Nevinyrral, Archlich

[Marco]

I've long wanted to make a Lich-type card (see Dracolich for a failed attempt). I'm not sure how we feel about legendary creatures for our set. We have plenty of legendary creatures that we've made up, but Zur the Enchanter is the only legendary creature I could only find in the Master List that has a pre-established history in Magic. Regardless, I set about making a card for Nevinyrral (of Nevinyrral's Disk fame), having already made a card called Nevinyrral's Familiar.

I knew Nevinyrral was an Archlich and therefore was likely black. So I started off with this:

Nevinyrral, Archlich
<large casting cost>
Legendary Creature -- <Cleric? Lich?>
<cool ability>
<5/5? 6/6?>

The cool ability started out as something relating to Nevinyrral's Phylactery ("To complete her transformation to a lich, the character must create a phylactery using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The phylactery is crafted in three stages, and the lich transfers a bit more of her life force to it at each stage. It does not, however, grant her any of the normal benefits of a phylactery until it is fully completed... The most common physical form for a phylactery is a sealed metal box containing strips of parchment on which magical phrases have been transcribed... Once the phylactery has been completed, the lich can avoid permanent destruction as long as her phylactery survives... If the phylactery is destroyed while the lich is still active in a body, her undead life force automatically joins that body. She takes no penalties of any kind for that joining, but without a phylactery, she cannot recover if her body is subsequently destroyed. She may create a new phylactery to replace a lost one if she has the time and resources to do so"):

Nevinyrral, Archlich
<casting cost>
Legendary Creature
As long as an artifact named Nevinyrral's Phylactery is in play, Nevinyrral, Archlich is indestructible.
<power/toughness>

Then, of course, I would need to make an artifact card called Nevinyrral's Phylactery. Something simple like:

Nevinyrral's Phylactery
1
Artifact

Then I thought I could give it an ability like:

At the beginning of your upkeep, if Nevinyrral's Phylactery is in your graveyard, you may return Nevinyrral's Phylactery to your hand.

(This characterizes the "She may create a new phylactery to replace a lost one if she has the time and resources to do so" and makes Nevinyrral less fragile if your opponent manages to destroy the Phylactery.)

I decided that I didn't like the Phylactery idea and made Nevinyrral indestructible himself. Then I gave Nevinyrral Fear because liches are "Feared by mortal beings for their malign magic, their intelligence, and their willingness to embrace undeath for a chance to live forever" and because Liches have a Fear Aura ("Beginning at 2nd level, a lich is shrouded in a dreadful aura of death and evil...").

Nevinyrral, Archlich
<casting cost>
Legendary Creature
Fear
Nevinyrral, Archlich is indestructible.
<power/toughness>

Giving Nevinyrral Fear (for flavor reasons) made him into a creature you want to attack with. But another direction I could have gone was to play up the Necromancer angle ("The dead make good soldiers. They can't disobey orders, they never surrender, and they don't stop fighting when a random body part falls off. ? Nevinyrral, Necromancer's Handbook"):

Nevinyrral, Archlich
<casting cost>
Legendary Creature
Tap: Return target creature card from your graveyard to play.
<power/toughness>

Next was casting cost and power/toughness. I wanted this to be a powerful but playable rare, so I went with a heavy black casting cost of 3BBB and a power/toughness of 5/5. This reminded me of Ihsan's Shade, which saw quite a lot of play in its day, and made me realize that Nevinyrral needed a drawback (or a higher casting cost). I decided it would be flavorful to go with a Phyrexian Negator-like drawback:

Nevinyrral, Archlich
3BBB
Legendary Creature -- Lich
5/5
Fear
Nevinyrral, Archlich is indestructible.
Whenever Nevinyrral, Archlich is dealt damage, sacrifice a permanent other than Nevinyrral, Archlich for each 1 damage dealt to it.

I think the creature type Lich is acceptible; however, I could go with "Legendary Creature -- Cleric" or just "Legendary Creature".

Mock up (until card is finalized).

