Single Card Discussion: Erayo, Soratami Ascendant

[CCClark]

From the Betrayers spoiler

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - 1U (sorry couldn't find the symbols for it.  edit if you like)
Legendary Creature-Monk
Flying
Whenever you play a spell, if you have played more then 4 spells this turn, flip Upper-Rank Moonfolk.
-------------------------
Erayo's Essence
Legendary Enchanment
Counter the first spell each opponent plays each turn.
Rare


This card seems to have a natural synergestic effect with Arcane Laboratory.  A hard lock affecting only the opponent.   Of course, this is a 2 card combo with one card not being all that great on it's own, but then again Welder isn't that great on it's own either.     There are uncounterable cards out there like Urza's rage, but they rarely see play in type 1.   There is no land enchantment killer out there which really makes me think about this card even more. 

Bosigie, who shelters all is about the only thing I see that can unbreak the lock once it's up.

The fact that it starts as a creature prevents this from being overly silly.   2 cc is fairly quick, with 4 spells probably going to be protecting it while the lock is set up.  I forsee Daze, FOW, Brainstorm, Gush, moxen, and the like being the activation.   

The only thing that bothers me is I don't see a deck off the top of my head that can really use this combo despite the fact it's quite scary.  Oath still can function under it also as long as the Oath came out first.  Welder can also still function.  Though neither deck will be able to protect it's key cards once the lock is on. 

It still seems worth discussing because it just seems breakable. 
 

[apoc7k]

This is actually fairly cool. As you've said before, the mana cost is fair. 1U is nice. And with all the different decks that utilize storm, this could very well be an incredible addition of protection for a storm deck. This card forces the opponent to play a lot more cautiously. Losing the wrong card means certain doom for an opponent, and this could also be an amazing addition to a hardcore control deck.

I would love to talk more about this card, but I just realized I have a lot of homework, and my laundry machine is probably on fire, so bye bye!

[Zeylon]

I don't see this card being great in storm combo. Xantid Swarm etc. are usually better options. It costs too much mana and takes too many resources (have to play 4 cards) just to combo off next turn. If you can play that many cards and you're playing combo, you can often go off that turn, and by not trying to, you're wasting resources (4 cards), just to counter 1 spell the turn that you do try to go off?

If you're doing all this for one turn (the turn you go off) to stop one counterspell why not just play FoW or Duress instead, they're more reliable otpions, and Xantid swarm is pretty much superior.

[Almighty]

As previously discussed, this is worse than Duress and Force of will, but I can picture this being used in some weird control deck as some equally weird card advantage tool that uses Arcane Lab to achieve an eventual hard lock. Whether a deck like that would be effective, well, that will take some testing and tweaking to figure out. It might be good in New England, since there is lots of storm based combo around here, and the having Labs main may swing games in your favor, but I doubt it. It will be a lot of fun to test out, though.

[CCClark]

I can't see this being used in a storm type deck either as there are so many better choices for what you need to accomplish in storm types.  You really need a direct way to remove your favorite threat and this isn't it.   

I only see this in a weird control type deck.   It just has a hideous activation and a weak forefront otherwise.  A control deck is about the only thing that can pull it off.   It's too unstable for anything else.  The nasty combination of arcane lab is about the only thing I could think of to make it worth playing at all.    I'll let the combo heavy areas figure this one out.  I'm sure there's a deck idea in here somewhere.   Bring back phid control maybe? 

I did notice a lot of Oath decks using Arcane lab already in the board just for storm type decks.  It would be interesting to see this added to make a lockdown since it already has the capability to use Lab ,a capability of playing it easily by Oath or hard cast, plus an ability to cast more than 4 spells easily.   I don't know if it could warrant a spot in an already fairly solid build though.   


By the way, did you guys catch the blue Fork?  Twincast?  lol amusing.  I can see all the Shaharzad decks saying add me now.  ROFL

[Wollblad]

I think Zeylon covers why this is not playable in a storm-deck, but what about Grow? That's a deck that already plays 4 spells more or less turn. The effect with Erayo will then be a speed bump for the opponent which is what the deck needs to make its Dryads fast enough.

