Resurfacing of TnT

[DuCK]

My New TnT for all to see.  I've been playtesting it for over a month now..

Mana/Land (26)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
3 Forest
1 Mountain

Creatures (22)
4 Goblin Welder
4 Juggernaut
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Triskelion
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Masticore
1 Duplicant
1 Platinum Angel
1 Viashino Heretic

Brokeness (2)
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Memory Jar

Other Spells (10)
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Tangle Wire
2 Blood Moon

Sb:
3 Artifact Mutation
2 Rack and Ruin
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Elvish Lyrist

I think i counted that right...

For those who think aggro is dead: play this.  Obviously combo is a hard matchup, but the maindeck angel is there, and the deck runs a bunch of disruption while beating heads in.  Chalice and Trin are in sb specifically for the combo matchup, as is tormod's crypt for dragon.dec and cerebral assassin.  Goblin Sharpshooter is a metagame choice and one of the best I've made.  Random creature decks started popping up after the restriction of trinisphere, and I needed more answers.  Quirion ranger is a classic and also pairs very well with the sharpshooter.  Viashino heretic usually ends up in the sb, but ended up maindecked because artifact decks are still prevalent, and random null rods suck.  

Playtest it, lmk what you guys think, thx.

[warble]

Maindeck Trinisphere.

I can't . . . no I won't . . . believe you didn't maindeck Trinisphere.  Do you not pray to draw it in your opening hand with a workshop?  If you don't . . . then what kind of Workshop player are you?!?!?!?!

[DuCK]

i had the trinisphere maindecked for a while, but the version i was running it with before also ran crucible.  This one runs blood moon. Really the only matchups i board it in for are the combo and random cheap aggro matchups.  Late in the game it's usually pure crap and that's why it's not maindecked

[Marton]

late game it's not pure crap it still stops devastating yawgmoth's wills.

[Dante]

FYI - You listed Dryad in your deck, but mention Q. ranger later. Also, you've got 1 Blood Moon listed under "broken" and 2 Blood Moon listed under "other".  ??

You say you've been playtesting this for months, care to share the results (i.e. how many games vs which decks and the results)?

On your mana base - having played TnT for a long time, I found 28 mana sources to be optimal.  You're running 26 (but you've got the simulacrum).  How's that been?

Bill

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

26 is fine. When TnT was running 28 mana sources, it was running wastelands and no ancient tomb. The amount of colored mana is still relatively the same.

Have you tried out pyrostatic pillar? It's pretty spectacular vs. storm combo, which you know will be popular post-restriction of 3sphere. Also, I'd probably try and fit in a sundering titan, as that card in TnT is pretty ridiculous. Have you tried Razormane Masticore? Regeneration seems like a pretty weak ability (seeing as how you have welders), and Razormane beats the CRAP out of any aggro based decks.

Finally, I think it might be worth looking into a splash for black. Chains of mephistopheles is amazing; you significantly slow down their ability to search for an answer while beating for 5-10 a turn.

-Bob

[DuCK]

Yes there are errors in the post.
NO quirion dryads.  1 quirion ranger is in the deck.
2 Blood moons.
By the time you read this, most likely I will have already edited the original post...
26 seems to work well with the 2 simulacrums.  Mulligans with the deck happen about once every 8-9 hands for land resons..  Simulacrum is definitely worth 2 slots if you run blood moon.  When I did run 28 (-1 forest, -2 tombs -2 simul +4 waste +1 strip), I found I was mana flooded half the time...

More thoughts on trinisphere:  It's not worth a slot maindeck for this deck.
Workshop is still all over the place where I am, and sometimes random aggro.  I have tested it maindeck and it didn't work for me.  If your metagame supports it, use it main.

---- Posts merged here ----

Razormane masticore sounds like a good solution for wrecking the null rod based creature decks.  The reason masticore was in the was for the kill the creatures now effect.  However I have goblin sharpshooter main and 2 trisks which all handle that nicley.

