[Budget] KoboldClamp

[Shade]

Just like Oath, I used to play a causal Kobold deck back in the day.  I've been doing some research on KoboldClamp and Skullclamp and Glimpse of Nature are amazing additons to the deck I used to play.  So, I'm going to go the old U/G route, and try a budgetized version of the deck.

CREATURES (24):
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere

KILL (4):
4 Stroke of Genius

DRAW (14):
3 Collective Unconscious
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Skullclamp
3 Spontaneous Generation

UTILITY (1):
1 Crop Rotation

MANA (17):
1 Chrome Mox
4 Flooded Strand/Polluted Delta
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Lotus Petal
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Tropical Island

The idea of the deck, rather than to kill with Tendrils, is to kill with a massive Stroke.  Gaea's Cradle produces insane amounts of green mana in a hurry with this build, which is used on Spontaneous Generation and Collective Unconscious to keep creating creatures and drawing cards, until you draw into a massive Stroke.

My old version of the deck ran red for Goblin Bombardment, and also ran Coat of Arms for huge creatures.  Saproling Burst was also a fixture in the deck, to increase the creature count, but is not needed now.

Thoughts?

[Rastadon]

Now, I don't know much about this deck, but I do know this. Anything with a toughness greater than 1 in this deck is a no. You want to take advantage of Skullclamp as soon as possible, and Shield Sphere and the Walker don't provide anything else but an unclampable creature.

The rest is playtesting. If you can get consistant 2nd and 3rd turn kills, then carry on.

[Aykay]

-4 ornithopter, + 1 tendrils, + 3 genesis chamber  would make it pretty strong.  Glimpse + kobolds + chamber + clamp = ridiculous drawing and storming.

EDIT - Ancient Tomb, Mana Vault, and Sol Ring are all great mana accelerants for a budget deck ( I know where you're coming from hehe )

edit 2 : perhaps some city of brass or gemstone mine to support tendrils?

[E Face]

Walker and Sphere are fine for the deck because Glimpse of Nature draws cards for every creature you play, so it trades off 1 for 1 in terms of cards. If he had the Goblin Bombardments in the deck, a clamped anything would still draw two cards, but thats just an idea.


A suggestion to the deck builder. Try running Cloud of Fairies in the deck, as untapping your Cradles or Academy is perfect when going for the stroke kill. And the Fairies clamp as well, making them a perfect fit. I would probably cut some number of Spheres and Walkers for them, but the Spheres are great if aggro and aggro control is prevalant in your meta, allowing for defense early and then getting low enought to clamp off eventually if need be. A Fastbond is cheap to buy and would work perfect in your build as well.

Also, does having 4 of the same legendary land ever hurt you?

[Rastadon]

The reason why Cloud of Faeries isn't an automatic inclusion is because it's blue. Kobold Clamp is good as just B/G, blue adds a headache of problems and reformatting the deck. Once you get some blue in there, you HAVE to add 4x Force of Will and Intuitions.

Tinder Wall looks perfect for this deck.

[Morganti]

some random thoughts about the deck.

chaos at its finest

some things to consider

tinderwal is awesome, replacing stroke of genius with uraz's rage means you don't need to run blue mana sources at all, (you can sac the tinderwall to draw 2 cards and add the 2 RR you need to play it with kicker, urza's rage can't be countered, which is a huge plus.

secondly, how would this deak deal with a first turn trinisphere? (rare now, but still) or a challice of the void set for 1 (almost as icky)

other things to consider, a xantid swarm for ensuring that you get to go off, myr moonvessles, Saproling Symbiosis rather than   Spontaneous Generation.  Anyhow some random thoughts

~D~

[tito del monte]

hmm.. just wondering the merits of going with a stroke based kill over a storm kill. Even if you're choosing to drop black from the deck, wouldn't it be easier to kill with brainfreeze than stroke?

otherwise, if you are going for a win based on generating massive mana with cradle/academy have you considered any of the following? : Frantic search, timespiral, candelabra of tawnos?

also, i'd definatley run tinke/jar in this build - at the very least as it gives another way of saccing a clamped creature with a toughness greater then 1, then can speed you into a draw 7 style win.