A lock with Arcane Laboratory seems fine at first, but then such a deck will have first to play Erayo, then 4 spells, possibly one being Arcane Lab. If the deck should have any consistancy on doing this, it will need a lot of tutors making it using up a lot of resources finding and plaing the combo parts. What if the opponent then playes a Mishra's Factory or cycles Decree of Justice, or if he already has a Welder in play or anything else that poses a threat? Since the lock isn't as hard as it first looks, the deck needs ways to deal with things penetrating the lock. But that will probably mean fewer tutors and fewer cantrips which makes the combo harder to pull off. I think such a deck will struggle with consistancy problems. Or will it?

[Pizzatog]

Could fish use this, I wonder?

Maybe this could replace the null rod lock in fish. A deck running this, arcane lab, jewelry and disruption such as meddling mage? Gush, cloud of fairies, 1 mana instants can help activate it.

I dont know, when I saw this card, I inmediately thought of a more controllish build of fish. Kind of like the old countersliver decks. Counter everything until you can set this guy up... hell, a fish deck running both this and null rod sounds pretty evil to me.

[alban]

you had to restyle the deck, for the fish decks that now are played rarely ever play 3-4 spells a turn.

[orgcandman]

I have a question about this whole excursion into Erayo, and that is:
  * Why play a mediocre card to make a good card better?

Arcane Lab already wins the game vs. any deck you'd bring it in against. This won't really affect most T1 decks, as they simply won't give you the chance to have a storm count of 4 with that in play.  Also, if you're playing a deck that easily reaches a storm count of 4 with this guy in play, why not play a deck that can reach storm 9/10 and play tendrils based combo?

Just questions.

[Luiggi]

Pizzatog: I don't know if it's good enough to outright replace Null Rod in Fish... I could potentially see Fish running a few copies of this guy in addition to Null Rods, because they're just too good against a field of decks like SSB, ControlSlaver, etc. A further question is whether Fish could really take advantage of running Moxes and Black Lotus, so that cutting Null Rod could somehow be justified. I think that realistically it's not worth the tradeoff, since Fish still does much less broken things than just about any other deck out there.

Luiggi

[Luiggi]

I have a question about this whole excursion into Erayo, and that is:
  * Why play a mediocre card to make a good card better?

Arcane Lab already wins the game vs. any deck you'd bring it in against. This won't really affect most T1 decks, as they simply won't give you the chance to have a storm count of 4 with that in play.  Also, if you're playing a deck that easily reaches a storm count of 4 with this guy in play, why not play a deck that can reach storm 9/10 and play tendrils based combo?

Quoted for truthery, .

That's the first thing I wondered when I saw the card: if you're in a position to play this guy and flip him without your opponent putting up much of a fight why not just combo him out and win right then and there, rather than go through all that just to resolve a quasi-Arcane Lab and still have to win with dorks and manlands?

Luiggi

[xrizzo]

This won't really affect most T1 decks, as they simply won't give you the chance to have a storm count of 4 with that in play.

I playtested (obviously just a few games) this card in a couple different builds already -- and I must say, getting to 4 spells is not that difficult.  There are certain nuances with the card though.  (eg, 2 spells played this turn, i cast erayo (3rd spell) -- In response my opponent brainstorms (4th spell) and thus when erayo resolves he cannot flip because the 4th spell this turn is passed)

The two types of decks I played were:
Madness-style threshold UG deck
Traditional Grow deck (4x dryad, 3-4x erayo)

Erayo is not going to be a simple break, but he is certainly useful.  I played him out as my only spell, and my opponent unknowingly played like 8 spells so I got to flip him.  It was like having a trinisphere/xantid in play on my turn -- cause he then couldn't counter anything without me having a warning first. 

I love the flavor on the card, but have not settled on a way to break him best yet.

[leviat]

I playtested (obviously just a few games) this card in a couple different builds already -- and I must say, getting to 4 spells is not that difficult.  There are certain nuances with the card though.  (eg, 2 spells played this turn, i cast erayo (3rd spell) -- In response my opponent brainstorms (4th spell) and thus when erayo resolves he cannot flip because the 4th spell this turn is passed)

Then you playtested incorrectly, YOU have to be the one to play four spells. The spells your opponent has cast do not count. -- Oops, wrong. I suck 

As was mentioned, this is obviously not worth including in a storm combo deck, and with Arcane Laboratory, you end up creating a deck that is designed to hurt itself (a deck with cantrips that locks by only playing one spell a turn?). It IS a pretty hard lock, but very situational (play card A, then meeting condition B, finally play card C).

I would see this guy being a fun addition into a Grow style deck where he helps out with Grow's low number of actual HARD counters.