Some matchup analysis:
Fobidden Oath:

Originally this was a difficult matchup and still can be if they get that first turn oath.  I was running eon hub and naturalizes in the sb as well as a maindeck elf replica, however due the less oath decks than expected being in my metagame, all of those cards were pulled and 2 lyrists are in there now.  
Before sideboarding this matchup seems like it could go either way.  It becomes much more difficult if they drop a first turn oath with an orchard, however my answers to that are dropping survival with a welder, and fetching duplicant.  If they don't have an orchard, blood moon owns and if I was able to drop a survival without a creature in play, I could setup my win by dropping hasted welders with duplicants.
After sideboarding the matchup only seemed to get easier.  Chalice dropped early for two owns the deck for a while.  Lyrists 1st turn help with the oath.  Their sideboard cards, energy flux and pristine angel posed little or no threat to me.  Occasionally rebuild was in and that is probably the best thing oath can do against a chalice for 2.
Lately I've been sb like this though:
-1 Heretic
-1 Masticore
+2 Lyrist

Slaver:
I've had no problems with this matchup at all.  Early aggro/welders/shaman/karn/sharpshooter wrecks the deck.

4cc/3cc
There are so many different builds of this deck that it's hard to give an accurate matchup analysis.  A version that ran isochron scepter gave me trouble but overall this matchup was purely based of they deck player's play skill.  Swords hurts, seal of cleansing hurts, and those combined with the counter power with scepter will do me in.
Generally I sb in a trin some chalices.  What I take out really depends on the build.

More matchup analysis to come later, but gtg now...

Posts merged, no double posting please.

Hyperion

[Sean Ryan]

I was playing some games with a friend of mine who has been out of the loop for awhile and had an old r/g TnT built.  So, we decided to see how it would do against my current gauntlet.  Needless to say, it had a tough time but actually did better than I thought it would.  His list maindecked Pyrostatic Pillar which proved to be the MVP.  After a bunch of matches I showed him what 5/3 looked like before the restriction of Trinisphrere and explained that it was the evolution of Workshop aggro.  This prompted us to combine the the two decks into this hybrid.  It is far from tuned but take a look.

Workshop Aggro/beta run 4/1/05

TOOLS & TUBBIES:
4 Welder
4 Jug
1 Karn/Shaman ?
1 Titan
1 Platz
1 Trike
1 Duplicant
1 Razormane Masticore

DISRUPTION:
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Swords to Plowshare

DRAW & BOMBS:
3 Survival of the Fittest
1 Squee
1 Demonic tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timewalk

MANA:28
7 SoLoMoxen
2 Mana Crypt/Vault
1 Academy
4 Workshop
3 Waste
1 Stripmine
1 Ancient Tomb
4 CoB
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Glimmervoid

SB: (for a general meta: suggestions are appreciated)
1 Trinisphere
1 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Null Rod
3 Chalice
3 REB
3 Seal of Cleansing
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Tormod's Crypt
********************************************

1) 5c MANA BASE

It worked for 5/3.  The only problem is that you lose Anger, one of classic TnT's strongest weapons speeding up the kill by at least a turn.  The other issue is that you are running close to 20 colored cards and that demanded the Glimmervoid as the 9th 5c land.

2) DRAW& BOMBS (or rather blue & black cards:)

Broadening the mana base for things like Ancestral, the Tutors and Tinker have made the deck much less dependant upon Survival than in previous builds. Therefore I dropped the number down to 3 and haven't regreted it since.

3) DISRUPTION:

Now that Trinisphere has been neutered, Chains of Mephistopheles is one of the most disrupting global effects one can run against both control & combo.  People always talk about this in relation to combo but it hurts control almost as bad, especially when you are dropping threats repeadedly with a deck like 5/3 or TnT.  The same principle apples to Pyrostatic Pillar.  The Crucibles are a neccesity when running this mana base and you still have access to Tutor/Strip as well.  

4) TOOLS & TUBBIES:

The choice of utility creatures is obviousley up for debate and dependent upon your expected metagame.  However, I would be hesitant to go much lower in the number of big creatures/threats.

************************************************

I would appreciate any comments or constructive critiscism as this is definantly a work in progress - that may or may not pan out.

