Ninja Sword

[ump]

First of all, here is a link to the original post in the Vintage forum.  http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22581

I too recently tried to make a deck starting with 4 Gorilla Shaman and 4 Withered Wretch.  However, I quickly scrapped it when I found out it was too slow to matter.  One thing that I learned was that Mox Monkey was bad against just about every deck, even Welder-based decks (because of Darksteel Citadel).  The first suggestion that I would make is to get rid of this useless creature.  I can understand that they are a useful one-drop to help the ninja, but playing a first-turn Shaman followed by a second turn Ninja is not exactly going to slow the opponent from completing his game plan.

However, I see a lot of potential in this deck.  I think it should take a page from EBA.  AEther Vial offers a lot of possibilities to improve the mana inconsistencies of that deck.  With that in mind, the deck needs to find room for 4 Duress and 4 Meddling Mage.  This offers a much better disruption base in the first couple turns.  It leaves the option for a first-turn Duress and/or AEther Vial, a second-turn Meddling Mage or Mana Drain, and an open third-turn with many possibilities including Sword or Wretch.  Speaking of Wretch, I don't think that this is a card you want to see in multiples because you are unlikely to play it and use its ability until turn 3, so there should only be 3 in the deck.

The way I see it, the deck should start with the following list.  I currently have no opinion on the other creatures because I haven't tested them yet.

3 Withered Wretch
4 Meddling Mage

4 Duress
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 AEther Vial

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

1 Lotus
5 Moxen

[Kasuras]

I don't think you fully understand the power of Gorilla Shaman in this deck.

I found out it was too slow to matter. One thing that I learned was that Mox Monkey was bad against just about every deck, even Welder-based decks (because of Darksteel Citadel).

Mind you, not every deck plays the Citadel. Hell, there's about 1 deck out there playing it! And Goth slaver isn't that much played really.. And you can still kill their Moxen, which is a pain in the ass. Also: Shaman is like the perfect outlet for your Drain mana. Removing Shaman would lead to removing Drain I think.

The first suggestion that I would make is to get rid of this useless creature. I can understand that they are a useful one-drop to help the ninja, but playing a first-turn Shaman followed by a second turn Ninja is not exactly going to slow the opponent from completing his game plan.

Actually, that's only your gameplan against decks that don't run a huge mass of artifacts. You won't bounce your own bomb for a drawing creature would you?

However, I see a lot of potential in this deck. I think it should take a page from EBA. AEther Vial offers a lot of possibilities to improve the mana inconsistencies of that deck. With that in mind, the deck needs to find room for 4 Duress and 4 Meddling Mage.

That's fine and all, but why is this necessary? I really don't see how you can get from saying that it looks like EBA that 4 Duress and 4 Mage must be in. A little more explanation would be welcome because honestly.. I don't see the connection that clear as you make it sound.

And finally about your list: Kowal included the 4 Shaman for a reason. That reason is to hate artifacts, and Mana Drain helps you with that. Your list lacks a lot of outlets for Drains and also a lot of maindeck removal which is necessary nowadays. Not to mention the fact that you lowered the creature count and don't have a turn 1 drop anymore for a turn 2 Ninja.

[tito del monte]

after reading the thread in the vintage forum yesterday i also thought about somehow incorporating meddling mage into the deck - he helps smooth out the casting costs for use with vial and can be dropped at instant speed as a pseudo-counterspell. With that in mind, i'm not sure if it'd be worth adding further disruption in the form of duress, particularly over shaman.

[Cross]

Gorilla shaman is one of the best creatures in the game, and is definitely still good in today's meta. I win more games because unassuming players plop down all their moxen on their first turn and I respond second turn turn by playing land mox and eat theirs. Shaman is great against cs because they don't have any early weld targets, and being a control deck they are kind of mana hungry. Same goes for gifts-belcher except even more so. Workshop aggro and stax both utilize moxen, as well as slower combo decks like trix.