[LizardCZ]

Then you playtested incorrectly, YOU have to be the one to play four spells. The spells your opponent has cast do not count.

The text of the card that can be seen in the Saviors FAQ is as follow:

1U  Legendary Creature -- Moonfolk Monk  1/1
Flying
Whenever the fourth spell of a turn is played, flip Erayo, Soratami Ascendant.
-----
Erayo's Essence
Legendary Enchantment
Whenever an opponent plays a spell for the first time in a turn, counter that spell.


The ability counts the spells played by both you and your opponent.
Erayo's Essence have also received errata. The former wording was weird (how was supposed to work?)

[xrizzo]

Then you playtested incorrectly, YOU have to be the one to play four spells. The spells your opponent has cast do not count.

I believe YOU are mistaken here... I checked many times for official wordings before I spent any time playtesting.

I would see this guy being a fun addition into a Grow style deck where he helps out with Grow's low number of actual HARD counters.

At least we agree here.

[Pizzatog]

Good grief, the new version of the card certainly is playable! My team and I are going to start testing it in gro and fish variants.... I'll post results in a few days. I really dont think a deck focused on the arcane lab combo is good at all. In t1 a combo should outright win the game. Even so, this card might help out one of many prision type decks.... (stasis anyone?  )

[stephen3200]

I think It may fill the same space as used by xantid swarm, in strom decks, the only difference being the extra 1  generc mana in its casting cost, and if you're playing jewelry in any case its not too much harder to castand while it does leave you with less mana to go off, it creates a situation where you're opponent may feel forced to counter a piece of your combo, before it would be most effective.

It also only counters the first spell the opponent plays each turn so you would be able to use the Arcane laboratory lock, HOWEVER, to cast the lab and the erayo would cause bad synergy, becuase the erayo tries to get you to play cheaper small effect spells whilst the laboratory tries to urge you to play more game breaking spells. It could work in fish though, as you only need to coutner 2 spells your opponent plays to flip this card.

[leviat]

I believe YOU are mistaken here... I checked many times for official wordings before I spent any time playtesting.

So I am. My apologies; that'll teach me for not reading the FAQ and just the spoilers. I was intrigued by the card before, now I'm very interested in its possibilities.

[Machinus]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned fish? This card is broken in fish. Cloud of Faeries makes this card insane.

[49 Cents]

Could fish use this, I wonder?

Maybe this could replace the null rod lock in fish. A deck running this, arcane lab, jewelry and disruption such as meddling mage? Gush, cloud of fairies, 1 mana instants can help activate it.

I dont know, when I saw this card, I inmediately thought of a more controllish build of fish. Kind of like the old countersliver decks. Counter everything until you can set this guy up... hell, a fish deck running both this and null rod sounds pretty evil to me.

This was actually what I was thinking when I saw the card.. Getting the card to flip isn't hard at all and since you can flip in response to hate it's pretty good. Our team is going to try the card aswell, Because It's yet another piece of Fish's puzzle..

Thus I don't think that you'll need Arcane lab AND this card, because lab on it self is just good.

Greetz,

Hugo

[Edit] @ Machinus: It HAS been mentioned, see above by Pizzatog.. And stop posting while I type [/Edit]

[Imsomniac101]

This card will be absolutely sick in Gro and BirdShit. Looks like SoK actually has some playable cards.

I have a rules question. Say I have Erayo (unflipped in play). it is my opponents turn and he plays Ancestral Recall, I play Misdirection, my opponent plays Force of Will, I play Daze. Assuming that no other cards go on the stack, what happens? Does Ancestral Recall get countered? What if my opponent plays something else on the stack?

[Dzy]

I have a rules question. Say I have Erayo (unflipped in play). it is my opponents turn and he plays Ancestral Recall, I play Misdirection, my opponent plays Force of Will, I play Daze. Assuming that no other cards go on the stack, what happens? Does Ancestral Recall get countered? What if my opponent plays something else on the stack?

1U  Legendary Creature -- Moonfolk Monk  1/1
Flying
Whenever the fourth spell of a turn is played, flip Erayo, Soratami Ascendant.
-----
Erayo's Essence
Legendary Enchantment
Whenever an opponent plays a spell for the first time in a turn, counter that spell.

It is a triggered ability that will only trigger when the spell is actually played, not already on the stack, that is just like adding counters to chalice of the void in response to a spell won't work either, because it checks when it is played.