Thanks
Sean

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

The single swords in TnT is ass. You run duplicant and 3-4 survivals to get it (not to mention vamp, demonic, and tinker). Replace it with a trinisphere. Also, 5c manabases don't work in TnT. You NEED colored mana MUCH more than a deck like stax or 5/3. The deck is heavily reliant on green mana, and with gemstone mines/cities, you'll be taking ALOT of damage or losing your lands quick. Also, running basics means you stand somewhat of a chance when decks bring in B2B and Energy Flux. TnT with white is foolhardy, as it offers basically nothing. That leaves blue, black, and red. Red is AMAZING because of Pillar and anger, so it's the 2nd color. As for the third color, judge for yourself. If you see randomness, run blue for Wonder, Tinker, Walk, and Recall. If you see lots of control and combo, run lack for Chains. You can EASILY run a solid 3c manabase without 5c lands. When I played TnT back in the day, I was NEVER set on a single list. The deck is not strong enough where you can change 3-4 cards and call it good. It takes metagaming.

Also, just a note, tutors in TnT aren't that spectacular. As discussed in the past, it's a tempo loss. Your two drops are 4 survival and either 3-4 pillars or 3-4 chains. I'd atleast run 2-4 su-chi's as the deck is still tools and TUBBIES. At worst, su-chi gives you mana with welders. Also, the reason the deck was good in the first place was because of hasted welders. Anger is usually target #1 w/ survival, and cutting it may end up hurting the deck too much.

I haven't tested the deck too much recently, but I speculate the deck should do pretty well vs. slaver. Angry Juggernauts > Slaver. I would post my decklist, but I really don't want to clog up this thread.

-Bob

[MrZuccinniHead]

how is TnT's enchantment better than oath's?

[Rico Suave]

how is TnT's enchantment better than oath's?

Because  they will Oath up Akroma, and TnT will Survival up an Angry Welder to recur Duplicant.

[Sean Ryan]

@ Clown of tresserhorn -

Thanks for your input.  We only played against control/combo/prison, but no aggro so the lands weren't that big of a deal.  Thinking over your logic though I must contestadmit[/color] that you'[/color]re[/color] probab[/color]lly right.  While blue gives you raw brokenness I really think the black with Chains are the way to go.  Got any suggestions for a manabase? I'm having a difficult time trying to keep it at 28 mana sources under this configuration.

Thanks
Sean

v. con·test·ed, con·test·ing, con·tests (kn-tst, kntst)
   2. To call into question and take an active stand against; dispute or challenge: contest a will. See Synonyms at oppose.

Poor diction is my sworn enemy!
-Matt
[/color]

[Vegeta2711]

For the first decklist: It's going to get run over by most decks that are more powerful than you (Combo and a good Slaver start) purely because the disruption is limited and not very good.

You need more than Tangle Wire and Blood Moon for sure.

Pyrostatic Pillar, Chains of M. and Chalice (MD or SB) are all solid choices for additional disruption. In fact they're probably more useful than your current disruption base (Over Blood Moon anyways).

[DuCK]

blood moon first turn neuters so many decks in t1.  decks with academy, bazaar, manlands to name a few... Not to mention it's a house against 4cc and 3cc
Also I do run the chalice and the lone trin in the side for those combo matchups, but chalice can easily screw me over as well, which is why it's not maindecked.  Pillar? No room =/  Chalice is better imo.

[Juggernaut GO]

the only reason TnT is better then other aggro decks is Anger.  Without it, there isn't any reason to play the deck.  That's one huge reason 5c mana bases don't work.  I had to decide between running black for chains or blue for tinker/thirst/ancestral/timewalk.  The beatdown mode of adding blue is just a much better choice, the deck is all about putting pressure on your opponent and not being on the defensive every turn.  Here is my current decklist:


3 Tropical Island
4 Taiga
4 Mishra's workshop
1 Tree of Tales

12 lands


1 Duplicant
1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion
1 Squee
2 Su-Chi
4 Juggernaut
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Anger
4 Goblin Welder
1 Platinum Angel
1 Colossus of Sardia
1 Pentavus
2 Elvish Spirit Guide

21 creatures

1 Mindslaver
1 Time Walk
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Land Grant
2 Intuition

27 spells


sideboard:
3 arcane lab
3 pyrostatic pillar
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Eon Hub  (not even sure why I still run this)
1 Echoing Truth

This deck has Trouble with 2 other decks : Control Slaver, and 2 land Belcher.

