Oath

[Shade]

Okay, admittedly, I do not currently own a set of Drains.  I just finished building my relatively unpowered Oath deck (the only Power in it is a lone Recall) and have been playtesting with 4 proxy Drains before deciding to throw down $350-400 on a set of the real thing.  The thing is, I'm starting to wonder if that $$$ wouldn't just be better spent on a Sapphire or something.  The deck just seems marginally, if any, better with Drains in place of plain old vanilla Counterspells.  Mostly, I tend to burn with the excess mana, and it's difficult to play around because you typically don't want to be casting any non-Oath spells during your turn.  It feels like it has bad synergy with the rest of the deck.

For the record, here is my decklist:

1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
2 Impulse
4 Intuition

4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
7 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
1 Ancient Hydra
2 Echoing Truth
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
2 Misdirection
2 Naturalize
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
2 Stifle

So, am I missing something here concerning Drains in Oath, or is my deck just not tailored properly to abusing them?  Am I just having bad luck when burning so much?  Should I play the deck more aggressively to take advantage of the extra main phase mana?

[psu42]

well, well...my first post on something i feel i can contribute to possibly....

I have also been wondering on the true value of Mana Drain in Oath. My build that I have been toying with for months runs Counterspell as I feel it is general in your best interest.  With Drain mana I noticed that more likely than not I am just taking mana burn as opposed to really turning the Mana Drain into a big momentum swing (this coupled with damage from spirit tokens can really limit you). The best hope you have is that maybe you Drain something and are holding Wish/Intuition, but then who really likes tapping blue mana sources on their turn.

I'd also like to point out that unlike your build i run 10 proxy with lotus/moxes as opposed to far too many Islands.

[Shade]

well, well...my first post on something i feel i can contribute to possibly....

I have also been wondering on the true value of Mana Drain in Oath. My build that I have been toying with for months runs Counterspell as I feel it is general in your best interest.  With Drain mana I noticed that more likely than not I am just taking mana burn as opposed to really turning the Mana Drain into a big momentum swing (this coupled with damage from spirit tokens can really limit you). The best hope you have is that maybe you Drain something and are holding Wish/Intuition, but then who really likes tapping blue mana sources on their turn.

I'd also like to point out that unlike your build i run 10 proxy with lotus/moxes as opposed to far too many Islands.

The only "expensive" things that you're likely to cast in the deck are Intuitions and CWishes, all sitting at 3 mana each.  Only 2 of those 3 mana are colorless, and like you said, who wants to use blue mana on their main turn?  Too risky to tap out for the rare possiblity of playing either of those and not needing a counter or two the following turn.

As far as my build, it is for a proxyless environment.  In a 10-proxy, I would add Lotus, 5 Moxen, and Walk.

[Khahan]

Mana drain most definitely does not need to be in Oath (assume we are talking about the creature-beatdown version).
I've been playtesting Oath for a few months w/out mana drain (ok, I have 1 in it, but its main purpose is simply extra countermagic).

If you take mana drain out, you can knock the Intuition count down to 2.  With intuition down to 2 and with mana drain out for mana accel, you can cut accumulated knowledge completely.

I replaced the AK's with Serum Visions.  The intuitions got replaced with Sensei's Divining top.
The mana drains went to straight counterspells.
If you can drain then you can counter.  And if you don't have mana sinks, then you'd rather just counter.

I just took 16 at SCG Richmond over the week with a 5-2 record.

My 2 losses came against very good players: Iamfishman (2 land belcher) and Smmemen (stax variant). Both simply outplayed me.  (though some of ray's draws made outplaying much easier, but then again, that shows great deck construction, too).

Considering Ray beat me with belcher and I went on to beat 3 other belcher decks, I'd say that's a good record against that match up.
But in both wins and losses, there was not a single game where I said, "Ohh, I wish I had mana drain online so I could cast intuition/AK"   
Don't get me wrong. That mana can be helpful in hardcasting one of your creatures if you  happen to draw it. There are other uses aside from Intuition/AK. But Oath can stall a game out and build the mana base to hardcast if needed.

[Tristal]

There are very few matches in which the mana burn from a Drain will matter too much.  There are more matches where Drain ->Intuition -> AK wins the game.  QED.