Shaman aside, I think the problem with this deck is the ability to throw down significant threats. I play tested this against sensei sensei and I found that I lost to my mana crypt more often than losing to wretch-sword. I don't know if sensei is too fast for this, but I never really saw sensei as a blazing combo deck. Not only could I outdraw this deck, it had no significant clock; even with my graveyard being disrupted via wretch I had plenty of time to tutor for stuff and win. Fish won because wastelands and null rod threw major wrenches in most deck’s game plan, then locked them out of the game with standstill. I think this deck lacks that wrench; while creatures may be the solution to this I think that it needs to either A. get a better clock or B. get more disruption.

[Freelancer]

after reading the thread in the vintage forum yesterday i also thought about somehow incorporating meddling mage into the deck - he helps smooth out the casting costs for use with vial and can be dropped at instant speed as a pseudo-counterspell. With that in mind, i'm not sure if it'd be worth adding further disruption in the form of duress, particularly over shaman.

This does not work the way you think it does...You can't respond to a spell by vialing in a mage and naming that spell since the mage specifically says can't be played if the spell is already on the stack than its already played...

but playing a first-turn Shaman followed by a second turn Ninja is not exactly going to slow the opponent from completing his game plan.

The point off this deck isn't to slow down the opponent but its to speed up your gameplan...I think this is your biggest problem, vial is great for speeding up your gameplan but its not very good at slowing down a opponent...Also first turn shaman second turn ninja is just fine against any slower deck, you now have a turn 2 uncounterable 'phid that actually deals damage. How is that not a strong start?

Lowering the wretch count isn't going to work either, wretch is (as kasuras mentioned for shaman) also a solid outlet for drain mana and you want to see it as often and as early as possible to stop whatever graveyard relient spells your opponent wants to cast...


Let me sum up what you want to do; Lower the creature count, weaken the manabase, add duress (hardly usefull if you want to drop turn 1 vial or use brainstorm) and cut one off the best creatures in this deck? That doesn't sound like improving anything...

[ump]

For clarification on why you cannot Vial in a Meddling Mage in response to a spell, see this thread.  In short, it can be used to counter Madness.  However, Vial is mostly used to ignore colors in casting a creature.  http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20907

I guess I did not do a good enough job of saying why I believe Duress and Meddling Mage is better than Gorilla Shaman.

I think we can agree that the fundamental turn is somewhere near two.  That means that decks are really getting set up to be in an unstoppable position to win by that turn.  Gorilla Shaman is useless in the early game.  It excels in the midgame.  Withered Wretch is useless in the early game.  It excels in the midgame.  Ninja of the Deep Hours is useless in the early game.  It excels in the midgame.  What is going to take this deck from the early game to the midgame?  The strength of 4 Force of Will and 4 Mana Drain?  The utility creatures that don't affect an opponent trying to win now?

Fast combo is designed to blitz through counters.  It has Duress and possibly Xantid Swarm to negate your 8 counters.  Then, its bombs are free to take over the game.  On the other hand, if you are proactive with Duress or Meddling Mage, you can prevent those bombs from being played.  None of the existing creatures are useful in this matchup.  Meddling Mage cannot be dealt with by Duress or Xantid Swarm.

Control is only archetype that Shaman is really good against.  However, there are very few pure control decks left.  Against 3cc, Wretch is the creature that prevents their drawing engine.  Duress can also prevent something like a big decree or get counters.

A control-combo deck like Gifts Belcher runs more counters than you because they have Duress, Mana Drain, and Force of Will.  By running Duress, Meddling Mage, Mana Drain, and Force of Will, you will have more control elements.  Gorilla Shaman will not hurt them if they save their moxes to play a key spell.  If people just may their moxen without really utilizing it for a key spell, then they are just playing poorly and you should not rely on that.

Against welder decks, Wretch can answer Goblin Welder as well as Shaman in many cases.  I will concede that most decks do not run Darksteel Citadel because I haven't been keeping up.  However, I believe that welder decks are sideboarding for the mirror, so you will likely see the hate intended for welders in Lava Dart.  Duress and Meddling Mage are not dead in this matchup as it can stop early card drawing or possibly name Welder.