2 Ideas I had were to just add null rods and ground seals into my sideboard, side ground seal against slaver and null rod against 2 land belcher.  Sure, this may hurt this deck, but it can still put a 4 turn clock on someone with  a single juggernaut.  That is time they have to scramble to find an answer to either the ground seal or the null rod.  

And as was pointed out earlier, storm combo is an easy matchup as long as you run pyrostatic pillar in the side.  Mulligan until you get one

Many people laugh at the colossus of sardia, but it wins games, and is a great finisher.

The tree of tales is only 1 card, but it can make the game if you cant seem to draw an artifact, or they just counter every one you play.

[Vegeta2711]

Here's the thing, Blood Moon really doesn't neuter that much.

1st turn on the play it's plenty hurtful, past that? It gets worse the later you play it. Even playing it first turn on the draw isn't that good, because your opponent will fetch a basic. You also cannot reasonably draw it with only 2 in the deck, nor reasonably cast it turn 1. In addition it will absolutely cripple your ability to play Survival since you can't fetch a Forest anymore.

Also note that the decks it affects to a great extent are few and far between.
CS doesn't care.
Sensei doesn't care.
Aggro-Control only cares if you drop it turn 1.
3cc can power through it.
Workshop decks it effects you just as much as it'd effects them.
Deathlong only cares about turn 1
TPS doesn't care

etc. etc.

Chalice is good as long as you set it correctly and won't harm you so much in the maindeck. Chains it the best, but you don't run it. Also Pillar goes along with the gameplan of killing the opponent while improving game 1 combo odds.

[NicolaeAlmighty]

If you can't fetch a forest... why can they fetch a basic? I think Blood Moon can be more of a bomb than what you think. Chains and Moon are on the same level. They can be bombs, or they can be the first thing nabbed for sideboarding. It's all just a matter of what the metagame relies on more... nonbasics or card drawing  

[JuJu]

Uhm. The entire metagame depends on card drawing. People stopped playing nonbasics when Crux got big. Chains is a hella lot cheaper too. I'd rather chains over Moon in this deck any day.

[DuCK]

the benefit of running 2 colors is a more stable mana base than the 3 color version.  Maybe if i was running crucible I would consider another color, but as is the deck runs great without it.  As I said before, blood moon stops academy and bazaar both, and those are seen in my metagame often.  Other workshop decks being affected less? Not unless they're aggro as well, because of the slower clock they run.  I can drop turn 1, 2 big beats and/or welders and then a tangle wire into a moon, or just a moon, and destroy their acceleration, and sometimes their blue source(s) as well.

[NicolaeAlmighty]

Uhm. The entire metagame depends on card drawing. People stopped playing nonbasics when Crux got big. Chains is a hella lot cheaper too. I'd rather chains over Moon in this deck any day.

No duh... Hence the smiley and understood sarcasm. I don't think Blood Moon is too powerful in this meta. Definitely go with Chains

[Disburden]

I'm a big advocate of Chains in pretty much any deck (stax) with a lighter draw engine such as this TNT deck that was posted (The first list, which is the subject of the topic at hand).

 I have no experience playing TnT, never played the deck (but I am interested), so I have a simple question I have yet to see be answered. If everyone is saying Chains over Blood Moon, then why hasn't anyone concentrated on an optimal mana base?

 To me running the brass/gem mine base that Stax uses would be a mistake in such a deck, which was dicussed earlier in the thread. But other than that I really haven't seen much addressing this issue. Say you splash in Black for Demonic Tutor, Vampiric tutor, Chains and that is all. How would you configure such a mana base to accomodate the main colors in this build? Since the 5c prismatic path was already shot down from the sky so to speak, how would you (Anyone) work out such a tight list to splash? What would be taken out for demonic/vamp tutors, etc.

[JuJu]

Uhm. The entire metagame depends on card drawing. People stopped playing nonbasics when Crux got big. Chains is a hella lot cheaper too. I'd rather chains over Moon in this deck any day.

No duh... Hence the smiley and understood sarcasm. I don't think Blood Moon is too powerful in this meta. Definitely go with Chains

Obviously I sence sarcasm from someone I've never seen post...