[Khahan]

There are very few matches in which the mana burn from a Drain will matter too much.  There are more matches where Drain ->Intuition -> AK wins the game.  QED.

When I Intuition with Oath, I'm doing it for 1 of 2 reasons:

1) I have an orchard, but not an oath
2) I have an oath but not an orchard

Even when I ran mana drain/intuition in Oath, more often than not I found myself going for 1 of those 2 cards rather than for an AK so I could draw 3 and hope I got one of them.
I think I intuitioned up 3x FoW more often than AK during play testing.
Then I decided to take my deck to what I thought was a 5 proxie tourney. So the DRAINS went out and with it the AK's and 1/2 the intuitions. Guess what...the deck was just as reliable and just as efficient.

I think the question is a little mis-leading: Does mana drain belong in oath? Most certainly. If you build your oath deck with mana drain mind, it belongs there and will serve its purpose quite well.  But does it have to be in oath?   Most definitely not. Oath can function just fine w/out it.

I think the bigger question for Oath, though is: Should you run 3 creatures or 2?

[Shade]

There are very few matches in which the mana burn from a Drain will matter too much.  There are more matches where Drain ->Intuition -> AK wins the game.  QED.

When I Intuition with Oath, I'm doing it for 1 of 2 reasons:

1) I have an orchard, but not an oath
2) I have an oath but not an orchard

Even when I ran mana drain/intuition in Oath, more often than not I found myself going for 1 of those 2 cards rather than for an AK so I could draw 3 and hope I got one of them.
I think I intuitioned up 3x FoW more often than AK during play testing.
Then I decided to take my deck to what I thought was a 5 proxie tourney. So the oaths went out and with it the AK's and 1/2 the intuitions. Guess what...the deck was just as reliable and just as efficient.

I think the question is a little mis-leading: Does mana drain belong in oath? Most certainly. If you build your oath deck with mana drain mind, it belongs there and will serve its purpose quite well.  But does it have to be in oath?   Most definitely not. Oath can function just fine w/out it.

I think the bigger question for Oath, though is: Should you run 3 creatures or 2?

I hope you mean the DRAINS went out, not the OATHS.

Anyway, I have cut the CWishes from my MD.  They're just too slow, and they're basically there for Platinum Angel anyway, so I just went with 1 Echoing Truth and 1 Naturalize instead.  As far as the # of creatures, I went with 3, adding a Platinum Angel of my own to the maindeck.  It has been a godsend for me against aggro decks so far today.

[Khahan]

Shade, you might want to consider going Echoing Truth---> Rushing River.
Chalice for 2 shuts you down when your win condition is a 2 and your artifact hate is also a 2.

[Shade]

Okay, I know I've made a million-and-one Oath topics around here, but what can I say?  I love the deck.

I finally have what I believe is my final version of the deck, barring Power.  But, I want to put it up for cirtique once more so I can be sure there is nothing I have forgotten about.  The SB is constructed mostly to battle Control Slaver, as my field is that, aggro, and mono-blue control.

1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Platinum Angel (Thought about Living Wish here, but this has been a godsend so far.  What's one extra turn if you're invincible? )
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
2 Impulse
4 Intuition

4 Counterspell/Mana Drain (still debating this one; maybe a 2/2 split?)
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
1 Ancient Hydra
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
2 Misdirection
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Stifle

Well...there it is.  Is it solid enough, or should I change anything?  The only thing I'm torn on is the 2 CWishes, and maybe Platinum Angel vs. Living Wish.  The Wish is a sorcery, but maybe with Drain mana...I dunno.  I definitely feel I need a 3rd creature, though, and Hydra is too conditional to MD.

[Ben Kossman]

I kind of like Living Wish over Cunning Wish because of it's versatility and the fact that it let's you grab an Orchard in a pinch.
Other than that I would think about running one or two Eternal Witness's main. Also you could repalce Impulse with a Deep
Analysis and a Ray of Revelation to win the Mirror. Other than that it's pretty tight, good luck.

