Back to Basics vs Blood Moon

[vartemis]

I did a search of the forums and couldn't find this topic. Which is better and why in an Oath deck?

Back to Basics

Pros:
-Totally shuts down nonbasics after first tapping
-single blue in spell

Cons:
-Opponents still get to activate nonbasic once
-Does not stop fetch

Blood Moon

Pros:
-Nonbasics cannot be used
-shuts down fetches
-no red spell can destroy it (that i can think of)

Cons:
-Stops Orchard
-Stops my fetches
-off color


If anyone can think of any other pros cons or which to run over the other, I would greatly appreciate the insight.  I am thinking that Blood Moons would be better suited in a workshop heavy format.

j

[Luiggi]

I'm not sure that running either one of them in Oath is a particularly good idea, since they both ruin your deck.

Blood Moon shuts off your Orchards completely, meaning you wouldn't be able to make any tokens for your opponent, not allowing you to activate your Oath unless he plays a creature... This also means that without a Mox Emerald or basic Forest in your deck and a fetchland capable of finding it you wouldn't be able to actually cast your Oath of Druids, since your Tropical Islands/Orchards would be Mountains... In short, Blood Moon is an awful idea in this deck.

Back to Basics, while slightly better than Blood Moon in an Oath deck, is still terrible. Again, it only gives you one use out of your Orchards, so if your opponent has some way of getting rid of the Orchard token (Goblin Bombardment, Spawning Pit, etc.) then you can't activate your Oath at all, short of him laying a creature. You also only get one use out of your Tropicals.

I would've guessed that these are two great cards against Oath, not as a part of Oath...

Luiggi

[Freelancer]

I'm not sure that running either one of them in Oath is a particularly good idea, since they both ruin your deck.

Blood Moon shuts off your Orchards completely, meaning you wouldn't be able to make any tokens for your opponent, not allowing you to activate your Oath unless he plays a creature... This also means that without a Mox Emerald or basic Forest in your deck and a fetchland capable of finding it you wouldn't be able to actually cast your Oath of Druids, since your Tropical Islands/Orchards would be Mountains... In short, Blood Moon is an awful idea in this deck.

Back to Basics, while slightly better than Blood Moon in an Oath deck, is still terrible. Again, it only gives you one use out of your Orchards, so if your opponent has some way of getting rid of the Orchard token (Goblin Bombardment, Spawning Pit, etc.) then you can't activate your Oath at all, short of him laying a creature. You also only get one use out of your Tropicals.

I would've guessed that these are two great cards against Oath, not as a part of Oath...

Luiggi

Well you are absolutely correct with your assessment that blood moon is absolutely horrible in oath, Back to basics however has its uses in the sideboard. In specific to deal with certain non-basic hosers or bazaar of bagdad or heavy non-basic lands, anything that can permanently deal with your tokens should be taken care of by bounce. Anyway you don't see many people play with cards that can deal with the tokens, the oath is the main target (and for good reason).

I am talking about the meandeck variant here though, for the multicoloured one back to basics is in general a bad idea.


You are correct though that in no way either one of these enchantments should be maindeck, because they shut down the decks main strategy (instead of complementing it).

[Luiggi]

Anyway you don't see many people play with cards that can deal with the tokens, the oath is the main target (and for good reason).

Not quite sure about this, as I've seen lots of Goblin Bombardments and Spawning Pits in sideboards for Control-Slaver and SSB, since those decks don't really have any enchantment removal, to speak of.

Luiggi

[vartemis]

Ok, great. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for.  I was wondering why the meandeck version was runnin back to basics.   I can see your point about blood moon being worse.  I already happen to have a playset of B2B, and now I don't have to  waste time picking up blood moons which I don't need right now.

Thanks for your feedback,

j

[Freelancer]

Not quite sure about this, as I've seen lots of Goblin Bombardments and Spawning Pits in sideboards for Control-Slaver and SSB, since those decks don't really have any enchantment removal, to speak of.

Thats all very nice and all, but those aren't the decks you should be siding in back to basics.

Not to mention that pits and bombardments are quite happy if you give them more spirits to eat.

Ok, great. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for.  I was wondering why the meandeck version was runnin back to basics.   I can see your point about blood moon being worse.  I already happen to have a playset of B2B, and now I don't have to  waste time picking up blood moons which I don't need right now.[/quote

No Problem.


To summarize the reasons to run back to basics in the sideboard (reread my post, it didn't seem as clear as I wanted it to):
1) Shuts down bazaar of bagdad.
2) Murders decks with a lot of non-basics
3) Is very solid against fish, birdsh*t and landstill.
4) Prevents random losses to maze of ith (if you don't run wastelands/strip mine)

Disadvantages:
1) Makes orchard a one time trick
2) Can't be run in a multicoloured variant

This is of course assuming you don't sideboard them in the wrong matchups.

[Luiggi]

Thats all very nice and all, but those aren't the decks you should be siding in back to basics.

My point was that in some of the most competitive decks in the format people don't side in enchantment removal against Oath, but rather ways to deal with the Spirit tokens, hence the Spawning Pits and Bombardments. You had said initially that "you don't see many people play with cards that can deal with the tokens, the oath is the main target", and hence my example, to disprove that.

Luiggi

[VarienTanafres]

I'd prefer to use to Back to Basics over Blood Moon. The non-basics from Blood Moon can be used as generic mana, while Back to Basics shuts down any mana production. That and Drains go better with Basics then Blood Moon. (Like Ophidian over Shadwmage Infiltrator sorta deal)

[Starke of Rath]

I'd never run Blood moon nor Back to Basics in oath, since you can play wastelands to destroy your opponent's land, instead of screwing yourself with mountain orchard or only-once-in-use-orchards

[Freelancer]

My point was that in some of the most competitive decks in the format people don't side in enchantment removal against Oath, but rather ways to deal with the Spirit tokens, hence the Spawning Pits and Bombardments. You had said initially that "you don't see many people play with cards that can deal with the tokens, the oath is the main target", and hence my example, to disprove that.

[/quote

Well I haven't seen many players run these, but its hardly a big deal.