[Budget] U/G Oath - Finalizing the MD, and building a SB vs. my local meta

[Shade]

Okay, so I found a place about 30 minutes from where I live that holds T1 tourneys every two weeks or so.  I checked out the local decks, and noticed what appeared to be a lot of scrubby aggro decks (mono-red sligh, and what appeared to be mono-green stompy), a (apparently) powerless mono-blue control deck, a mono-black discard deck, and a fully-powered Control Slaver.  Obviously, my biggest concerns are the Slaver and blue control decks, as I should be able to roll the aggro decks.

So, basically, how should I modify my MD and put in a SB to help combat this particular meta?  Here's the deck:

ENGINE (6):
2 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

BEATS (2):
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

DRAW/SEARCH (16):
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Intuition

DISRUPTION (12):
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak

MANA (24):
2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
10 Island
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

The MD feels pretty solid, but I'm wondering, can it be made better?  Is there any reason to add 3 more Trops?  Should I try out a single Boseiju?  How about Nevy's Disks?  Does Mana Drain make this deck so much awesomely better that I HAVE to add it to have a chance?  And, if so, do I cut the Leaks or the vanilla Counterspells?

[yankeedave]

Hi Shade,

I have a teammate who plays a lot of Oath, so I know how scary it can be when it is staring you down. Here are some suggestions of ideas he has used to help him.

I would think that you would play at least 4 copies of Forbidden Orchard, as you cannot tutor for them and they can easily be eaten by Wastelands, also you might want some basic forests in there, for the same reason.

Have you thought about a couple of Cunning Wish rather than using 4 Intuition, maybe 2 and 2? Then you could have access to extra cards such as Naturalise, Stifle, and Hurkyll's Recall which don't have a place maindeck.

If you are afraid of MonoU, how about splashing black for Duress and tutors? Just a few thoughts to be helping you on your way...

[Luiggi]

Just to echo what yankeedave said, I don't like 4 Intuitions in an unpowered build of Oath, just because without Mana Drains, moxes and such it's a lot harder to get Intuition-->AK up and running. I think 3 Intuition is probably the most you'd want to run, and even so I think I'd consider adding some acceleration to the deck along the lines of Sol Ring, Mox Diamond and maybe even Lotus Petal.

As for your creature-set, you might want to consider Ancient Hydra in the SotN slot, just because it's really really good vs. Slaver, since it eats their Welders alive. It's also good. vs. aggro decks and anything with little guys. I think Akroma and Ancient Hydra are a good way to go, especially if you're afraid of Slaver like you said.

Are you sure you need the 2nd Blessing in the deck? Unless there are lots of Tormod's Crypts/Phyrexian Furnaces in your area I don't think it's necessary, and it frees up another slot for something useful.

Definitely add the two remaining Orchards, as yankeedave said. While I realize you're running a budget version of the deck, Orchard is basically the card that makes Oath viable in Vintage these days.

Anyway, hope this helps.

Luiggi

[Shade]

Oops, I reversed the number of Strands and Orchards.  Should definitely be 4 Orchards.

[yankeedave]

Happens to all of us once in a while, but I still stick to what I said about basic forests. I have losing all my sources of one colour just because someone gets lucky with his Wastelands. (You know who you are!)

[Shade]

How many basic Forests should I run?  Should I just run more Trops, since they're fetchable?

As for acceleration, should Chrome Mox find a spot, along with Ring, Diamond, and Petal?

I like the idea of a couple Wishes in place of Intuitions.  Is 2 Intuitions enough?

What do I run MD to take care of Platinum Angel?

What should I run in the side?  Naturalize is pretty obvious, along with Platinum/Pristine Angel, and Hydra.  How about Ground Seal?

[Luiggi]

I would run more Tropical Islands, rather than Forests. Cutting a few Islands for 2 more Trops wouldn't be too bad, I don't think. At most run 1 Forest, but not more, since you've also got Orchards for Green Mana.

Chrome Mox I don't like, since it loses us a spell. You're running 24 lands, so losing a land to play a Mox Diamond isn't so tragic, but you never want to lose a spell for Chrome's imprint.

If you run 2 Cunning Wishes you don't need a maindeck answer to Platinum Angel, since you can just Wish for a bounce spell, Naturalize, etc. I would cut 1 Blessing and 1 Intuition for 2 Cunning Wish, leaving you with 3 Intuitions, since they can randomly search out 3 Oaths if you need one in a hurry.

