Gifts Ungiven Belcher...Modifcations and Improvements

[darkchild]

Took this deck to a tournament yesterday and went 4 - 2 with it. Lost a game due to a play error on my part and the other to FISH! Seriously, if Fish resolve null rod turn 2 back games with force or Mis D back up, there is very little chance for me to pull out the win (having 1 chain of vapor is not an easy thing to draw into). The changes which i propose is:

+ 3 old man of the sea in the sb

- 2 rushing river and 1 tormod crypt

i want to add in an additonal dart but just cant find the space for that. And for the rushing river, i feel that oath players are most probably likely to bring in pristine and iridentcent angel against you anyway and the rushing rivers are more likely useless against them. Kowal did not meet any Fish decks on his way to victory and I would like some comments from him as well as others what they think of their matchup against fish.

[TimeWizzle]

I have been playing this deck (closer to Andy's build in Syracuse) for a while now and have found it to be really resilient, a great deck.  I do have a few suggestions/questions for those who have played it more than me. 
Crucible of worlds?  you are already running slaver/darksteel citadel, it would be an alternative to pentavus for slaver recursion.  it also can provide 'oops, i win' scenarios with strip mine.  Worst case, it pitches to thirst or weld/tinker it into something.
Mind twist?  I always love dusting off old classics, and draining into a big twist is good times.  Since this isn't the fastest deck in the world, eating someone's hand will usually buy more than enough time.
Rebuild/hurkyl's recall?  Seems like it may be better than echoing truth since most of the hosers are artifacts, and can be used for mana acceleration (e.g. replaying moxes). 
Mox Monkey?  eats those annoying chalices, provides savage monkey beats, drain mana sink, that funky monkey does it all.

[Luiggi]

While Crucible allows for easier infinite Slaver recursion, that's only if you also have the Citadel handy, and ditto for the Strip Mine lock. Pentavus is excellent vs. random aggro decks, and by just Welding a Pentavite a turn and swinging with the Pentavus you can do 15 damage and get off 5 Slaver activations, which should be more than enough vs. most decks. I run Crucible in my CS build, but I believe CS has more slots to play around with than SSB.

Pentavus is more all-purpose, being good at beating down and setting up Slaver recursion, while Crucible won't do anything vs. random aggro, or if you need to win a game in a hurry.

Just my two cents.

Luiggi

[Kowal]

Luiggi is dead on.

In terms of budget aggro packing null rods, I did play against null rod sligh and null rod zoo.  Both of which I treat exactly like fish:  They have one spell in the whole deck I'm worried about, usually not more than 3 slots.  If I stop that spell, I should win the game.

When I sideboard for Fish, I usually board in Rack and Ruin as a null rod solution.  It just so happens to kill Factories sometimes too.

[245trioxin]

i was thinking about mabey putting a platinum angel in there for random aggro decks. like, my friend just made a deck (forgot the name), but it has mox monkeys , chains, null rods, artifact mutation, ... it basicly kills or shuts down all of your artifacts and kills you with creatures. so if you could weld in or tinker in a platinum to live i think it would help alot. and worst case scenario if you dont need it you can just ditch it to TFK
   

[Necrologia]

Even with Null Rod in play, Pentavus is a 5/5 beater. That's generally large enough to just overpower decks running Null Rod. Besides, if the opponent is really runing all that artifact removal main, how safe is platinum going to make you feel? The fact that it pitches to TFK is also a pretty poor reason to run a card, akin to running blue cards to pitch to force. Sure, it happens but that's certainly not the main reason to run them.

One of the reasons this deck has an advantage against Slaver is that it has less expensive artifacts to clutter up its draws. Adding Platty reduces that advantage, and Pentavus is simply more versatile, hence it gets the nod.

If you're really having that much trouble with aggro, don't forget that Goblin Charbelcher can target creatures too, it's not just for KOing players. Little things like that can make a difference over enough games.

[245trioxin]

i think this deck needs a little bit more control so i added some things.
tell me what you think:

 GiFtS UnGiVeN BeLcHeR

Land- 17
X1 tolorian academy
X1 stripmine
X3 wasteland
X4 volcanic island
X3 underground sea
X2 polluted delta
X2 flooded strand
X1 library of Alexandria

Creatures- 4
X2 goblin welder
X1 platinum angel
X1 pentavus

Other spells- 39
X1 mindslaver
X1 black lotus
X1 ancestral recall
X1 mox jet
X1 mox pearl
X1 mox emerald
X1 mox ruby
X1 mox sapphire
X4 mana drain
X4 force of will
X1 crucible of worlds
X1 mystical tutor
X1 timewalk
X1 yawgmoths will
X1 demonic tutor
X1 fact or fiction
X1 goblin charbelcher
X1 mana severance
X2 gifts ungiven
X1 tinker
X1 Recoup
X4 thirst for knowledge
X1 mana crypt
X1 sol ring
X1 mana vault
X1 chain of vapor
X1 mind twist
X1 lotus petal
X1 duress

i basiclly added the crucible , a mind twist, 3 wastelands, 1 stripmine,a platinum, and i took out the brain storms (dont know if that was a good move or not?) it seems to play pretty solid. it usually draws what it need when it needs it.   

[Luiggi]

I'm not sure I speak for everyone, but I think pulling the Brainstorms is a "Bad Idea (tm)". It's just too good with your fetchlands to not run, and it smoothes out your mana, something this deck needs a lot of.

Luiggi

[Outlaw]

Removing the brainstorms takes away from consistancy, they allow you to get rid of cards that you dont want to see and allow you to find gassy stuff.  The random 1 duress and 1 mindtwist isn't very stellar at all, no basic islands and waste effects isnt very smart at all.  The deck doesnt want to run like Keeper but rather a deck that controls the deck then combos off, you want to build up resources and then when a window opens you win. 

[245trioxin]

that was one of the main reasons i didnt want to take out the brainstorms , but luckily i havnt actually made this deck yet and still have the orginal version, by the way does anybody know why on Kowal's  list he uses one random cidatel

[Klep]

First off, start using proper punctuation and grammer and spell peoples' names right.  If you don't, no one will ever take what you say seriously.

Secondly, Kowal has the lone Citadel for the same reasons Rich Shay ran it in Control Slaver.  It's a destruction-proof weldable artifact.  The reason only 1 is run is because you don't want to mess up your manabase, and because Gifts can fetch it when it's needed.

Also, cutting Brainstorms from this deck is an abysmally bad idea.  There's a reason almost every control and combo deck in the format plays the card, and it isn't because they needed to use up space.

[Outlaw]

that was one of the main reasons i didnt want to take out the brainstorms , but luckily i havnt actually made this deck yet and still have the orginal version, by the way does anybody know why on khawls list he uses one random cidatel

He also said that he has the one citadel for thirsting reasons, we both agreed that the artifact count was low to reliably pitch to thirst.

[alban]

IF you'd take out the brainstorms (which is indeed a bad idea), why play not, instead of a twist, a second duress?
this is, after all, a combo deck, with some control elements in it, not the other way around 

[Disburden]

Actually, if you listened to BrassMan and Kowal since the decks beginning on TMD you would understand that SSB is indeed a control deck by the way you should play it, then it wins with a combo finish. You have it all backwards.

[alban]

oops....You're totally right 
didn't read that very carefully, sorry