[Marco]

Current Wording:

Nevinyrral, Archlich
3BBB
Legendary Creature -- Lich Lord
1/5
Tap: Destroy target creature. Add X black mana to your mana pool, where X is that creature's toughness. Spend this mana only to play activated abilities of Nevinyrral, Archlich.
XB: Put target creature card with converted mana cost X or less from a graveyard into play under your control.
BBB: Untap Nevinyrral, Archlich.

Nevinyrral's Phylactery
1
Legendary Artifact
Nevinyrral, Archlich is indestructible. (“Destroy� effects and lethal damage don’t destroy it.)

[Machinus]

Casting cost of 6 + saccing drawback makes this card pretty unplayable.

[Nazdakka]

Current Wording:

Nevinyrral, Archlich
3BBB
Legendary Creature – Lich
5/5
Fear
Nevinyrral, Archlich is indestructible.
Whenever Nevinyrral, Archlich is dealt damage, sacrifice a permanent other than Nevinyrral, Archlich for each 1 damage dealt to it.

Isn't this 90% of Phyrexian Negator, except without the easy mana cost? I think that if we are going to make Nevinyrral in person we need him to do something clever, special and black/blue, as opposed to just beating down. A Lich lord type creature is certainly cool, and IMO deserves to be made, but I'm not sure it fits how I see Nevinyrral.

[Bram]

Isn't this 90% of Phyrexian Negator, except without the easy mana cost?

Mind you it also doesn't have Negator's nasty habit of dying when you're out of permanents. You can't sack this baby to itself. Furthermore, you can't kill it with damage.

An opponent can clear the board by blocking this thing or dealing direct damage, but this thing stays on there. Stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.

I think this thing shouldn't have fear. This makes it easier for an opponent to clear your board, which is kinda the whole cool element to this card. Also, I think it should be Legendary Creature - Lich Master

[Marco]

Would a casting cost of 2BB (or 3BB) be out of the question? (Kind of like Yukora, the Prisoner.) Maybe if I drop the Fear?

I agree that Fear makes Nevinyrral's Phyrexian Negator-like drawback less relevant; however, it's awfully flavorful.

As Bram mentioned, Phyrexian Negator could sacrifice itself to its drawback. This stays in play and if you can keep damaging it, it may very well be the only permanent in play on its controller's side.

[Nazdakka]

Stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.

Would a casting cost of 2BB (or 3BB) be out of the question? (Kind of like Yukora, the Prisoner.) Maybe if I drop the Fear?

Without Fear, I think he'd be broken at 2BB but ok at 3BB. At 4 mana, despite the drawback this guy would still be way ahead of the various Juzam variants. With Fear, he's gotta be 6 mana. Evasion and indestructability on fatties is very strong. Can anyone think of a non-evasive ability consistant with 'scaryness' other than fear?

[Ephraim]

I think this thing shouldn't have fear. This makes it easier for an opponent to clear your board, which is kinda the whole cool element to this card. Also, I think it should be Legendary Creature - Lich Master

I'd much rather see it be a Lich Lord than a Lich Master -- just because "Master" is a nearly non-existant creature type that is fulfilled by the similar, pre-existing "Lord" creature type. (Not to be confused with my recent creation of the "Magistrate" creature type, which fulfills a type not adequately covered by "Cleric.")

[Marco]

I don't really like Lich Lord or Lich Master. There are no other Liches for Nevinyrral to "lord" over. Either Lich or Lich Cleric is what I'm going for.

[Malhavoc]

I don't like the idea of a lich doing the beatdown. It shouldn't have a big P/T IMHO (no more than a 2/4 I'd say), but some really nasty abilities instead.

About the philactery: a lich isn't indestructible, really. It just returns from the ashes after some days if it has been destroyed. I would say something like this:

If ~this~ leaves play, return it to play at the beginning of your next turn's upkeep.

If you want you can say this ability is conditional to the presence in play of a particular artifact (the philactery). You could then take this other way:

Nevinyrall's Philactery:
If a card named Nevinyrall leaves play, return that card to play at the beginning of your next turn's upkeep.


While Nevinyrall could have the ability
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may search you library or graveyard for a card named Nevinyrall's Phylactery and put it into your hand. (or into play?)