[Null Rob]

To be honest, I don't like the idea of Living Wish at all.  It's slow to begin with, AND you'd need to hold a brainstorm to put the creature back into the library to be oathed up, which makes it take another turn to get it into play.  Also, to Living Wish for an Orchard is just terrible, because that means you're not running 4 of them maindeck.  It is also a SEVERE tempo loss, and against many of the better decks in the format you simply can't get away with tapping out to cast a Living Wish during your mainphase on turn 2 or 3.  The Platinum Angel is better than the Wish if you insist on 3 win conditions.  I also think the Mox Diamond is a little overkill.  It is never a good draw: if it's in your opening hand, it's the same as if you had drawn one less card.  If you draw it after turn 2-3, it is complete garbage because you (ideally) won't still have 2 lands in hand to play one and discard the other.  Increasing the chances of a turn 1 oath by a little bit is not worth playing a card that is almost always dead.  I think that slot would be MUCH better as a 3rd trop or a 5th fetch or basic island.  As far as Drain vs. counterspell, that is no question.  Without power (moxen + lotus), you need a way of getting massive amounts of colorless mana to play Intuition/AK or to wish for and cast an answer.  And as far as the mana burn issue goes, if you end up taking 3-5 points in a game once in a while it will almost never matter because your clock is just so fast.  So, 4 Drain, no Counterspell.  I would also think about cutting 1 mana leak and 1 intuition for 2 misdirections, which are amazing against control mirrors.  You really don't need 4 intuitions cause, honestly, the second, third, and fourth ones arent usually very productive in a deck like Oath.  2 Misdirections give you all but guaranteed counter backup, and most of the time DOUBLE counter backup, in order to make sure an early Oath resolves against Slaver, SSB, Sensei, Mono-U (what should be your easiest matchup) or any of the other drain powered decks out there.  Ray of Revelations belong in the sideboard to be Wished for, not clogging up precious slots in a tight decklist like Oath.

[E Face]

You say you are debating Counterspell vs. Mana Drain, but your deck runs good Mana Drain fueled cards such as Intuition, Cunning Wish, AK's and Rack and Ruin from the board. At SCGP9 Richmond this past weekend I played one Crucible of Worlds maindeck along with 3 Chalice of the Void, but I have a tight budget so I couldn't afford to play with Drains, so all day i was wishing I had them to fuel out goodness... So from what experiences I had at this past Richmond, I think that the Drains would've won me at least one match that I can remember. And just by going with that, I think that Drains are superior to Counterspell. I actually like Mana Leak over Counterspell, because any mox and blue land gives you Mana Leak turn one.

[Khahan]

If you are running 4x Intuition and wish to use Cunning Wish, there is no doubt you should run 4 drains.
Also, main deck the hydra. There is nothing situational about him.
A) There are still so many welder decks out there, that in most games he's worth while
2) In the mirror, he's great for creature control. Ping your spirit tokens (that you got from your opponents orchards) and keep your creature count belong his. With oath popping up more than once in most tournaments, again, he's worthwhile against a lot of decks
III)  He kills platinum angels.
C) Barring a lack of creatures on your opponents side, he is a 5/1 beater that can hit for 5-10 points in 1 turn and can act as yet another mana drain sink.

[the boogie man]

I have found the mana drains to be really awsome in the deck, but mine is constructed very differently. here is my list.

4 oaths
1 akroma
1 spirit
1 blessing

3 intuition
4 ak
4 brainstorm
1 skeletal scrying
1 ancestral recal
2 cunning wish
1 time walk
1 demonic tutor
1 yawgmoth's will

4 force of will
4 mana drain
4 duress

4 orchards
2 polluted delta
2 flooded strand
3 island
1 underground sea
1 volcanic island
1 tropical island
1 strip mine
3 wasteland

mox jet, sapphire, emerald, ruby.
lotus

sb:
1 platz
1 ancient hydra
1 pristine angel
3 arcane lab
2 ground seal
1 vamp tutor
2 rack ruin
2 rebs
1 naturalize

I want to find extra room for the last mox, and I think Ill cut the scrying maindeck, as the wishes can be used for more draw. but either way, you can use the drain mana to get an insane card advantage boost, or play oaths plus whatever. it also helps to hardcast threats. the cunning wish allows you to play spirit, which speeds up your win, and the wishes help a lot, especially with the rebs and racks.

[Ben Kossman]

I think Mana Drain is definitely better than Counterspell if you've got to choose.

[Shade]

One thing I've been debating lately is adding Pithing Needle to the SB.  I'd like to run 3 copies so I can Intuition for it if need be.  Should I do this, and how should I modify the SB to fit it?  Cut REB, maybe?