maybe if the blue count could be upped enough, you could also run FOW, making up for losing the disruption of duress/cabal therapy in the builds running black.

anyway just a couple of ideas - hope they're useful

[einlanzer625]

hmm.. just wondering the merits of going with a stroke based kill over a storm kill. Even if you're choosing to drop black from the deck, wouldn't it be easier to kill with brainfreeze than stroke?

otherwise, if you are going for a win based on generating massive mana with cradle/academy have you considered any of the following? : Frantic search, timespiral, candelabra of tawnos?

also, i'd definatley run tinke/jar in this build - at the very least as it gives another way of saccing a clamped creature with a toughness greater then 1, then can speed you into a draw 7 style win.

maybe if the blue count could be upped enough, you could also run FOW, making up for losing the disruption of duress/cabal therapy in the builds running black.

anyway just a couple of ideas - hope they're useful

is it just me, or are you trying to change this deck into TPS

[Rastadon]

Shade, sorry I ever doubted you. I tried out the other OCC creatures and they're great. You can clamp one, then feed it to a therapy, Diabolic Intent, or Culling of the Week. It's genius.

I love this deck, its so damn chaotic!

1 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Bayou
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
12 Kobolds
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Skullclamp
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
4 Dark Ritual
4 Culling of the Weak
4 ESG
1 Lotus Petal
4 Diabolic Intent
3 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Land Grant

I want to have a low land count so I can up the Land Grants, they're great. And contrary to popular opinion, Yawgmoth's Will is the backbone of the deck, every Kobold Clamp deck should have one. I'm also debating if I should replace Shield wall with Ornithopter, a minor detail but its bugging the crap out of me. Also, I'm not sure if this deck could benefit from Tolarian Academy/Gaea's Cradle.

It's a great deck and I'm looking to make it better without killing my wallet.

Edit: I'm thinking about ditching Glimpse of Nature. I don't like it too much, it makes me play my creatures all at once, which screws up my storm count if I'm not about to win that turn.

[Shade]

Updated decklist time!

CREATURES (28):
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
4 Tinder Wall

KILL (4):
1 Goblin Bombardment
3 Urza's Rage

DRAW (10):
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Saproling Symbiosis
4 Skullclamp

UTILITY (2):
1 Crop Rotation
1 Fastbond

MANA (16):
1 Chrome Mox
1 Forest
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mountain
1 Sol Ring
2 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills

I really like the red in the deck in place of the blue.  Tinder Wall is awesome, and I've always wanted to make good use of Urza's Rage.  And, most importantly...Goblin Bombardment is back!

I've cut down to 1 Cradle due to lack of space, but it's still very good, especially when combined with Saproling Symbiosis.

So far, I think this may be tighter than the G/B build.  It just seems more synergistic.  Thoughts?

[Shade]

Btw, just for comparison, here's my B/G build:

CREATURES (20):
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker

KILL (2):
2 Tendrils of Agony

DRAW (8):
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Skullclamp

UTILITY (6):
4 Diabolic Intent
1 Fastbond
1 Yawgmoth's Will

MANA (24):
4 Bayou
1 Chrome Mox
4 Culling of the Weak
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Gaea’s Cradle
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring

So...which one is better?  The only thing that worries me about the R/G version is MisD.

[Rastadon]

Tendrils is a better kill IMO because its uncounterable by conventional means. I've always seen Black to be the 'You die this turn' color, Red couldn't possibly replace the mana acceleration and all around brokenness that Black offers. Culling, Ritual, Songs of the Damned, WILL!, No Rest for the Wicked (Possibly), Carnival of Souls, etc.

With that in mind, I'm tossing around the idea of a B/W Kobold Klamp deck with Auriok Steelshaper and Steelshaper's Gift to find Skullclamp more easily, It's amazing how little it shows up my deck aaarg.

Edit: I've just done some playtesting with Songs of the Damned. Too damn good. I'd highly suggest to everyone to take out a Dark Ritual and put this in. When going off or in a pinch for mana, you can Diabolic Intent for it and get anywhere from 4-10 mana for B. I wouldn't do more than 2 because you still need Dark Ritual to power you through your first turns.

