Type 0 Banned/Restricted List

[shade88]

Type 0, vintage without the restricted list. Vintage at its finest...

or not.

Believe it or not, one of the biggest problems I have found in Type 0 is that the format is too broken. Gone are the days of the fundamental turn being the second or third turn

 In Type 0, there is a fundamental coin flip.

I love being able to play with four copies of the cards that bend magic rules. However, the format didn't feel like magic. Games were too short. It became impossible to sit back with four ancestral recalls and play draw go. Aggro was non existent. The games came down simply to deck design, a player with an IQ over 80, and a coin flip.

This isn't the first thread to try and solve the problem. In earlier threads, it was proposed to allow 5 cards from each set, or keep the decks "cheap". i.e. anything above force of will wasn't allowed. These solutions, however, just resembled a slightly more broken type 1 game.

So, with your help, I am trying to create a banned/restricted list for Type 0 that would allow for a diversified deck field that didn’t feel too similar to its cousin, Type 1. Any criticism/ideas/questions are more than welcome.

My original idea was to take out the pieces for combo, but I decided to just go for with win conditions.

Type 0 banned list:

channel
tendrils of agony
stroke of genius
braingeyser
added: brainfreeze

That's it. Just those four right now. But the list isn’t going to just stop there. I would love any opinions on other cards from the banned/restricted list that speed up the format too much.

Here are a few cards to start

dream halls
memory jar
mind over matter
mind's desire
time spiral
yagmoth's bargain
burning wish

Please include a few words justifying your choice of a card.
Also remember, this list isn't here to ban combo, just the degenerate combo decks that have a 95% turn 1 kill.

[Jacob Orlove]

There's no way to "fix" a format that allows you to play 20 moxes.

[Malhavoc]

Just an idea thrown in: do like they do with warhammer. Every card has a "point value" associated with it. For example, say that you have 1000 points you can spend for you deck+sideboard. All cards cost 10 points, apart  from a list of very good ones that cost a lot more. Anyway, you aren't allowed to run more that 4 cards with the same name. With right values for broken cards, this way it should be possible to balance the format, however deciding right values for the broken cards isn't easy at all, and would require a LOT of testing.

[Matt]

Brain Freeze and Tendrils kind of go together. Possibly Hunting Pack as well.

[Machinus]

Mind's Desire?!?!!?

Is this really worth it?

[shade88]

Just an idea thrown in: do like they do with warhammer. Every card has a "point value" associated with it. For example, say that you have 1000 points you can spend for you deck+sideboard. All cards cost 10 points, apart  from a list of very good ones that cost a lot more. Anyway, you aren't allowed to run more that 4 cards with the same name. With right values for broken cards, this way it should be possible to balance the format, however deciding right values for the broken cards isn't easy at all, and would require a LOT of testing.

This is an interesting idea. It would allow for any deck, including broken combo, just not the format distorting 90+% first turn win combo. Perhaps something like a 1000 point deck, with 30 points for restricted cards (approximately 22 restricted cards), and 10 points for every other card in the deck. Each deck over 60 cards could have that maxiumum of 22, and cards after 60 would not count towards the total, but also couldn't be restricted....in case someone feels the need to bust out battle of wits.

Perhaps it would just be better to have a maximum of 20 cards from the restricted list in any deck?

Brain Freeze and Tendrils kind of go together. Possibly Hunting Pack as well.

Good point, I completely forgot about brain freeze for some reason. As for hunting pack, I don't mind this as much. Simply because it's not an instant win, but a win that your deck has a turn to respond to.

Mind's Desire?!?!!?

Is this really worth it?

Ehhh...probably not. If a point system isn't used, and brainfeeze and tendrils of agony are banned, then this card won't be on a banned/restricted list.

[Tash]

Yeah. You most definitely need to have some sort of balance in the game.

I was working on something similar to this on Apprentice, and just went crazy with the deck building. I have no idea what the win % is on Turn 1 or anything, but its really consistant on turn 1.

        4 Mox Sapphire
        4 Mox Ruby
        4 Demonic Tutor
        4 Dark Ritual
        4 Windfall
        4 Wheel of Fortune
        4 Time Spiral
        4 Timetwister
        4 Tolarian Academy
        4 Ancestral Recall
        4 Underworld Dreams
        4 Black Lotus
        4 Mox Jet
        4 Mox Emerald
        4 Time Walk

Yep, underworld dreams as a kill condition. Isn't that sad.

Of course the bah-roken-ness of this format is what makes it different, but with decks like that running around no one really wants to play.

Just my 2 cents.

[shade88]

Ya I agree that with those types of decks no one wants to play, but no one wants to play a format too similar to type 1 either.

I have been thinking that a limit of 20 restricted cards would be best. It allows for decks, for example tog, to play 4x recall, 4x timewalk, and 12x their choice of moxes, wills, tutors, fofs, and so on. It creates a very broken format...but one that relies much more on skill. In addition, it has  a noticeable amount different from type 1.

[CCClark]

Restricting cards in type 0?   Umm, why not play type 1?  There's a reason they have spent years tuning that restricted list.   Anything on it can be warped if unrestricted.  0 is just not real fun as it comes down to a matter of making a 1st turn kill deck with whatever isn't restricted. 

I compare it to unrestricting and allowing oh say, Library of alexandria into 1.5.   Sure, you can't make a 1st turn kill deck, but it warps the format as every deck worth playing will have 4 copies.   You could say the same for just about anything off the banned/restricted list in 1.5.   Decent comparision.