That leaves aggro-control.  In fish, the card that hurts is Null Rod.  Both Duress and Meddling Mage stop it much cheaper than Gorilla Shaman does.  I don't have time to go over the other matchups and maybe I will discuss it later, but not now.

With Meddling Mage and without Gorilla Shaman, Ninja of the Deep Hours doesn't seem so attractive anymore.  My first thought is Ophidian or even Shadowmage Infiltrator, but it needs testing to figure out which other creatures I would round out the deck with.

Providing a better midgame is pretty useless if you cannot get to the midgame.  Duress and Meddling Mage help bring you to the midgame.

Anyways, this deck has inspired me to perform some testing on my own with some possible changes.

[Hatt0ri Hanz0]

Hey, This is my first Post after about a year of close following of Competitive T1 and Magic, And I figured that this would be an appropriate topic to begin my Posts.

Anyway, I actually had heard of Kowal's NINJA SWORD a few weeks prior at YMG tournament where he simply mentioned his badass deck premise: Ninjas & Swords. Knowing only that and the fact that it ran blue I tried to build a deck that would accommodate those ideas. IT turned out to resemble U/W Fish, but played differently and rather synergistically.

4 Ninja of the Deep hour
4 Sword of Fire/Ice

For the origonal foundation of the Deck i decided to start off w/ a stable U/W manabase

Adding W for StP, Meddling Mage, and Raise the Alarm (teck)

First List:

Counter: 11
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Stifle

Search/Draw: 6
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

Creatures: 7
3 Meddling Mage
4 Cloud of Faries

Ninjas: 4
4 Ninja of the Deep Hour

Swords: 3
3 Sword of fire/ice

Utility: 6
2 Raise The Alarm (Surprisingly Good, alot of synergy with the deck)
1 Mystical Tutor
2 StP
1 Echoing Truth

Mana: 7
5 Mox
1 Petal Petal
1 Black Lotus

Land: 16
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland

I played a bit and tweaked it, Eventually Adding Red for REB/R&R and SB, as well as trying out Mox Monkey Main.

From playing My version, it feels somewhat like fish, but the access to the Power of Mana Drain, and the Synergy of the Deck with the Ninjas and Sword makes it promising.

The ability to Lay early threats w/ Cloud of Fairies as well as being able to fairly consistently have Mana Drain up on Turn 2, makes the deck very reactive and having Access to stifle is often key when left w/ 1 mana open to halt the opponents Game plan.

The synergy between Cloud of Faries and Ninja is obvious but it fits amazingly well in this deck as it allows for dropping a creature to bring in w/ ninja while still enabling Drain mana on Turn 2, and is never useless especially with the Addition of Sword of Fire/Ice which turns any of your creatures into massive threats late game.

The meddling mage has been pretty strong, and especially with ninja, where you can return it and replay it naming more pertinent threats. However as noted White may not be the final Direction for the deck, Red is clearly necessary for Power of sideboard options.

While much different from the intended direction of SB NINJA SWORD, I feel that these decks as foundations could serve to produce what may become a viable deck.

[Matt]

If you're looking for alternative creatures, check out [card]Thalakos Seer[/card]. He draws you a card upon Ninja-ing and death, and shadow means he'll always be able to Ninja.

[Kasuras]

The synergy between Cloud of Faries and Ninja is obvious but it fits amazingly well in this deck as it allows for dropping a creature to bring in w/ ninja while still enabling Drain mana on Turn 2, and is never useless especially with the Addition of Sword of Fire/Ice which turns any of your creatures into massive threats late game.

1U (2), Creature - Faerie 1/1
Flying
When Cloud of Faeries comes into play, if you played it from your hand, untap up to two lands.
Cycling (, Discard this card: Draw a card.)

Sorry, but that's not going to work I think.

The meddling mage has been pretty strong, and especially with ninja, where you can return it and replay it naming more pertinent threats. However as noted White may not be the final Direction for the deck, Red is clearly necessary for Power of sideboard options.