That leaves us with the main ability..

Liches have a paralyzing touch, but they seldom use it. They are primarly spellcasters. Here it is an idea: it could cast spells, YOUR spells.

At the beginning of your upkeep, you may imprint a card from you hand on Nevinyrall. You can cast cards imprinted on Nevinyrall without paying their mana cost

Note that if it leaves play it is able to come back, but without the cards you've imprinted. This is good according to flavor since liches "lose" spell slots once reanimated.

[Bram]

Without Fear, I think he'd be broken at 2BB but ok at 3BB.

Agreed. Drop fear and drop CC to 3BB should be OK.

I second the 'Lord' sentiment. It was kinda what I meant in the first place. I always mix the two up. You're right, there's one master in the game.

To me, it doesn't matter that there are no other creature type - lichs. We could make them

[Matt]

Wait, how do you know Nevinyrral is a lich? The fifth edition Drudge Skeletons pretty much establishes him as a necromancer (not that they're necessarily incompatible but they're certainly not the same thing).

[Jacob Orlove]

Wait, how do you know Nevinyrral is a lich? The fifth edition Drudge Skeletons pretty much establishes him as a necromancer (not that they're necessarily incompatible but they're certainly not the same thing).

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in a Duelist. I'll go look for it.

I also think that he should be much smaller, with a cooler ability--more like a blue wizard.

[Marco]

Wait, how do you know Nevinyrral is a lich? The fifth edition Drudge Skeletons pretty much establishes him as a necromancer (not that they're necessarily incompatible but they're certainly not the same thing).

Just a quick retort for now. I've been trying really hard to find the excerpt regarding Nevinyrral being an Archlich on the Internet. So far I have been unsucessful; however, Jacob is right. It was mentioned in an issue of The Duelist magazine that I no longer have a copy of (I think it may have been issue #18).

I did find this. Unfortunately, it is not necessarily accurate.

Although, I have seen Nevinyrral referred to as a "Lich Lord", so I could go with Legendary Creature - Lich Lord.

More later.

[Ephraim]

Nevinyrral is also called a Lichlord by Phyrexia.com, which is usually pretty accurate in their storyline descriptions.

[Marco]

Yes, I just discovered that website!

[Jacob Orlove]

I checked duelists 17-21, but either I missed it or it's in a different issue.

[Anusien]

I agree with the statements echoed by others.  And while Liches are traditionally very powerful Necromancers and could probably beat the faces in of some intrepid heroes, they tend to have others do their dirty work for them.  It would make some sense to have a life loss drawback, as Liches tend to require bodyparts, and while a Planeswalker is not going to hand over a Kidney, it will take life energy to pay one off.  It makes sense to make it the ultimate necromancer/animater, but you don't want a bad creature to represent Niven.

For abilities, what about:

At the beginning of your upkeep, lose 2 life.
B: Regenerate
T: Put target creature from your graveyard into play with haste.  At the end of turn, destroy that creature.

The life loss I already mentioned.  The "B: Regenerate" fits the theme from the early stuff a la 4th ed where you could play a whole slew of regenerators, Disk, and then clean up.  And notice the synergies with those sorts of regenerators and the animate effect?  Flavorfully it works too, because he serves them up to do his bidding, and then starts to devour their life energies.

[Marco]

Thanks for looking, Jacob.

I certainly don't want to represent Nevinyrral with a bad card, so I'm willing to explore multiple ideas and mechanics. Here is what we have so far:

Nevinyrral, Archlich
<casting cost>
Legendary Creature -- Lich Lord
<cool ability>
<power/toughness>

Fear, indestructibility, and regeneration are all posibilities. While regeneration has obvious synergy with Nevinyrral's Disk, it is said that Nevinyrral's last act was to use his disk to deny his enemies any of his magical treasure trove and that the disk destroyed him along with it.

Malhavoc: I like your idea, but is there any way we can make it work without using Imprint...?

[Jacob Orlove]

How about something like this?