[BigMac]

Perhaps a stupid thought, but did anybody consider it to be an asset for a mono blue stasis deck. It will be on my magic to do list in the comming months.

[Glix]

I posted this idea quite a while ago on the Newbie board, you thief 

When I originally saw the card, I thought along the lines of fish, as it goes along with the overall gameplan quite well.  However, it may be more powerful in a grow deck.  Even without the Lab it is an extreemly powerful ability that will almost always win you the game by itself.  If you do want the combolicious lab play, Rule of Law can also fill in, if necessary, although I doubt it.  The main problem I found with my early versions is that if you play lab first, Erayo is just a crappy version of Cloud of Faeries withoug cycling or the untap.  Against combo this usually doesn't matter, but against decks that function fine under lab, it gives you an unplayable card most of the game, which hurts the decks design.  It's legendary status also hurts, as your opponant can deal with them one at a time.

[GoblinDirigible]

Gro is really the only deck the card would work in.  An Arcane Lab deck wouldn't be built to cast four spells in the same turn, and god knows fish can't.  The card isn't really a great disruption element for Storm combo, because the other player will just burn a brainstorm and counter your threat.  It *is* a great card, however, just for slowing down another player's strategy, and only time will tell how good it is at that (though I'd imagine it's amazing).  A Gro style deck would really be able to abuse all of the aspects of this card, wether that pushes Gro into the playable category-  I guess we'll see

[Starke of Rath]

the card could be played in the deck with sensei's divining top and future sight, but then again, that deck won't play arcane laboratory for a lock

[CCClark]

Well, I picked up a couple today and threw together a version of the old Forbidian.   I still went after the Arcane lock just because I like stuff like that.    Local tournament, but it did amazingly well.   19 people.   Considering the rest of the deck I wasn't real surprised, but it was nice to see a hard lock get in there and make people scoop.  Not bad with the other hard lock of ophie + lab + forbid

If you're curious and want to try it the deck list is easy.   I will post again when I think it's had some sufficient testing.
It's real rough so far so I won't go into much detail.

Add blue restricted stuff and goodies.   ie..  ancestral, walk, fof, mystical, brainstorm, impulse, FOW, drains,  blah blah
4x Ophies
4x Lightning bolt.
4x forbid
3x urza's rage (we have a lot of slaver here and I like uncounterable stuff. replace as you see fit)
4x Miners
2x shamans
3x labs
land/ fetches  blah blah

Simple enough?

I really didn't expect too aweful much out of it, but it did extremely well.   Nothing like the shaman/miner beatdown.    I'll figure out better replacements later.  It was an old decklist I just modified to throw it together. 

Give this a shot, a double hard lock in the deck is pretty nasty.   

[EnialisLiadon]

My friend is testing it in TPS...I don't know his results, but he thinks it could be good.  I like Erayo mostly in gro; it's just awesome.

[Skynyrd]

If you're playing Fish, Erayo should be an automatic include in any metagame featuring a large number of Stax, Fish, Slaver or Oath decks. It's quite terrible against Storm combo, so if you play against alot of it, Erayo might only have a home in your sideboard. Testing has shown that it's incredibly easy to flip Erayo in a fish build featuring Daze and Force. Also, our Fish build uses Moxen, Lotus and Null Rod. If you can't use them for mana late game, you can wait to play them until you need to flip Erayo. It's an excellent disruption card, forcing decks to waste spells to attempt to play the ones that count. This leaves them with less mana available to pay your Daze or fight a counter war. I'll post a list of the deck we put it in later.

[MrZuccinniHead]

i believe EnialisLiadon was talking about me when he mentioned his friend.  Here's what this card does in TPS...

Play Ritual/brainstorm
Play the flipper
Play a bomb

Now what happens here is this...they can counter your bomb, but your man WILL flip meaning a win next turn provided you have at least one business spell.  If they do not counter the bomb, you can go off anyway and he will flip anyway if u stall.

You can also go...topdeck a rebuild...play eot and replay all your moxen with flipper in play and you set-up the win next turn.

I should also mention the token "It also pitches to Force of will^TM!"  Xantid does not do that.  This card should probably be palyed as a two-of to work that way it does not clog your hand.

I have done testing as he said, but it has minimal.  Results are positive, but it's too early to tell if that slot is better used for frantic search/gifts.