Back to the matter at hand. The mana base in TnT has been what's caused it to been taken out of the metagame so many times before. I played it a bit just after GaT got neutered. The mana base got screwed over so many times it was amazing. I hated it so much. I'm not sure if Chains is worth it if you have to remake the already fragile mana base. I haven't tested this, nor will so if anyone has results. Post them and allow everyone to go over them.

[trickydan]

1 bloodstained mire
3 wooded foothills
1 forest
1 mountain
4 taiga
3 bayou
4 mishra's workshop
8 solocryptmoxen
1 mana vault

has tested to give timely access to the needed colored sources with 2 solemn; however it has neither ancient tomb nor wasteland/stripmine, which could make it suboptimal. i just cant see a configuration with more colorless sources allowing for smooth acess to black while retaining any number of basics and giving access to sufficient green and a mountain for anger.

my configuration for the rest of the maindeck:
4 juggernaut
2 triskelion
1 razormane masticore
1 squee, goblin nabob
1 anger
4 goblin welder
1 platinum angel
1 gorilla shaman
2 solemn simulacrum
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 karn, silver golem

1 demonic tutor
3 chains of mephistopheles
2 pyrostatic pillar
4 chalice of the void
1 trinisphere
4 survival of the fittest

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

The manabase really depends on what you run MD. I don't run Solemn, so my basics count isn't as high as everyone else's. Also, I run 3 Crucible MD, making fetchlands spectacular. With that in mind, a sample manabase would look like:

4 Workshop
3 Waste
1 Strip
8 MC SoLoMox
1 Mana vault
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Mountain

There's still mad issues with the manabase, but I think it's a solid start.

As far as disruption goes, I think it's agreed on that chains is the best possiblt disruption. Something along the lines of 3 chains, 3 Crucible, 1 trinisphere should be sufficient.

-Bob

[Dante]

The manabase really depends on what you run MD. I don't run Solemn, so my basics count isn't as high as everyone else's. Also, I run 3 Crucible MD, making fetchlands spectacular. With that in mind, a sample manabase would look like:

4 Workshop
3 Waste
1 Strip
8 MC SoLoMox
1 Mana vault
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Mountain

There's still mad issues with the manabase, but I think it's a solid start.

I don't think that's enough red.  Only running 4 Fetch and having to break one of them for a basic mountain sucks.  Only running 2 Taiga + mountain, I think you'll be cut off from red, esp since most people run red heavy sideboards (RnR, AM, REB, 4th Pillar, etc).

If you want 3 colors to work, I don't think fitting in 4 strips is feasible with a 3-color, 28 mana source mana base.  When I ran it (I ran blue), I could only fit in 2 strips to get the consistency I needed (long term green for survival, plus mountain for Welder/Anger).  Also, my third color was blue and not getting around to Ancestral/time walk for a few turns while waiting for a blue mana source is less bad than not casting turn 1-2 Chains.  The longer it goes without black, the worse it gets.

[Methuselahn]

I love Crucible in this deck.

It's a great card to topdeck in TNT.  The Wasteland-Crucible lock compliments your fatties nicely, of course.  The selling point for me is that it goes a long ways in fixing your mana base inconsistancies.  Fetchlands are so good with Crucible in TNT.  A bonus to playing Crucible over something like Blood Moon is that you can weld it.

I wonder if this thread's mana base discussions are, at heart, based on which side of the Crucible fence they are on.

[Lord of the Goats]

as much as i love tnt (and i'm sure that dante will attest to that), i have to question why it would be a good deck to play.

survival is too slow.  hands that are based on survival are very weak, and welding in a silver bullet is not as effective as it once was. survival was extremley good in the metagame where tnt first got big. keeper was king, but there wasn't much draw in keeper. gat could draw like a mother, but it couldn't handle mana denial at al so survival had time to get active. tangle wire in tnt originated as a way to punish gat for useing gush in a way that waseland would not. anyway, at one time you could open with survival, and if it resolved then you won. that is no longer the case. you need to lead with fat now in a way that you didn't need to then. when hulk started to get played, my testing results were that hulk would ignore survival and just out-draw you.

tnt's fat isn't enough preasure anymore. su-chi sucks, and simulacrum needed to be a 5/1. you really need 5 power dudes all the time otherwise you lack the preasure to make them do much of anything before they were ready to.  this trend started with hulk, and has not improved.