Nevinyrral, etc
(maybe 2BB?)
Legendary Creature -- Lich Wizard
1/4
At the beginning of your upkeep, (do something cool) for each artifact you control.
(some other cool ability)
(flavor text about how greedy he was, how he wouldn't let death separate him from his treasures, etc)

[Bram]

I think can safely say at this point that flavor-based top-down design is not our strong point. This card is going all over the place

[Matt]

Well it would be different if we had a canonical source to knwo what the top-down concept is. All I really know about this guy is that he's some powerful black mage, that's far too generic to make a good card out of.

[Machinus]

Yeah, where is our style guide?

[Marco]

Sadly, there is no style guide for Nevinyrral, anymore than there is a style guide for Zur, the Enchanter.

I think both Nazdakka and Bram would agree that I could get away with:

Nevinyrral, Archlich
3BB
Legendary Creature -- Lich Lord
5/5
Nevinyrral, Archlich is indestructible.
Whenever Nevinyrral, Archlich is dealt damage, sacrifice a permanent other than Nevinyrral, Archlich for each 1 damage dealt to it.

However, I agree with Jacob that "he should be much smaller, with a cooler ability--more like a blue wizard". I still like Malhavoc's idea, minus the Imprint. It seems like Nevinyrral should be a spellcaster. Something like Kaho, Minamo Historian would be cool. A Vampiric Tutor every turn would also be cool, but it's been done (Bringer of the Black Dawn).

Here is what I am working on:

Nevinyrral, Archlich
2BB
Legendary Creature -- Lich Lord
2/2
<cool ability>

[Ephraim]

Your reference to Kaho gave me an idea for something neat that you could do with old Nevy here.

Remove a card in your hand from the game: Return Nevinyrral, Archlich from your graveyard to your hand.
{2}{B}{B}, {T}: You may play a card removed from the game with a card named Nevinyrral, Archlich without paying its mana cost.

The ability not only provides a semblance of immortality for Nevinyyral, but it also yields the notion that he's a powerful spellcaster. The coolest thing, in my opinion, is that because the nature of his immortality ability requires that his second ability call only for a card named Nevinyrral, Archlich, then if more than one player is playing with him, it means they can gank each others' spells, which makes sense, since Legendary creatures are, supposedly, singular.

[Godder]

As a Lich, he needs to have some way of returning to play, or being very difficult to remove from play. Indestructible comes to mind, but Ephraim's ability is decidedly cool (although I think returning him to play outright would be cool if it could be safely done).

[Marco]

Remove a card in your hand from the game: Return Nevinyrral, Archlich from your graveyard to your hand.
{B}, : You may play a card removed from the game with a card named Nevinyrral, Archlich without paying its mana cost.

Interesting. These are the kinds of ideas I want to see. How do we feel about being able to play spells of any colour (or casting cost) for {B}?

[Ephraim]

Remove a card in your hand from the game: Return Nevinyrral, Archlich from your graveyard to your hand.
{B}, : You may play a card removed from the game with a card named Nevinyrral, Archlich without paying its mana cost.

Interesting. These are the kinds of ideas I want to see. How do we feel about being able to play spells of any colour (or casting cost) for {B}?

I struggled with that notion myself. Any sort of activated ability on the creature in play -- even ones with a "once a turn" clause tended to seem abusive to me. I figured that this method was fair, since you have to find a way to get Nevinyyral into your graveyard consistently (only trivially easy in Vintage.) On the other hand, even if you have a sacrifice outlet or something, you still need to have mana to cast Nevinyrral, cards to discard to him that you want to play for the "discount" price of {B}, and time to remove the card(s) you want to play and then re-cast Nevinyyral and wait for him to stop suffering from summoning sickness. There's a lot of planning associated with getting any benefit from this guy.

[Shock Wave]

I think this is perfect. The card is playable solely based on the fact that he's a 5/5 for 5, and his ability is playable if he sticks around for long enough. I can't imagine a way to tweak this ability without making it a little too strong, outside of reducing the activation cost to  .

[Matt]

The problem isn't that the card is overpowered or has a boring mechanic but that Nevinyrral seems more like a powerful spellcaster rather than a bruiser.