As for SB options, Tormod's Crypt is really good vs. Slaver, though they have a harder time getting rid of Ground Seal. The choice is yours, really, but since you're unpowered you want a fast answer to their threats, so Crypt gets the nod in my book.

Luiggi

[Shade]

Is one Blessing really enough in an unpowered Oath?  What does everyone think about Boseiju?

Here is my revised deck, w/SB added:

ENGINE (5):
1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

BEATS (2):
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

DRAW/SEARCH (17):
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
4 Impulse
3 Intuition

DISRUPTION (12):
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak

MANA (24):
2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Forest
9 Island
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD (15):
1 Ancient Hydra
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
4 Naturalize
4 Null Rod
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel

I opted for Seal over Crypt due to interactivity w/Null Rod.  I also didn't add Ring, Diamond, or Petal for the same reason.  Naturalize takes care of Platy and other dangerous artifacts, and the creature assortment of Angels and Hydra are in the SB for specific matchups.

[Luiggi]

Why wouldn't 1 Blessing be enough in an unpowered Oath? I don't think it really matters if you have Power or no when it comes down to deciding how many Blessings to put in, .

The decklist seems pretty solid, though I'd still favor Ancient Hydra or Triskelion over Spirit of the Night in the maindeck. But then again I guess it's a matter of personal preference.

Luiggi

[JamesPr]

Are you allowed any number of proxies?  If you are take advantage of it.

I've never had trouble with just one Tropical Island.  Usually I search for it with a Flooded Strand or drop a Forbidden Orchard for green mana.

I'd try out a Ancient Hydra in your metagame, it's a very flexible creature even though it's slow.  I haven't really tested Nevinyrral's Disk in my Oath.  It seems like it would be more effective with maindeck Darksteel Colossus for the indestructabliity clause.  You typically only play Darksteel Colossus in a welderless metagame, which you don't have if Control Slaver is there.  In addition, you probably want Mana Drains if you want to play Nevinyrral's Disk anyway.

I definitely agree with adding some form of acceleration in your deck.  Part of the reason Oath is so great is that you can sometimes steal games by going Mox - Forbidden Orchard first turn and laying an Oath.

Some choices you have for acceleration are

Mox Diamond
Lotus Petal
Sol Ring
Chrome Mox (This would be a maybe slot. The acceleration is nice, but losing a card hurts.  Still the ability to combo off first turn might override the need for the card.  I'd test this out.)

The matchup I'd worry about most is the Control Slaver one.  You should roll over Sligh, Mono Black, and Stompy.  Your matchup with Mono Blue depends on what kill they use.  If it's a Morpling kill then you should roll over them. 

Against Control Slaver adding red definitely helps.  It allows you to have access to Rack and Ruin and Red Elemental Blast.  Both of which are strong in the Slaver matchup.

[TheAlpha]

Is one Blessing really enough in an unpowered Oath? What does everyone think about Boseiju?

One Blessing is enough in unpowered Oath. I'm playing Oath for quite some time now and I lost only one game because of one Blessing. I don't think Boseiju should be in this deck. It's slow, non-basic, doesn't produce U and it's only good for resolving Intuitions.

Your deck seems to have quite a busy second turn, take a look at this mana curve:
CC1: 4
CC2: 21
CC3: 5
CC>3: 6

Your sideboard is also loaded with CC2 cards, I think you should take a look at this. I also think you should reconsider cutting the acceleration, the deck needs it. Without the mana artifacts, you can play an Oath with counter backup turn 4 when you don't have a FoW, this is too slow. The Intuitions and Cunning Wishes are also quite bad if you get actual result in your fourth turn (so Mana Drain is indeed very good and they make your deck really a lot better).

One thing I would change is -1 naturalize +1 bounce spell. The number of Meddling Mages is rising quite hard and you have no way of removing them except for the sideboard Hydra. Hardcasting BBB and WWW creatures doesn't make you happy.

Some questions:
-Why do you play one forest? It doesn't produce U, it's not fetchable and it gives you random hands.
-What do you usually board out? It seems like it is hard to find space for something like 3 Seals and 4 Rods from the board.
-Do you get away with 1 Trop + 1 Forest post board when you have to cast Oaths, Naturalizes and Ground Seals?