No, you cannot name different cards. The effect wears off if the Mage leaves play.

ump: you didn't answer the question why you would want to remove an outlet for your Mana Drains, a turn 1 drop and maindeck hate against artifacts.

Control is played more than combo, and you forgot the mention artifact based prison where Gorilla is strong too.

What is going to take this deck from the early game to the midgame? The strength of 4 Force of Will and 4 Mana Drain? The utility creatures that don't affect an opponent trying to win now?

It is true that the utility creatures don't stop an opponent from winning now but they do however stop the opponent from doing something the next turn by getting rid of their supplies. I see more Mox, Land, next turn, mana open for Drain turns than that I see turn 1 Mox, Orchard, Oath turns.

Fast combo...

I don't see that much I'm afraid.

[Jacob Orlove]

The synergy between Cloud of Faries and Ninja is obvious but it fits amazingly well in this deck as it allows for dropping a creature to bring in w/ ninja while still enabling Drain mana on Turn 2, and is never useless especially with the Addition of Sword of Fire/Ice which turns any of your creatures into massive threats late game.

1U (2), Creature - Faerie 1/1
Flying
When Cloud of Faeries comes into play, if you played it from your hand, untap up to two lands.
Cycling {2} ({2}, Discard this card: Draw a card.)

Sorry, but that's not going to work I think.

What do you mean. Turn 2, you play cloud and untap your lands, thus leaving drain mana up. Then you can ninja it back to your hand the next turn. It's not like he suggested vialing out cloud.

The meddling mage has been pretty strong, and especially with ninja, where you can return it and replay it naming more pertinent threats. However as noted White may not be the final Direction for the deck, Red is clearly necessary for Power of sideboard options.

No, you cannot name different cards. The effect wears off if the Mage leaves play.

You can certainly name different cards. He never suggested that it would accumulate card names, but after you drop a sword, you may no longer need a mage naming Welder, for example.

[Vegeta2711]

I think we can agree that the fundamental turn is somewhere near two. That means that decks are really getting set up to be in an unstoppable position to win by that turn.

You guys fail. Only combo and god hands will possibly be in an 'unstoppable' position turn two. And even combo hs problems against counters early in the game traditionally.

Shaman is useless in the early game. It excels in the midgame. Withered Wretch is useless in the early game. It excels in the midgame. Ninja of the Deep Hours is useless in the early game. It excels in the midgame. What is going to take this deck from the early game to the midgame? The strength of 4 Force of Will and 4 Mana Drain?

4 Force and 4 Drain will generally give you as much protection for the first two turns as the average aggro-control deck will. If you played Fish, you could drop Null Rod + FoW turn 2 or Spiketail Hatchling / Meddling Mage + FoW. The same concept applies here, but instead it's FoW + Drain on turn 2.

The second misconception is that Shaman is somehow bad early game, he isn't. He's slow, but he's certainly capable of disruption on turn 2. Do you see the SoLoMoxen in the deck? It isn't unreasonable to go something like this:
Turn 1 Land, Mox, Aether Vial, Brainstorm
Turn 2 Land, Set counter to 1, pass the turn. This leaves Drain mana open and allows you to EOT drop Shaman and eat moxen if you have mana left.

If your opponent for some reason dropped 2 moxen or something and your confident in your position, you can easily skip ahead and drop Shaman on your turn and eat them right then.

Adding white for Meddling Mage loses Shaman and Pillar / Vandals from the board, which is huge. Past that, having tried Shaman in a few decks, I can safely say he's a very effective utility goober. Bleh, I forgot the rest of what I was going to write.

[MrZuccinniHead]

You keep stating that you have no drain oulets without Shaman, Kasuras, but SOFIA and Withered Wretch are definitely still drain outlets...

[ump]

ump: you didn't answer the question why you would want to remove an outlet for your Mana Drains, a turn 1 drop and maindeck hate against artifacts.

As mentioned by MrZuccinniHead, there are still other outlets.  In addition to the ones he mentioned, there is hard-casting Ninja, but obviously, the most important is Sword of Fire and Ice.  As far as artifact-hate is concerned, why do you want to hate artifacts when you can hate anything with Meddling Mage and Duress.

