[Discussion] Blue Fork -- will it see play?

[Shade]

For those of you who haven't seen this yet, it has already been confirmed at www.mtgsalvation.com.

Twincast (aka "Jumelance")
UU
Instant
Rare
Copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for this spell.

Yes, Fork has been unrestricted recently, but I always figured that was because it was because of the RR cc, making it much harder to play in Vintage where red is not that powerful.  With it now being blue, I feel there's a lot of potential for it.

Thoughts?

[Freelancer]

I can see this being on of the first restricted cards in the new sets.

Good sides:
Can act as a counterspell VS. counterspells
Can copy opponents spells
When it resolves and copies something relevant it wins the game (think recall, gifts or opponents will to cast some instants in your grave)
The copy resolves first, so you can do insane stuff like copy recall-draw counter-counter original recall
Its blue

Bad sides:
Ehm, its double blue and cant target creatures?

The more I think about it the better it becomes, I almost feel like building a fork deck.  :shock:

[Eandori]

A blue fork?  Hello restricted list in vintage!

[Rico Suave]

I will be much, much more hesitant to cast Yawgmoth's Will blindly if this card sees a lot of play.  

[Robert the Swordsman]

Yes, the fact that it can copy an opponent's absurd spells (Ancestral, Yawg. Will, Intuition, etc.) is actually very interesting.

[Luiggi]

That card looks and sounds insane. I for one hope it's real, . I'd also love to try this in Extended...

Luiggi

[Toad]

It looks like a terrible card to me. Most of the Instants or Sorceries that are worth copying already win the game on their own without the need to copy them, and if the opponent is in a situation where he's resolving Yawgmoth's Will or Tinker, you've probably already lost so trying to copy it would just be a useless desperate move anyways.

Plus, It does nothing on its own, which is very very bad in a format as brutal as T1.

[Shade]

It looks like a terrible card to me. Most of the Instants or Sorceries that are worth copying already win the game on their own without the need to copy them, and if the opponent is in a situation where he's resolving Yawgmoth's Will or Tinker, you've probably already lost so trying to copy it would just be a useless desperate move anyways.

Plus, It does nothing on its own, which is very very bad in a format as brutal as T1.

It can be pitched to FoW, if nothing else.

[Kowal]

It looks like a terrible card to me. Most of the Instants or Sorceries that are worth copying already win the game on their own without the need to copy them, and if the opponent is in a situation where he's resolving Yawgmoth's Will or Tinker, you've probably already lost so trying to copy it would just be a useless desperate move anyways.

I fail to see how winning in response could be anything close to bad.

[Robert the Swordsman]

Actually, in my opinion this is at times (if not often) way better than Counterspell.

For example, if someone played Ancestral, would you rather counter it, or copy it and try your luck from there?

This is obviously somewhat situational and dependant on how far along in the game you are (board position is a factor as well), but one can see how this could be completely awesome.

I hate Stifle, but I really like this card.

[Vegeta2711]

It's neat. Hardly as incredibly broken as some think it'll be, but definitely useable. Being able to copy X broken spell at instant speed, tends to be pretty good.

[Machinus]

The only scenarios that I can see this card being good in are really heavy control mirrors, and agasint broken stuff like tinker. But I would rather counter your tinker than for us both to have one.

[nataz]

The only scenarios that I can see this card being good in are really heavy control mirrors, and against broken stuff like tinker. But I would rather counter your tinker than for us both to have one.

right, and I would much rather Drain( at the same CC), then counter the tinker, let alone just fork it. I'm certainly not sold on it being amazing, but I will go as far to say that its better then "terrible".

[Revvik]

It looks like a terrible card to me. Most of the Instants or Sorceries that are worth copying already win the game on their own without the need to copy them, and if the opponent is in a situation where he's resolving Yawgmoth's Will or Tinker, you've probably already lost so trying to copy it would just be a useless desperate move anyways.

Plus, It does nothing on its own, which is very very bad in a format as brutal as T1.

Mana Drain does nothing on its own either.  I wasn't too impressed with it at first, but if you take on a Keanu Reeves 'Bill n Ted' accent and try saying:

Opponent: I'll Ancestral
First, I'LL Ancestral
or
Opponent: Cast Duress
First, I'LL Duress

The card just becomes that much more... erm... excellent.

[Freelancer]

This card will be insane in legacy's solidarity, just the idea of going -untapper-counter-copy untapper-go off makes me feel SO good.

It looks like a terrible card to me. Most of the Instants or Sorceries that are worth copying already win the game on their own without the need to copy them, and if the opponent is in a situation where he's resolving Yawgmoth's Will or Tinker, you've probably already lost so trying to copy it would just be a useless desperate move anyways.

Plus, It does nothing on its own, which is very very bad in a format as brutal as T1.

If I get to copy a Yawgmoth's will there is a decent chance there is a force of will in my graveyard, not to mention that I can cast all my instants again. The point is you get the benefit first which is a big plus. Also if you copy something it doesn't mean you can't counter it anymore.


This is really the only card that got me excited in the entire set so far. (well the epic mechanic is pretty neat as well) It has so much untapped potential. I am not sure if it will get restricted though, time will tell.