[JamesPr]

I am posting my Kobold decklist even though a bunch are already posted because I mine has quite a bit of differences compared to the other builds posted thus far.

I designed a very inexpensive kobold list that isn't half bad.  The way I see it, if you have blue duals and power you play a different more resilient to hate combo deck.  If you don't have blue duals and power and you play in a scrubby meta you can give kobolds a shot with a decent chance at being competitive. 

Here is my budget version

4x Ornithopter
4x Kobold of Kher Keep
4x Crimson Kobolds
4x Crookshank Kobolds

4x Cabal Therapy
2x Duress
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain (I don't use this too often, however if played it almost always ensures a win on that turn)
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Demonic Tutor

4x Dark Ritual
4x Culling of the Weak
4x Diabolic Intent
4x Spoils of the Vault
4x Skullclamp

2x Tendrils of Agony

4x Land Grant
4x Bayou
4x Swamp

There are a couple things things interesting about this deck.  First off there are ten tutor affects.  This is a whole lot ensuring you can get your skullclamp almost every game turn one.  Secondly there are 4x Culling of the Weak in here.  I've found in testing that getting more mana is essential to skullclamping a chain of kobolds, in addition the mana culling provides is black unlike a Gaea's Cradle where green mana is pretty much useless.  Also there are only 12 ways to get a land.  I haven't had too many problems with this, but I imagine going up to 14 or 16 would be something to definitely do if you find you aren't getting land and your Land Grants are getting countered.

To play this deck
You simply skullclamp a chain of Kobolds early on, using tutor effects to get more acceleration when needed.  Sometimes you need Yawgmoth's Will, and sometimes you don't.  Usually you tutor for a Yawgmoth's Will as one of the last things, replay everything, then tendrils for the win.

I found Spoils to be almost a one black mana demonic tutor in this deck simply because after you clamp a couple times and draw cards, usually the card you haven't drawn is the one you're looking for.  Chances are it's going to be one of the top cards, and you'll lose a minimal amount of life after playing Spoils to find it.

The Bad
Like every Kobold deck this dies horribly to hate aimed at about any storm combo deck.  It dies real bad.  4x Bayou are needed, I suppose you get get away with three Bayou, two would be near impossible to run this decently on, and one would be impossible.  I guess you could play with twelve swamps, but that would make your Tendrils and your clamps weaker.

[Rastadon]

Spoils is god awesome tech, I've used it in Dragon and it's sick. Just as a reassurance, what's the average life loss from a SotV? And are the removed cards worth it?

Your build looks good, but I'd swap out a Dark Ritual for a Songs of the Damned. After a long Kobold clamp chain and with a Diabolic Intent in hand, It's great to tutor for that one Songs and add anywhere from 3 to 15 mana to your mana pool and keep on clamping.

[JamesPr]

Spoils is god awesome tech, I've used it in Dragon and it's sick. Just as a reassurance, what's the average life loss from a SotV? And are the removed cards worth it?

Your build looks good, but I'd swap out a Dark Ritual for a Songs of the Damned. After a long Kobold clamp chain and with a Diabolic Intent in hand, It's great to tutor for that one Songs and add anywhere from 3 to 15 mana to your mana pool and keep on clamping.

The average life loss varies usually depending on what I'm looking for.  If it's a four of, and I haven't drawn a copy yet out of ten or so cards the life loss could be two or three.  If it's a 2 of like a tendrils, I take significantly more life loss.  The removed card loss does hurt quite a bit, but it's a small price to pay for as you put it a sick card.

Well, I don't think I would ever get 15 mana from a songs.  I imagine 4 or 5 is pretty common.  Still, this deck's most important turns are the first and second turns, and songs is a little slow during those.  With this deck if you don't win fast, you will lose. 

Also usually I don't clamp that many times before I have a lethal tendrils.  Maybe about three or four times in the same turn.  Usually at that point I run out of ritual mana and tutors.