tnt needs to draw cards. there are 2 reasons for this. the first is that it needs a way to find threats (or answers) that is effective early game, and also will break a topdeck war. the second reason is that tnt has always  had a weak mana base because of it's heavy reliance on both green and red mana.... while being reliant on workshops. stop and think about that. in order to actually use this deck you need a shop, and 2 colored sources. that means that you don't start even trying to really do anything until your 3rd land drop. most decks are set up on turn 2 to answer you.  anyway, ignoring for the moment that the deck is too slow, it needs a way to fix it's mana early game, and throw back mana later. however it can't do that without running blue (because sylvan sucks now), and running blue will:

1) cost you wastes
2) make you vulnerable to wastes
3) cost you either titan or anger (and why play tnt then?)

basically tnt needs consistancy. the places where it once found consistancy (survival, sylvan) are now too slow. furthermore it's threats are sub par at the moment.

i also feel that tnt has always kind of hidden behind it's disruption. blood moons steal games, trinisphere steals games, crucible, tangle wire... all steal games. however, none of those are survival friendly and all of them impede your use of survival. you'd much rather have any of those disruptors in play than a survival which says to me that survival is a win more card now.  you're arguably better off running 4 intuitions and cutting green.

i say all of this as a tnt player. i would love for it to come back strong. i have it all pimped out and bb... but i think it needs a revamping of the cutting survival sorts.

[DuCK]

as much as i love tnt (and i'm sure that dante will attest to that), i have to question why it would be a good deck to play.

survival is too slow.  hands that are based on survival are very weak, and welding in a silver bullet is not as effective as it once was. survival was extremley good in the metagame where tnt first got big. keeper was king, but there wasn't much draw in keeper. gat could draw like a mother, but it couldn't handle mana denial at al so survival had time to get active. tangle wire in tnt originated as a way to punish gat for useing gush in a way that waseland would not. anyway, at one time you could open with survival, and if it resolved then you won. that is no longer the case. you need to lead with fat now in a way that you didn't need to then. when hulk started to get played, my testing results were that hulk would ignore survival and just out-draw you.

tnt's fat isn't enough preasure anymore. su-chi sucks, and simulacrum needed to be a 5/1. you really need 5 power dudes all the time otherwise you lack the preasure to make them do much of anything before they were ready to.  this trend started with hulk, and has not improved.

tnt needs to draw cards. there are 2 reasons for this. the first is that it needs a way to find threats (or answers) that is effective early game, and also will break a topdeck war. the second reason is that tnt has always  had a weak mana base because of it's heavy reliance on both green and red mana.... while being reliant on workshops. stop and think about that. in order to actually use this deck you need a shop, and 2 colored sources. that means that you don't start even trying to really do anything until your 3rd land drop. most decks are set up on turn 2 to answer you.  anyway, ignoring for the moment that the deck is too slow, it needs a way to fix it's mana early game, and throw back mana later. however it can't do that without running blue (because sylvan sucks now), and running blue will:

1) cost you wastes
2) make you vulnerable to wastes
3) cost you either titan or anger (and why play tnt then?)

basically tnt needs consistancy. the places where it once found consistancy (survival, sylvan) are now too slow. furthermore it's threats are sub par at the moment.

i also feel that tnt has always kind of hidden behind it's disruption. blood moons steal games, trinisphere steals games, crucible, tangle wire... all steal games. however, none of those are survival friendly and all of them impede your use of survival. you'd much rather have any of those disruptors in play than a survival which says to me that survival is a win more card now.  you're arguably better off running 4 intuitions and cutting green.

i say all of this as a tnt player. i would love for it to come back strong. i have it all pimped out and bb... but i think it needs a revamping of the cutting survival sorts.