[Dante]

Having played against Oath plenty and if I were in your shoes, here are my observations and what I would test out:

- your meta as described is mono-blue, mono-red, mono-black, and control slaver (which runs at least 4 basic islands).  Wasteland doesn't seem so hot here, I would drastically cut back on the number of strips.

- What decks are you bringing in Null Rod against?  Trying to play mana denial and control, unpowered, is a recipe for disaster.  Pick a strategy (i.e. get oath, win) and stick to it.  Null Rod in the side seems bad, what do you bring it in against?  If it's the control slaver, you need a better strategy than that - REB and Ground Seal will actually help you win.

- In your latest list, the only cunning wish target you have is Naturalize.  Either add more wish targets or just maindeck the naturalizes and save the 2U casting cost on the Wish.

- Like the poster above said, 1 basic forest is useless, because without any way of fetching it, you can't rely on seeing it.

- You need to use the mana acceleration available, you should add sol ring and lotus petal, no doubt.

- Based on your mono-colored aggro metagame (except for 1-2 decks), keep the spirit of the night maindeck.  Racing those aggro decks seems key.  Leave the Hydra in the board.

- To be honest, without Drains or artifact acceleration, the Intuition/AK engine isn't so hot.  Turn 3 intuition for turn 4 AK for 3 cards means vs any [good] aggro deck (if you don't already have oath out), you're dead.  Unless you have oath out, then it doesn't matter.

- You might want to consider an extra color or two for black and/or red.  Black gives you 1-2 tutors to find your oath (replacing Inuitions) vs the Mono-colored aggro decks as well as Skeletal Scrying.  Turn 4 Skeletal scrying gets you the same number of cards (3) as turn 3 Intuition/turn 4 AK.  Plus it lets you use it sooner if you need a quick hit (i.e. turn 3 for 2 cards).  You can also think about Duress, good vs both mono-blue and control slaver.  By adding red, you get Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast, lava dart, and Rack and Ruin (if you need it).  REB is awesome against both decks you're worried about (Mono-blue and control slaver).  You have the mana base room to add both, 9 basic Islands is excessive and the strips seem useless.


I would try this for a mana base

4 Orchard
4 Fetchland
2 Tropical Island
2 volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Strip Mine
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
5 Islands
2 open slots (duals, mox diamond)
24 mana sources

and a maindeck like this

1 Akroma
1 Spirit of the Night
1 Blessing
4 Oath

4 Force
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Leak

4 Brainstorm
2 Impulse
4 Skeletal Scrying
2 Cunning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor

4 open slots (25th mana source, Duress, Vampiric Tutor, Misdirection, DAZE!, lava dart)

with a sideboard of:

1 Ancient Hydra
3 Ground Seal
3 REB/Pyroblast
1 Lava Dart
1 Naturalize
6 open slots

you should consider tuning the counters and testing MisD and Daze as they both come online turn 1 and can help protect an Oath the turn you cast it.

If you find yourself losing to the rush of weenie aggro decks, you could add a Pyroclasm or two to help buy time to bring your Oaths online.

I think altering the deck in this manner will help you drastically in the unpowered Mono-blue and Control slaver matchups and still be strong against the aggro decks.

Bill

[Green Knight]

- You need to use the mana acceleration available, you should add sol ring and lotus petal, no doubt.  Even Elvish spirit Guides would give you a good boost and should be considered.

Dante offers sound advise, one thing though. ESG in Oath is bad, you do not want to Oath this guy up .

[Dante]

- You need to use the mana acceleration available, you should add sol ring and lotus petal, no doubt.  Even Elvish spirit Guides would give you a good boost and should be considered.

Dante offers sound advise, one thing though. ESG in Oath is bad, you do not want to Oath this guy up .

Yah, I forget he's a creature sometime and not just a 1-time shot of Green mana.  I'll edit my old post.

[Shade]

Some good suggestions in here.  I'll have to tweak the deck a bit.

How should I arrange the deck if I'm able to get a playset of Drains?

[Anusien]

I'd just straight out cut Mana Leak for Mana Drains if you get the playset.  They'll power out enough Inution->AKs to be worth it, as well as other ridiculous plays.  There's a trend in some Oath builds to have maindeck Chalice and then to use Thirst for Knowledge instead of Impulse.  Chalice for 1 is very good against Mono Red and probably Stompy as well, although it depends on your list.  This will also supercharge the broken sort of plays you can do with Mana Drain.