[A Black Lotus Buddy]

I would add Quirion Dryad, just in case the Kobold strategy doesn't work out.  Chalice for zero totally owns this deck   Never mind, Chalice for one owns this deck.  Doesn't stop Dryad from being a good alternate win.


I can't believe I spelled "one" wrong

[Rastadon]

I would add Quirion Dryad, just in case the Kobold strategy doesn't work out.  Chalice for zero totally owns this deck

Oh no it don't. Glimpse is a great draw engine, possibly on the same level as Skullclamp. And Multani's Prescence beggs to differ. Chalice for 1 is a different story, and even that can be dealt with. But the real threat to this deck is Trinisphere. How do you people deal with that?

And please if you think the deck sucks, then just don't post in its forum.

Well, I don't think I would ever get 15 mana from a songs. I imagine 4 or 5 is pretty common. Still, this deck's most important turns are the first and second turns, and songs is a little slow during those. With this deck if you don't win fast, you will lose.

Hence the reason why I only run 1. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.

[Sjoerd]

I just read the thread, and I am wondering why Genesis Chamber would be any good. I know it produces tokens to clamp, but you will need insane amounts of mana to clamp them. Chamber does not trigger Glimpse of Nature.

The mana needed for Skullclamp is usually my biggest problem and keeps me from going of in turn 1 or 2. I even tried adding white (proxy lotus and mox) for Auriok Steelshaper. If that is in play you're off to the races.

Could Channel be an idea for the extra mana. It would/could work exceptionally well in the build with the Gaea's Cradles...

I have added a death wish as well, just for those idiots who use Cranial Extraction, Lobotomy or Quash on your kill...

[Rastadon]

Sjored, what are your mana sources? Steelshaper isn't really needed, it only makes sure you can clamp. Usually, I just draw into alot of creatures/acceleration. My list holds up pretty well.

Who suggested Genesis Chamber? I've done some testing with it, and its not a card you'd want to have 4 of in deck. So you'd have to tutor for it. When can you tutor for it? Only when you're finished going off. Finished going off, as in it serves no purpose at that point.

Channel is a bomb in this deck. Unfortunately, I can't use it because my deck is more dependent on Black mana and it's pretty rare when I get GG. I mean Green green, I get good game quite often.

Death Wish just isn't worth it. There's 2 powerful engines in this deck. Unless they get rid of both, you'll be fine.

I'd like to bring up what are the kinds of creatures we can use for Kobold Klamp. This is just a list of creatures which could be used for clamp food and the like

The 12 Kobolds (Why you're even looking here for an explanation is beyond me. If you look here, you're a waste of life)
Shield Sphere (Clamp it, Intent it, extra card advantage)
Phrexian Walker (See Shield Sphere)
Tinder Wall (Acts as a mana accelerant when not clamping, would be an auto include if it produced BB)
Krosan Wayfarer (Sac to drop a Cradle/Academy anytime)
Veteran Explorer (Very similar to Tinder Wall. Only gets basic lands)
Myr Moonvessel (Not a fan but I've seen it done)
Blood pet (Not a fan)
Xantid Swarm (Control Killer)

Did I miss anything?

[chippi0069]

the deck needs disruption and FoW won't cut it since there won't be enough blue in the deck with so much being a dedicated draw engine.. 
Therapy/duress are a simple choice then.

that puts us into green and black...I don't think I need to argue why green is needed.

2   glimpse of nature
4   ESG
4   duress
   
12   kobold
4   ornithopter
4   myr moonvessel

3   earthcraft
1   sol ring
1   mana vault
1   lotus petal
1   fastbond
1   chrome mox
2   tendrils
4   skullclamp

16 lands of choice...earthcraft can target bayou i'm pretty sure
you don't even need cradle this way, but u def need a tutor for craft if u drop cradle

so you need to either hit fastbond or just get 4 guys in hand to float the mana u need

this looks like the smoothest way to generate clamp mana and tendrils mana without power and without using sub optimal cards that give short bursts of mana which u can fizzle with. 

Also if you ever need to untap after playing out a bunch of guys with glimpse u can float a crap load of mana

Let me know what u guys think

[Rastadon]

Woah dude. 16 LANDS??? Make that 4x Dark Ritual and 4X culling of the week and 8 0cc creatures.