[Outlaw]

I think the card actually does have potential, if you look at all the cards that have the ability to be copied in the type 1 pool of broken-ness it seems brutal.  Ancestral, Yawgmoth's will, time walk, demonic tutor, any card draw for discussion sake, counter spells and tinker.  All these are things that you definitely want to counter.  Think if someone demonic tutors, you fork the tutor and find a drain / force / something broken, allow their tutor to resolve then counter what their shootin out at you.  You cast yawgmoth's will, I fork and find the force for it and throw an ancestral in while im at it.  I don't understand how this card could simply be terrible without any testing in a deck that relies on supporting UU for mana drain, or even UUU for future sight?

[Joblin Velder]

I don't understand how this card could simply be terrible without any testing in a deck that relies on supporting UU for mana drain, or even UUU for future sight?

Exactly, Outlaw. This is also exactly why this is so much better than fork.

[Imsomniac101]

This just sucks. R&D just wants to make Red suffer doesn't it. Seriously, I thought Aaron Forsythe said something about bringing the power level of blue down. Well that's out the window.

[Marton]

im not sure that it's better than playing a counter. Sure it's nice to tinker/yawgmoth/demonic/gift etc. first before your opponent, but really all you want is that your opponent doesnt do it. I can see it being used in blue decks where 'good' counters are already pretty much all included. And in sidebords, of course, which is where I expect this card to be. It can always be used to copy your own spells (opponent: tinker, you: drain, opponent: force, you: jumelance my drain on your force , but that seems rather highly conditional (like, 2x ancestral). Don't get me wrong, it seems to certainly have a use, but it seems rather badly suited at forking your own spells (in the current format) and forking your opponent stuff doesnt stops the fact that you still generally dont want your opponent to resolve x spell because his deck is likely better suited at abusing x card you're forking, hence putting you in a strategically bad position of forking an opponent spell, but not actually stopping it.

It does remains interesting in sidebords for mirror decks tho. Time will tell.

[LotusHead]

Blue Fork?

Face it, you'll all be fighting over JumeLancing TimeWalk/Ancestral/ForceOfWill/DemonicTutor/Tinker/BrainStorm/Yawgmoth'sWill/Intuition/GiftsUngiven in no time.

We've always wanted a blue Fork and now we have one. Fork Away! It could have come with a better name, however.

[Matt]

"Jumelance" isn't the real name, is it? Isn't that the French name?

Also, I love this card and want four ASAP. This is going to be a chase rare for sure.

Also, I like how you can do this:

You: Ancestral
Me: Fork it to me, draw a Mana Drain to counter your Ancestral and get two other cards as a bonus.
You: God damn it.

in which case it's far better than merely countering the opponent's spell.

[Lunar]

as opposed to say misdirection in that example right? which doesnt require mana to use...

[Freelancer]

Misdirection only does that against recall and deep analysis. Jumelance does those kinda things against a host of other cards (fact-gifts-will-others) so thats hardly relevant.

[Lunar]

in that example

I was commenting on his scenario....you should notice that he didnt mention anything other than ancestral recall (to which I replied)

Also what is with the jumelance thing, MTG salvation the site the guy got the spoiler from lists this as twincast....

[Robert the Swordsman]

Them: I'll cast Yawgmoth's Will.

You: I'll [bluefork] it.

Them: Resolves.

You: I'll (insert broken stuff here), then play a Mana Drain from my graveyard targeting your Will.

Them: Bastard.

[Disburden]

"Jumelance" isn't the real name, is it? Isn't that the French name?

Some other sites have it under "twincast" on their spoiler lists. Which is alot better name IMO.

[Bastian]

You're all forgetting a problem here. No matter how good the effect the card might have is there any space in current decks for it? What are you going to take to fit it? It seems like something of which you want several copies (3-4). I doubt there's room in any deck to make this a viable choice. Perhaps in the SB of some decks...

[Toad]

Them: I'll cast Yawgmoth's Will.

You: I'll [bluefork] it.

Them: Resolves.

You: I'll (insert broken stuff here), then play a Mana Drain from my graveyard targeting your Will.

Them: Bastard.

Them : I'll cast Meddling Mage on your key card.
You (holding Fork) : Bastard.

Them : I'll cast Rootwater Thief to wreck your business.
You : Bastard.

Them : I'll cast Chains of Mephistopheles and Smokestack
You : Bastard.

Them : I'll cast Goblin Welder with Mindslaver in the graveyard.
You : Bastard.

Them : I'll cast Tinker (for Mindslaver) with 4 mana floating.
You : Bastard.

Them : I'll cast Future Sight.
You : Bastard.

Them : I'll cast Crucible of Worlds.
You : Bastard.

Fork is very very conditionnal. Sure, It can do broken things, but It's often a very dead card. Instead of playing Fork to copy draw spells, I'd rather, say,  play more draw spells.

Playing cards that win the game > playing cards that rely on your opponent doing stuff

[Rico Suave]

Playing cards that win the game > playing cards that rely on your opponent doing stuff

To be fair, this card does not rely on your opponent doing stuff.  In fact, it's very possible to Fork one's own spells. 

[Malhavoc]

Playing cards that win the game > playing cards that rely on your opponent doing stuff

To be fair, this card does not rely on your opponent doing stuff.  In fact, it's very possible to Fork one's own spells. 

Exactly.

What about timewalk+fork->+2 extra turns
Then yawgmoth -> brokens stuff, timewalk+ fork

And of course the above example is taking into account that this card is restricted. Otherwise...

@Toad: in your past examples: I'd do AK for 2/3 + Fork. Yes, this requires some mana, in fact this blue fork could require a bit more mana to be used properly, but the sheer amount of power it brings it's awesome!