[oldbsturgeon]

I think your list is what Khahan was taliking about earlier. You have a whole lot more sinks than just intuition/AK and so it seems only logical to add them to the main. However check out his list he played at Richmond. He really didnt have any sinks to speak of, so they weren't needed. I know I played him in round 7.
In fact his drainless oath has inspired me to try my own out to see how it will work.

[GoblinDirigible]

I think the question is a little mis-leading: Does mana drain belong in oath? Most certainly. If you build your oath deck with mana drain mind, it belongs there and will serve its purpose quite well.  But does it have to be in oath?   Most definitely not. Oath can function just fine w/out it.

Are you allowed to play a sub-optimal list? sure you are.  Nobody's stopping you from playing Trash for Treasure over Goblin Welder in Control Slaver either.  If you're just asking the community's permission on wether or not you can play a suppar list, you really shouldn't have bothered- most of us would be happy to play against it.  If you're interested in what's optimal (which is really the only reason you should be posting in the first place) then Mana Drain has it by far.  You could build a version of Oath that doesn't want Mana Drains, in theory, but that list with that many sinks most definitely does.  For the record, if you reworked the list so that Mana Drain wasn't solid, running something like Duress or Daze would probably be a lot better in that slot than Counterspell.

[Khahan]

I think the question is a little mis-leading: Does mana drain belong in oath? Most certainly. If you build your oath deck with mana drain mind, it belongs there and will serve its purpose quite well.  But does it have to be in oath?   Most definitely not. Oath can function just fine w/out it.

Are you allowed to play a sub-optimal list? sure you are.  Nobody's stopping you from playing Trash for Treasure over Goblin Welder in Control Slaver either.  If you're just asking the community's permission on wether or not you can play a suppar list, you really shouldn't have bothered- most of us would be happy to play against it.  If you're interested in what's optimal (which is really the only reason you should be posting in the first place) then Mana Drain has it by far.  You could build a version of Oath that doesn't want Mana Drains, in theory, but that list with that many sinks most definitely does.  For the record, if you reworked the list so that Mana Drain wasn't solid, running something like Duress or Daze would probably be a lot better in that slot than Counterspell.

Ahh, I see. Now we are back to the famous, "Its a broken card, therefore anything else is sub-optimal," argument.   For one, I never said mana drain  is bad for oath. In fact I said very clearly it should go into Oath (for example the meandeck version).

However, I did not, as you  put it, rework the list so that mana drain wasn't solid. I didn't have mana drains or proxie slots for them. I didn't rework the list to keep mana drain from working. Since I didn't have them to begin with, I reworked the list to make the deck work.

And you know what...I believe I succeeded.  I don't believe I succeeded because I achieved moderate success in 1 tournament.  I believe I succeeded because I playtested the deck and found it to be solid.  I took it to a tournament and put in a solid showing. And, most importantly, if I go to another tournament again, I'd play the same basic list as before and feel very confident of a solid chance at top 8.

The lists being bandied about on this thread most definitely DO need drain.  You know it and I know it. But that does not mean that if you don't have drains you can't play Oath.  It just means that while the structure of the deck is basically the same and the deck plays the same, the flesh and muscle which holds it all together need adjusted.

[GoblinDirigible]

The lists being bandied about on this thread most definitely DO need drain.  You know it and I know it. But that does not mean that if you don't have drains you can't play Oath.  It just means that while the structure of the deck is basically the same and the deck plays the same, the flesh and muscle which holds it all together need adjusted.

Oh, I definitely agree with that.  It's definitely possible to put together a deck you can win events with without Drains, it just takes a little tuning.  However, I feel that the optimal builds of a Control-based Oath deck are going to include them, and that anyone reading this thread should realize that a Counterspell build isn't ideal.

[Shade]

What is a sample decklist for a Drainless Oath?  For those who have played both versions, does one seem to be strictly superior to the other?

[Shade]

Alright, I like my maindeck, but am really pondering what to run in the side.