You guys fail. Only combo and god hands will possibly be in an 'unstoppable' position turn two. And even combo hs problems against counters early in the game traditionally.

I don't understand the first part of the statement, but maybe "unstoppable" is the wrong choice of words.  What I mean is that Oath can play Oath, Dragon can have an active Bazaar with an Animate in hand, Combo can play a draw seven all with Force of Will backup or removed your counter with Duress.  What I was trying to say is that other decks should be well on their way to winning and if all you have done is Shaman and have the mana for Mana Drain, you really haven't tried to stop the opponent from winning.  Duress and Meddling Mage try to say that it will take them longer to try to win.

The second misconception is that Shaman is somehow bad early game, he isn't. He's slow, but he's certainly capable of disruption on turn 2. Do you see the SoLoMoxen in the deck? It isn't unreasonable to go something like this:
Turn 1 Land, Mox, Aether Vial, Brainstorm
Turn 2 Land, Set counter to 1, pass the turn. This leaves Drain mana open and allows you to EOT drop Shaman and eat moxen if you have mana left.

I could also say:
Turn 1 Land, Duress, Mox, Aether Vial
Turn 2 Land, Mana Drain or Meddling Mage
Turn 3 Sword or Vial Meddling Mage
Shaman is eating a mox after they already used the acceleration to cast something good.  Duress is taking that good thing out of their hands before they can use it.  Mage can be used to stop the next best thing in their hand.  Shaman eating a mox is not exactly a time walk like Fish wasting a land or casting a Spiketail Hatchling because they can hold back the mox until needed.

Adding white for Meddling Mage loses Shaman and Pillar / Vandals from the board, which is huge.

First, Duress and Meddling Mage are more hate than Pillar.  Second, who said you have to remove red completely.  AEther Vial helps smooth out bad mana when cast creatures.  Next, you can start running other sources like City of Brass.

[Kowal]

Just a couple quick points:

Vandals isn't as important with the absence of Workshop decks, but he's still the best option against null rod aggro.

Pillar is absolutely essential to the combo matchup.  Duress isn't as good for preventing people from going off, and Meddling Mage is not a play you can expect on turn one with regularity whereas Pillar is.

Regarding this fundamental turn crap:

Control Slaver also has a 1/1 guy with a good ability and Mana Drain open on turn two.  But obviously that deck is too slow for this format, or it would win something every now and then.

[ump]

Pillar is absolutely essential to the combo matchup.  Duress isn't as good for preventing people from going off, and Meddling Mage is not a play you can expect on turn one with regularity whereas Pillar is.

I am not saying that you should not run Pillar.  I am just trying to justify why I believe Gorilla Shaman is not that useful.  I explained earlier that it is possible to splash for both red and white especially if white is only splashed for Meddling Mage.

Regarding this fundamental turn crap:

Control Slaver also has a 1/1 guy with a good ability and Mana Drain open on turn two. But obviously that deck is too slow for this format, or it would win something every now and then.

I am just trying to say that Welder is not the only threat out there.  There are a variety of other threats and Meddling Mage has the ability to deal with more threats than Gorilla Shaman.  Fish was effective because it went all in on the mana denial gameplan.  You need to have early threats that your opponent would care about such as Duress or Meddling Mage.

[Kowal]

I don't think you're appreciating the difference between mana denial and broken denial.

If someone spits a good chunk of their hand out turn one, you need to either do the same, or remove some of their board commitment.  Gorilla Shaman helps prevent losing to expansion heavy hands you would expect to see from Control Slaver, Sensei, or combo decks.

[ump]

I don't think you're appreciating the difference between mana denial and broken denial.

Very well.  I will withhold further suggestions until I actually get a chance to try out your version, make changes to incorporate Meddling Mage and probably Duress, and then try out my version.  Unfortunately, this will take me a lot of time.  I was merely trying to use some testing I already had with Gorilla Shaman where I came to the conclusion that it was really ineffective against the variety of decks you would expect to see.  This is  because their threats were already played and now I need to find an answer rather than waste time removing some of their board.

