistent top 8's), I was curious because that is the other Gifts ungiven based deck in the format that is considered to be good.

Playing the Severence Belcher for several months, and testing this deck for a few days I found both to be strong, and have similary good matchups vs. Control slaver. However, I noticed that this deck though it has the ability to play slightly more agressive then the Shortbus deck is much more easy to hate. Severence Belcher can easily play around graveyard hate, and usually sideboards out welders vs. any deck that brings in lava darts, and is incredibly resiliant. In the games I played with this deck it was extremely effective game 1, but in the post sideboard matchups it had trouble with alot of cards (that go way beyond the odvious card meddling mage).

Cards that I found to be ennoying beside Mage included:
STP
Stifle (more of an ennoyance)
Tormod's Crypt
Sphere of Resistance (I had alot of trouble "playing around" this card)
Coffin Purge (This card is seeing alot more play post 3sphere)
Ground Seal (I didnt test this but I am assuming it would be rather good vs. this deck)
CoTV (*will see alot of play post 3sphere)
Cranial Extraction

I just wanted to know if you considered the deck superior, or would you consider them to different to compare though they are both based around Gifts Ungiven. (note my Severence Belcher aka SB2 list is 4-5 cards different then Probasco's which might warp results slightly)...

Overall, good work making a good deck that actually runs white cards.

[Toad]

I have been playing a Mana Severance + Goblin Charbelcher Gifts Ungiven based deck for about 1 month before switching to Auriok Salvagers. I found this build to be faster (wining takes a lot less mana) and more consistant. The Germans, who played both builds really intensively, came to the very same conclusions.

Most of the cards you are listing are minor annoyance. That is, Swords to Plowshares, Sphere of Resistance, Stifle and Chalice of the Void. All these cards only address the deck's winning processus. This is hardly relevant when facing a Control deck. That's like saying The Abyss is a strong sideboard card against Psychatog based decks, for example. Tormod's Crypt is annoying but can easily be played around if you are conservative. And Cranial Extraction destroys every single T1 deck so mentioning this card here is not what should really be addressed.

[kalkhasse]

I have tested the deck a little and I am overall happy with it. It's a good deck and it's fun to play.
The only thing that I want to do is to find room for another island. Because I play alot against Wastelands I felt that 24 mana was a little light.
What would you suggest cutting for an island?

[Toad]

I've been playing with 61 cards lately, with an additionnal Island. Seems fine so far, but It's quite untested yet.

[Bram]

Oh my. Just when people start accepting the fect that a Frenchman devised a decent deck that uses white cards that aren't Balance, Swords or Decrees, he adds a 61st card...

Drain Slaver is designed around Goblin Welder. You'll draw more Goblin Welders if you run 4 in a 60 cards deck than in a 61 cards deck. The one card difference will cost you games.

That was from this thread. Substitute several deck and card names for new ones, and you basically have the same argument (yes, I realise the deck doesn't pivot as much around one specific four-of as Drainslaver does, but it's still no less true that you decrease the odds of drawing everythign in your deck except for blue mana).

I'm loathe to restart that particular discussion again in here, but I feel it should be said regardless. You cut your original lost down from 61 to 60 before you published, right?

[Toad]

You cut your original lost down from 61 to 60 before you published, right?

No, I had a 60 cards build too for testing. I'm trying 61 for mana issues due to serious German influences
It dilutes the deck though, you are perfectly right about this, so this is just a temporary change to see if I really need the additional land in a post Trinisphere metagame. If so, I'd cut an other card to go down to 60.