First off, the 3 main SB creatures:

1 Ancient Hydra
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Pristine Angel

I see no reason to remove any of these, so that leaves me with 12 slots.  With those, the top candidates are:

Ground Seal
Misdirection
Pithing Needle
Rack and Ruin
Red Elemental Blast
Stifle

That's 6 cards I'd like to run in some denomination.  But we'll have to figure that some of the cards aren't worth running any less than 3-4 of (REB and Needle, most notably).  I think 2 MisDs is plenty with the other countermagic available.  I like the idea of running 1-2 Stifles to deal with Storm-based decks.  The rest of the side I want to use to hose Control Slaver.  So, let's say I go with:

2 Misdirection
1 Stifle

That leaves 9 slots in the side.  I'd like to run three 3-ofs, so that I can Intuition for them if need be.  Problem is, one of these won't make the cut:

Ground Seal
Pithing Needle
Rack and Ruin
Red Elemental Blast

What is the weak link here?  I'm thinking it's REB.  As useful as it can be, I just don't think it hoses CS quite as well as Seal, R&R, and Needle.  That makes my sideboard look like this:

1 Ancient Hydra
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
2 Misdirection
3 Pithing Needle
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Stifle

What do you guys think?

[oldbsturgeon]

i think that Khahan's list is good start for a drainless list. look for it in the tournament results.

[Shade]

What would the optimal Oath SB look like against an even field of the best decks?  Cards to consider, off the top of my head:

Ancient Hydra
Arcane Laboratory
Ground Seal
Iridescent Angel
Lava Dart
Misdirection
Naturalizae
Null Rod
Phyrexian Furnace
Pithing Needle
Platinum Angel
Pristine Angel
Rack and Ruin
Red Elemental Blast
Stifle

[Shade]

Well, here I am, switching things up again.

I've decided to remove the CWishes from the deck.  I just never liked them much, and constantly found myself pitching them to FoW.  Instead, I need to use my two open slots as answers for Platz.  My three options seem to be to bounce it, kill it, or steal it.  When bouncing, ETruth can bounce my own Platz, and they can recast their own with Drain mana.  With kill, it goes to the grave, and they reanimate it.  Yuck.  So, instead, I think I'll just steal the damn thing.   Control Magic and Treachery are my main choices here, and both a pitchable to FoW, which is nice.  But, which one to use?  Treachery is one mana more, but harder to hose.  Hmm...

With some MD creature control, I can now move Platz back to my SB, which will be modified as well.

1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
2 Control Magic/Treachery
3 Impulse
4 Intuition

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
1 Ancient Hydra (CS)
3 Chalice of the Void (TPS)
3 Ground Seal (CS)
1 Iridescent Angel (StP)
2 Misdirection (various)
1 Platinum Angel (CS, various)
1 Pristine Angel (StP)
3 Rack and Ruin (TPS, CS)

[Shade]

After more playesting, I have gone back to 3 creatures in the MD, but this time I'm running Hydra instead of Platz.  It's just awesome, and the deck feels stronger with 3 creatures IMO.

I also need help filling out my last three SB slots.  I assume it will be a three-of of something, but am not completely sure what.  Top candidates atm are REB, Needle, and Chalice.

1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
2 Impulse
4 Intuition

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak
2 Misdirection

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin
3 ???

[the boogie man]

   I think that you can remove the ground seals  for pithing needles, because not only do they come down faster, but they are far more global. you can run them against dragon and still name bazaar, against cs you can go welder followed by pentavus, and against workshop you can go welder or wasteland, and you can also stop the infinite strip mine crucible lock. fish and stuff you name wastelands, then lavamancer or jitte or wild mongrel or rootwalla or whatever else. they just do so much against so many things. there are others, but I'm probably annoying everyone.

[Moxlotus]

Why would you run 3 creatures?  So you can have 1 more card that you don't want in your opening hand?

[TheAlpha]

What would the optimal Oath SB look like against an even field of the best decks?  Cards to consider, off the top of my head:

Null Rod
Pithing Needle
Stifle

(I removed all the cards that are good enough to include imo)

Null Rod is very slow because of the number of 2CC cards you run. I hardly ever casted it turn 2, unless you have say double wasteland so you can screw your opponents mana base. I read TMD a lot and it seems that people just aren't that scared of Rods anymore. If I were you, I wouldn't play Null Rods. I found them useless.

Pithing Needle; I haven't tested it yet but I think they aren't good enough. Lots of people say it's good against welders / bazaar etc. So is Ground Seal. