Single Card Discussion: Ideas Unbound

[Nevroz]

I've been looking at this card in the spoiler for some time now, and have been surprised to see no
mention of it here on TMD.

Ideas Unbound -- UU
Sorcery -- Arcane
Draw three cards. Discard three cards at end of turn.

While certainly sub-par in most forms of control decks, this looks to be a killer storm-based combo card,
drawing 3 with a minimal drawback for the archetype at that cost seems perfect.

The double blue is tough, but that's really strong draw, so in the right deck it should be able to pay for
itself. And even if the current combo decks aren't blue enough to support it perhaps one could be built
with a stronger blue focus.

So, what does the community think? Am I overvaluing this card? Is the double blue too hard to work with?
Are there other archetypes that could benefit from this (Uba Stax?, Tog?) 

[Lou]

I can see this card being useful in a similar fashion as TFK.  Discarding the cards and then declaring madness is certainly an option, or dumping artifacts for Welder targets.  I think it also has some value in the couple of decks that are running Recoup, such as Gifts/Belcher and various TPS builds.  The fact that it is a sorcery certainly hurts it though, but that really doesn't matter if you are going to win on the turn you cast it.

[Imsomniac101]

Dude..... TFK is just plain superior....in any deck.

The only decks that can really afford double blue are control decks and even then they don't want to give up an opening for drain mana. TFK gains you card advantage and its much easier to cast. TFK is an instant and can be cast EOT leaving two islands up for drain mana.

[rozetta]

In a High Tide or Academy-reliant combo deck, this might not be too bad, since it has a cheaper casting cost and easier drawback than, say, Meditate and it doesn't have the mirror-match drawback of AK. It can also support Disrupting Shoal wrt countering Mana Drains, etc. should the deck run a higher complement of counter magic. I could envision some U-heavy contol-combo deck perhaps making use of these as fuel for eventually going off.

[Nevroz]

Dude..... TFK is just plain superior....in any deck.

I really don't see how that must be true -- for one less total mana you net
one or two more cards with ideas unbound. Sure, double blue is rough, and
the drawback limits the types of decks it can be played in, but it's still exceedingly
efficient card advantage so i've got to imagine it can find a home.

Given that combo lives and dies on finding 'one more card' or 'one more mana'
this is a sufficiently strong card that I don't beleive should be dismissed purely
on its double blue cost.

[49 Cents]

Dude..... TFK is just plain superior....in any deck.

I really don't see how that must be true -- for one less total mana you net
one or two more cards with ideas unbound. Sure, double blue is rough, and
the drawback limits the types of decks it can be played in, but it's still exceedingly
efficient card advantage so I've got to imagine it can find a home.

Yeah, but. TfK could give cardadvantage by discarding just one artifact, this card does not..
And the fact that it costs UU doesn't make it easier. With thirst, if you have UU you just pass and see if they play anything you can drain, and if not, you play TfK End of turn.

Thirst is also great to Drain into. Ideas is not. Overall I would say Thirst is superior to Ideas in decks with drain, But Ideas will get a whole different use anyways..

[Nevroz]

In a deck where this is good, it would always give card advantage.
If you get to the end of the turn after casting this without either,
winning or emptying your hand, you've _lost_ cards. As a straight
up card quality engine it is terrible, making it's lack of synergy with
drain based decks that like to hold cards not matter -- it won't go
there.

My argument was with the statement that TFK is always better,
as they aren't even the same type of card, and certainly don't
compete for space in the same decks. TFK is not brutally efficient
enough for combo, but this card _might_ be.

[Eandori]

TFK is a great card, but I would not really compare the two.  It's a bad comparison.

Why?

Because you would not put them into similar decks!  They work differently, so it's not a strait comparison.  TFK gets you two cards in hand at most that turn.  Ideas gets you 3 to use until end of turn.  THAT IS DIFFERENT.

TFK costs 3 mana, Ideas costs 2 THAT is also different.

In a deck where you want cards in your GY, or a deck where as soon as you draw cards you can play them, I would say this is a better card then TFK.  For example, a Kobold Clamp deck.  As soon as I draw those 2 Kobolds and 1 more skullclamp, I will just cast them!

[mr_rogers]

I have to agree with Nervoz and Eandori that you would not run Idea's Unbound in the same decks.  The card is much better suited to combo or decks like Madness and Birdshit.  TFK is bad in Ritual based combo decks but Ideas Unbound could be great costing one mana less and netting you three cards till the end of turn.  Also in Ritual combo you are trying to go off in one turn usually, where as in Drain based decks you tend to setup your kill over multiple turns so you can afford to spend three mana on a TFk because you have more time.  So Ideas is not a bad card in the right type of deck.  I would not use it in any Drain based deck or any Welder deck because TFK has much better synergy with those style decks.

[BigMac]

I can see this card work well in madness and dragon.

Even in a Uba mask deck this could be a killer card.

But in combo i think it is not good enough. getting 3 cards, not go off, having to discard. If you play a draw spell its use it to generate cardadvantage, not disadvantage. (play 1, draw 3, discard 3 so lose 4) Besides, chances of getting double U when going off are limited.

Another deck it could be good in is affinity. As you can pretty much play every spell anyway and it can give you an enourmous speedboost.

So in short, a deck build to make the best use of this card and it will see play. Otherwise it is not worth including it into your deck.

[GoblinDirigible]

double blue is very difficult to get for the combo decks that would otherwise abuse it.  In order for the card to really work, you need a manabase that can produce blue consistantly, and cards you don't mind discarding EOT, or the ability to empty your hand every turn.  The only decks out there right now that fit the bill are Bazaar lists, more CA than Dragon.  It might be okay in a madness list, but the mana is tough to get there.

[mr_rogers]

I've been testing with combo much more lately and I have yet to have a problem getting tow blue anytime I want it.  The combo I would it in are decks like MeanDeath and SX, where you try to go off in the first or second turn of the game.  The mana base to some Ritual based combo decks can be modified to running four Orchards or Cities to help guarantee that two blue is not a problem. 

As far as madness, I've also never had a problem getting plenty of blue mana in that deck either.  The fetch lands should provide you with all the blue you need to cast Ideas Unbound everytime.  My only concern in Madness is what to take out for Ideas Unbound and the fact that the card is a sorcery. 

Well I might proxy up a deck or two and do some testing with the card.  I'll post my findings later.

[Starke of Rath]

Ideas unbound in madness?

Well, we've already got careful study for one mana less and with the advantages that, when you play anger, you can play creatures before you combat phase with madness. The only reason to play ideas unbound in madness is whenever your game-winning strategy relies on wild mongrel and discard all cards on him.

But the only good results i get with madness is when in play force of will and circular logic.

I will test the card, but prefer careful study already, i even prefer frantic search above this card

[xtor]

The reason wizards made tfk an instant was because in development they decided to catagorize it as "card filtering" as opposed to "mass card draw".  If you don't have an artifact, you net no cards.  This card will, in any situation, gain you more card advantage than tfk in the short run.  I dont think that these two cards ae really comparable tho.  If ideas is used, it wont be as a replacement for tfk (for the reasons mentioned in this thread)  it will be used by combo or aggro decks that are going to drop their hand anyway and wont have to discard at end of turn. (in my opinion)