[That0neguy]

Quick question about the deck why are you not running clamp it seems like it would be awsome in the deck.

Another idea would be to go U/r/w I personally never really liked the wretches finding them hard to cast sometimes and black is not adding much to the deck (wretch+consult possibly duress), while white could add swords to plowshares/disenchant mage balance(not sure you would want to run this but its a thought) and possibly other effeicent cretures if you wanted.

[Freelancer]

Actually in my testing most people will play there moxen immediatley turn 1 if you go land-vial-go. This means that on your second turn you have mana drain up and a instant speed gorilla shaman that gets to eat a mox or two (depending on available mana/moxen). Thats a pretty strong opening in my book.

The thing that I find strange is that you added a 2 mana disruption creature (meddling mage) and removed a 1 mana disruption creature because the metagame is to fast. And than tried to compensate with adding duress again. (wich clogs up your 1 mana slot)


It might be a idea to cut wretch and black completely (Yes I am aware that wretch is quite important for this decks game plan, but follow me for a second) and add 4x standstill and some man-lands as additional draw power. This does however mean that brainstorm is a bit suboptimal, but the idea off turn 1 man-land vial turn 2 standstill is totally amazing. Some how I feel the need to get that standstill (and possibly man-lands) in here.

In the initial version in the vintage forum there is a single strip mine listed but no wastelands (only in the sideboard). This seems rather sub-optimal in that a single strip isn't going to do much good if you have no other mana denial to back it up. And if it is just to take out that library (bazaar-workshop etc.) than it seems a bit situational as a 1-off. Any explanations?

[Kowal]

Regarding black:
Withered Wretch pretty much IS the deck.  You can try it if you want, but as I said in the Vintage thread, the deck sort of got born from watching PTW get his ass violated when he played normal fish due to his inability to handle random broken crap like Will, Welds, and Animates without boarding in really situational crap or banking on a subpar dork like Prodigy.

Regarding strips:
Originally the list had zero strips.  However, Strip Mine is a very effective card for control decks, as I discovered playing a Control Slaver list very similar to ELD's.  Wasteland however denied me much needed colored mana and was usually incapable of killing any relevant lands anyway.  Considering my most common opponents in New England are Control Slaver (3-6 basics), Oath (3-6 basics), and Sensei (4-6 basics) I obviously have little interest in having Wasteland outside of the Bazaar matchup.

[einlanzer625]

is there a way this deck could be done budget style?? a friend of mine wants to play it and doesnt have/have access to power.

[Kowal]

is there a way this deck could be done budget style?? a friend of mine wants to play it and doesnt have/have access to power.

No.

[einlanzer625]

is there a way this deck could be done budget style?? a friend of mine wants to play it and doesnt have/have access to power.

No.

kthanks

[Freelancer]

Yes kowal is right, I tested both a version with black and a version with standstill (without black) and I really missed the graveyard removal aspect (even though it sits dead in my hand from time to time). Ah well couldn't resist to atleast trie it.

Wasteland however denied me much needed colored mana and was usually incapable of killing any relevant lands anyway.

I don't get the second part about not being able to kill any relevant lands, in my mind the most dangerous lands are non-basic.

Lets see or I get this; You utilize strip mine as a strategic tool, like denying somebody UU for mana drain. Right? Because if that is what you mean than you can forget the comment I made about 'not being able to kill relevant lands'.


What do you think is the greates problem ninja sword struggles with?

[nataz]

What do you think is the greates problem ninja sword struggles with?

Standard fall back draw. Swords is amazing, but if you have it out, and swinging you are wining. The lone BS are kinda anemic. Sometimes the Ninja's will save you, but sometimes they just dont show up. 

[Ufactor]

Two Questions:

1) Can you realistically replace Withered Wretch with Samurai of the Pale Curtain?  This would allow you to cut black (adding white for Samurai and Pikula) without missing the graveyard hate.