Ok, a couple of things.  First turn survival does win games unless they are playing a combo deck.  Silver bullet techniques do work and are absolutely necessary against decks like oath.  First turn fat is less essentail for battling oath then say, a first turn survival and a early welder, or vise versa.  As a matter of fact, most games that I didn't resolve a survival against oath were lost causes.  The mana base unstable? No. The mana base is strong because enough basics are in the deck and I run 2 solemns.  Does TnT hide behind its disruption?  No.  The disruption is there to slow down the opponent while beating down with a threat.  Blood moon is especially good at doing this, and if dropped first turn, often times it's good game.  Blood moon and survival don't have synergy you say?  I've been in situations when blood moon gave me the mountain I needed to make anger work, (casting blood moon with lotus or the red mox).  Also, solemn is a mana fixer and will fetch the needed green.  I run enough red in the deck to make blood moon worthwhile, and if I have one green source, and I usually do because I fetch one before mooning generally, I can cast the welders, sharpshooter, shaman, heretic.  Those by themselves are disruptive enough to make the game last longer, generally speaking.  Btw I don't run Titan, and I don't need titan, as the card has screwed me over on several occasions.  There are better things to run in TnT than titan.  TnT  can draw cards.  Memory Jar, Wheel of fortune, Solemn.  Survival is a tutor god in itself as well.  
Btw my decklist only runs 2 colors, and is the first post.  I don't like running multiple colors.  One change I'm testing though: -4 wire +4 Pillar

[Lord of the Goats]

The disruption is there to slow down the opponent while beating down with a threat. Blood moon is especially good at doing this, and if dropped first turn, often times it's good game.

first, i was the first person to have any success running main deck blood moon... in a 3 color version, so i know exactly how good and viable bloodmoon is.  if your metagame warrents it go ahead and run it... i have no gripe with that. that said, in testing take a look at haw many games you would rather cast moon over survival, or cast moon even though it cuts off your survival. unless moon is dead in the matchup you will almost always cast it... and sometimes even bait with survival.  this says to me that the disruption is more important than the survival.

second, oath is kind of a odd matchup and always has been. in fact i'd say that is the only matchup where survival is your primary game plan. this is much less true that they now have forbidden orchard since they can put you on a clock before you manage to resolve a hasted welder.  pretty much everything else can regularly race survival.

the mana base isn't unstable in terms of being color screwed. it's unstable in that you are simultaneously needing shops and 2 different colors of mana and depending on your version, wastes. which results in a somewhat awkard first couple turns a lot of the time where things don't match up as well as you would like. wheel, memory jar, or simulacrums really make a difference after this point in the game because they don't efficiently fix these problems. jar is amazing but it's a mid to late game card. simulacrums aren't card drawing unless you're winning and although as mana fixers they are good,  as threats they suck. wheel is symertical and not weldable so it's not the best either (and it requires 3 non shop mana).

as for titan, whether or not you play it depends on your disruption base. with trinisphere it's quite obvious, but since now other disruption is needed. it may not be as efficient and game ending.

on silver bullets, it's not so much that they aren't effective once used in the way that they are intended. it's that because you're tacking gg1 on to their mana cost or if they're weldable, they cost ggr1. i got tired of devoting a turn or more to tutoring and casting a game winning card into the mana drain they've been holding for 2 turns. tnt doesn't find cast, and protect silver bullets in a timely manner.

[Toad]

survival is too slow.  hands that are based on survival are very weak, and welding in a silver bullet is not as effective as it once was.

I'll second that thought. I've been thinking about putting TNT back into sleeves since Trinisphere got restricted, but Survival of the Fittest looks really underpowered now.

A first turn Survival of the Fittest is not what you want to do. Even if you are able to tutor up for a turn 2 fat (Juggernaut), It's a slow clock. If you wait for one more turn, time needed to dump Anger and Squee in your graveyard, you run straight into Mana Drain. Survival of the Fittest is great in the matchups where TNT can afford to take the Control route, that is against other Aggro decks and sometimes Oath (hasted Welder and Duplicant are great there, at least game 1).  Silver bullet strategies are outdated, since the tempo is way to slow to be efficient. Survival is great for getting Sharpshooter and kill Goblin Welders, but if  you don't have Sharpshooter active, chaining into It is to slow.

TNT also suffers in the card draw section. Solemn Simulacrum will only draw cards with an active Welder, and with an active Welder, there are far far better things to do, such as recurring Juggernauts or Triskelions. And Solemn Simulacrum is a 2/2 body, which is really lame in a format where Combo exists and where Control can go off turn 4 pretty consistently. Memory Jar is a 1-off and a late game card that can backfire, same for Wheel of Fortune.

I'd rather run Brainstorms and Thirst for Knowledge over Survival of the Fittest and its toolbox.