Do you get any proxies?  This makes a difference.

Also, I agree with Ancient Hydra main (freeing up a board slot).  Oathing up any sort of fat should cause you to roll the random aggro decks, especially if you can protect it.  The real worry is the Control Slaver deck, and Ancient Hydra eats Welders for breakfast, as well as giving you an out against Pentavus and Platinum Angel.

I don't think Null Rod will be a consistent problem enough for you to not run, at the least, Sol Ring and Lotus Petal, both of which power some nuts stuff: Sol Ring is an Intuition/Thirst on turn 2, and Lotus Petal will help you Oath on turn 1.  If you board in the Null Rod, it will hurt someone else worse than you.  I also agree with the Wish comments; if you really want to, put some sort of bounce in the board, as well as probably BEB and Misdirection as 1 ofs to Wish out.  Stifle might help too.  I'd try to work more Tropicals into the manabase if you can, something more like this:

No need for the basic forest since you can't fetch it
It's been said to cut the Wasteland number, and you could probably do that, but there's not a terribly compelling reason to (you have enough colored sources), and you might need them
4 Forbidden Orchard
9 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

Then if you really get tricksy, you can change some Islands into Underground Seas to splash for Duress and Demonic Tutor or other goodies, or Red for REB and assorted cards.

Then your sideboard can look something like this:

1 Echoing Truth
1 Misdirection
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Lava Dart
3 Null Rod/Damping Matrix (if you can Drain it out, it's nuts versus CS)
1 Platinum Angel (to come in for Hydra when you need it)
5 Open Slots

[Dante]

I'd just straight out cut Mana Leak for Mana Drains if you get the playset....
Do you get any proxies?  This makes a difference.

Yah, I made all my suggestions assuming that you didn't run the P9 or Drains because you didn't have them and there were no proxies (otherwise you'd want them). 

It's been said to cut the Wasteland number, and you could probably do that, but there's not a terribly compelling reason to (you have enough colored sources), and you might need them

There is a compelling reason - I believe he needs to splash more colors to beat the decks he's worried about (Mono-blue and Control Slaver).  In addition, he should work in as much acceleration as he can, which includes Lotus Petal, Sol Ring, and probably mox diamond.  Given that he has no power himself, a couple of wastes, while possibly setting the opponent back, will set him back even further.

As for the Hydra, while he wants to improve the control slaver matchup, don't forget the rest of the field seems to be weenie aggro.  While Hydra might seem good to kill them, just winning is better.  Assuming turns 1-2 they drop weenies and you drop/find and drop Oath, with Akroma and Sotn, you can just kill them, instead of spending turns putzing around killling their Weenies with Hydra (which may give them time to rush him and/or burn him out).

[Shade]

Okay, here's the deal.  I recently got my hands on a Lotus and Recall, but am leaning toward trading the Recall for a set of Drains.  If I do this, how will that change things?  Should I run Counterspell or Mana Leak?  I like the lack of restriction involved with a vanilla Counterspell, but Leak is easier to cast off Drain mana.

Oh, and btw, there are no proxies allowed that I know of in my meta.

[Ufactor]

Okay, here's the deal.  I recently got my hands on a Lotus and Recall, but am leaning toward trading the Recall for a set of Drains.

Don't do it.  This would be akin to someone offering you three lexus-es for your house, when you have a honda civic sitting in your driveway.  Sure the lexuses are all nice and hooked up, but the civic runs fine and the trade will actually leave you with no place to live.

Mana Drains are not essential to playing Oath, you said yourself that there's a limitation to how well you can use the drain mana.  You also know that their easily 1/4 the investment (or less) of what Ancestral Recall is, so picking one up on the fly at a convention should be alot easier than getting a Recall again.

Finally, Counterspell vs. Drain isn't a painful switch, but they don't call Ancestral Recall the best card in the game for nothing.


...with that said, PM me to get 4 Drains PLUS a Force of Will and an UL Volcanic Island...a limited time offer!!!