[dennis_vo]

Why do the B/G builds run 4 Diabolic Intent instead of 3 Diabolic Intent and a Demonic Tutor? Or maybe even Is this because of budget reasons or because you want to sacrifice a creature so you can get more mana from Songs of the Damned and/or possibly Yawgmoth's Will the creature out later? But if you sacrifice it to a Diabolic Intent you're not drawing cards with it via Skullclamp. It seems to me that Demonic Tutor is strictly superior, and after seeing Gaea's Cradle in some builds, I don't think it's too expensive to be left out for budget reasons.

Am I missing something here? I know it's a sorcery, but so is Diabolic Intent. And it doesn't have to drawback of being able to remove your win conditions like the instant speed tutors Demonic Consultation and Spoils of the Vault. I'm not sure about this, but with all the card draw, even Vampiric Tutor seems to be a viable option over one of the other instant tutors if you want to play it safe.

EDIT: Oh, wait. I've found a Demonic Tutor in one of the later decklists. And 4 Diabolic Intent.  :shock:

[Rastadon]

It really depends on what your creature base is. If you run extra creatures and have sac creatures out the wazoo, 4 intents are okay. Otherwise if you're a little tight on the mana base, 1 Demonic Tutor and 3 Intents are optimal.

[Morganti]

Intent a Clamped Thopter/Shield Sphere/Walker

rather than the instant dead clamped kobalds...

fetch the win condition, draw more cards, sounds good to me...

~D~

[Rastadon]

Well, no. Not instead. The Kobolds are simply a must. Skullclamp + Kobold = 2 cards, where a sphere would be Skullclamp + Sphere + sac outlet= 2 cards + effect. The more cards you include, the harder it is to pull of. They're supplements, really. Every Kobold Clamp build NEEDS the Kobolds.

Can you help me decide what to proxy for a 5 proxy tourney? There's none around here, but hypothetically if I'm in NYC and there SO HAPPENS to be a 5 proxy tourney that day.

Mana Base
2 Forest
2 Swamp
4 ESG
4 Bayou
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

Mana Acceleration/Fixers
3 Dark Ritual
4 Culling the Week
1 Songs of the Damned
1 Sol Ring
3 Land Grant

Clamp Food
4 Ornithopter
4 Walker
12 Kobolds

Engines
4 Glimpse
4 Skullclamp

Tutors
3 Diabolic Intent
1 Demonic Tutor

Restricted Goodness:
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Kill:
2 Tendrils of Aaaaarg

Some issues I've been having problems with:

Its consistancy: When going off it will crap out because I can't find that free black mana source to pay for the 2x Dark Rituals/Cullings I have in my hand. Lotus Petal has helped ENORMOUSLY, so much that if you Extracted it deck would have problems. Chrome Mox doesn't get the same recognition because every card in this deck is important. I like the idea of Fastbond/Mox Diamond but I dont' know what to take out. ESG I think is the card to name here.

Its lack of disruption: It has no disruption. At all. Cabal Therapy looks like a bomb for this deck, but I don't know what to take out.

Its inability to find an engine: You have to mulligan your ass off here, because if you don't get an engine or an easily playable tutor, you're dead. I'd like to know what to add here.

Other thoughts:
A W/G Kobold Clamp would be sick with Glimpse + Scapegoat, but it would lack the accelleration of B/G and I can't think of a good green/white kill. Hunting Pack is eccch.

Thanks.

[Morganti]

i wasn't saying don't remove the kobalds, i was saying, that with intent you can search and draw two cards to keep the engine going, by clmaping the larger than /1 creatures and then intenting them off.  I personally like clamping and saccing to a goblin bombardment, but that is just me.

its sort of like tangleroot glimpse of nature skullclamp and gen chamber should be hard to ever run out of gas really, the issue is setting up those 4 cards

sort of like clmaping the thopter and saccing of for a culling the weak. culling gives you mana, intent gives you cards, both are very important functions of the deck to keep it from stalling out.

anyhow, thats my randomness for the day.
~D~