2)Why is SoF&I>>>>>Skullclamp?

[Klep]

1) Can you realistically replace Withered Wretch with Samurai of the Pale Curtain?  This would allow you to cut black (adding white for Samurai and Pikula) without missing the graveyard hate.

You also lose a very powerful tutor and the Edicts in the sideboard, which are a great anti-Oath tool.   In addition, SotPC can't do anything about cards that are already in the graveyard, whereas Wretch can.  I really can't imagine this change being worth it, particularly since you'd have to cut something else to make room for the Mages.

2)Why is SoF&I>>>>>Skullclamp?

Because it doesn't kill your win conditions, doesn't do as much damage, doesn't provide protection from 2 of the most common colors in this format, and it can't do damage to random utility creatures you want dead.  Make no mistake, in Type 1 Skullclamp is purely a combo card.

[Zeylon]

Kowal, I do want to talk to you about Ninja Swords Oath matchup and using Drake.

To me, it seems that Drake may be useful, but only if the creature you steal can block their other oathed creature infinately and not die, ie. they play Akorma and Spirit of the Night and either get out Akorma first or overextend and Oath out both cards. Other wise, their next oathed up creature will trade with the creature you stole and both get shuffled back into their library (unless you also topdeck Withered Wretch with the drake but that's asking a lot) with blessing you're left back at square one only they now have a 3/3 flyer as well. Post sideboard, if they side out one of the two creatures for something else, you're screwed. Even if you successfully steal Akorma, you can still never attack with it or it will get double blocked by Drake and something else and wind up in their graveyard. I would guess Kowal's Oath match is absolutely terrible. And Oath is common enough that it should be a must do atleast decent against type deck.

So unless I'm missing something, Drake is rarely the best option and shouldn't be a maindeck card.

UMP, You're wrong about gorilla shaman not being great in the meta. But Meddling Mage is probably even better if you design your deck well. Mage can hate out a lot of decks by naming their key card. The real key to the deck is what the rest of the cards are. You do lose a lot of great red hate but White packs a lot of great sideboard cards as well. I personally dislike Ninja's Swords Gilded Drakes and Old Mans. Also Ninja Swords islacking in the card drawing department and it's counterbase isn't too strong. It's a pretty good deck but I think it could use some tweaking to add more card drawing and countermagic. If you can shore up those aspects of the deck, I could see it becoming quite powerful.


You may want to check out this thread...

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=22784.0

It's not meant to be a vial based deck. But it has a very solid counterbase that works extremely well. And it has some good card drawers too if you can play some evasive creatures.

[Luiggi]

Re: Gilded Drake and Akroma: your opponent won't be able to double-block with Gilded Drake + Spirit of the Night/Ancient Hydra (the two most common creatures that accompany Akroma in the Oath creature-suite) because of Akroma's pro-Red and pro-Black, meaning that on your first attack you'll kill the Gilded Drake you gave them and trample over for 3 damage. Not a bad deal...

If they put Akroma into play with their first Oath activation then they're pretty much screwed, since by stealing it with Drake you can trump any other creature in their deck. If they're not running something like StP to remove the Akroma from the game you should have sealed up the game right there.

In Games 2 and 3 a stolen Akroma can still trump any other creature they play, since even if they Oath up a Pristine/Iridiscent Angel you can trample over for some damage. Akroma also handily beats Iridiscent Angel in a damage race, and ditto for Pristine Angel if they run out of instants to make it untap and block Akroma.

EDIT: something I forgot to add is that even if they double-block in Games 2 and 3 with Gilded Drake and Pristine/Iridiscent Angel, Akroma has first strike, so you can kill the Gilded Drake before it assigns its damage, and thus Akroma will survive.

Being able to attack and block with her, because of her Vigilance, is also really nice, since you can swing for 6 each turn and still prevent them from swinging with their Spirit of the Night or Ancient Hydra.

All this is assuming you hold your Drake to steal their Akroma and not something like Spirit of the Night, since in that case they can Oath out Akroma and own you, .

Luiggi