[Shade]

Okay, let's just assume that I stick with an unpowered version of the deck, but get a set of Drains.  Here's what I'm thinking, after considering some of these suggestions:

ENGINE (5):
1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

BEATS (2):
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

DRAW/SEARCH (17):
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Cunning Wish
4 Impulse
4 Intuition

DISRUPTION (12):
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

MANA (24):
2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
6 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD (15):
1 Ancient Hydra
2 Echoing Truth
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
2 Misdirection
2 Naturalize
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
2 Stifle

The MD feels pretty solid.  My only debate is cutting a single Impulse/Intuition for a 2nd Wish.  The SB still feels like it could be tighter, though.

[JamesPr]

One Cunning Wish doesn't really do much.  Wouldn't it make more sense to run one or two more Cunning Wishes, expand the toolbox sideboard, and take out two Impulses?

[Shade]

Okay, the maindeck is set:

ENGINE (5):
1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

BEATS (2):
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

DRAW/SEARCH (17):
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
2 Impulse
4 Intuition

DISRUPTION (12):
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

MANA (24):
2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
6 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

This feels really, really tight.  I like it.

The SB needs help, though.  These are pretty much locked in:

1 Ancient Hydra
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel

So, that leaves 11 spots to play with.  Ground Seal will make the cut vs. Slaver, but I'm not sure how many to run, or how many to run of each of these Wish targets:

Echoing Truth
Misdirection
Naturalize
Stifle

Right now, I'm thinking of 2 of each of those, plus 3 Seals, leaving me with:

SIDEBOARD (15):
1 Ancient Hydra
2 Echoing Truth
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
2 Misdirection
2 Naturalize
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
2 Stifle

I would prefer not to splash any further for black or red, if possible.  Thoughts?

[JamesPr]

Some weaknesses of Oath are that it has quite a bit of problems dealing with troublesome permanents such as Platinum Angel or Chalice for Two.  In fact, some builds even have to scoop when faced with that predicament.  Some things going for Cunning Wish is that it's allows Oath to have an answer, and it allows Oath to have another sink for it's Drain Mana which it kind of lacks.

If wish is optimal in U/G Oath what would a wish sideboard consist of for a random but powered metagame?

Wish Targets
1x Naturalize
1x Misdirection
1x Echoing Truth
1x Rushing River
3x Rack and Ruin
3x Red Elemental Blast

I'm thinking something along the lines of this, maybe with a Blue Elemental Blast thrown in in place of something.

[Shade]

Some weaknesses of Oath are that it has quite a bit of problems dealing with troublesome permanents such as Platinum Angel or Chalice for Two.  In fact, some builds even have to scoop when faced with that predicament.  Some things going for Cunning Wish is that it's allows Oath to have an answer, and it allows Oath to have another sink for it's Drain Mana which it kind of lacks.

If wish is optimal in U/G Oath what would a wish sideboard consist of for a random but powered metagame?

Wish Targets
1x Naturalize
1x Misdirection
1x Echoing Truth
1x Rushing River
3x Rack and Ruin
3x Red Elemental Blast

I'm thinking something along the lines of this, maybe with a Blue Elemental Blast thrown in in place of something.

Well, there are 4 "must have" creatures in the SB (Hydra and the 3 Angels), so that leaves a total of 11 spots to play with.  I would definitely consider at least a single Stifle to handle decks like TPS.  I'm not sure that Rushing River is all that hot -- I've found 2 Truths to be better most times.  BEB may not be a bad idea, though I'm not really sure what I'd cut for it.

For the record, I now run only 2 Wishes, because they tend to clog the hand when you're also running 4 Intuitions, and I haven't found that I've needed more than 2 with Storm and Impulse digging into the deck.

[Shade]

Here is my newest version, now featuring SB Chalices!

ENGINE (5):
1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

BEATS (2):
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

DRAW/SEARCH (17):
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
3 Impulse
4 Intuition

DISRUPTION (12):
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak

MANA (24):
2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
7 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD (15):
1 Ancient Hydra
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Echoing Truth
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Misdirection
1 Naturalize
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
1 Stifle

I decided to forget about Drains, at least for the time being, so I put the Leaks back in.  I also went with only 2 Wishes and 3 Impulses.  I reduced the Trop count back down to one, as the second was unneeded.

My SB has been modified a little bit.  I'm still running the 4 "other" creatures and 3 Seals, but have opted to add a set of Chalices while reducing all of the 2-of Wish targets to one-ofs instead.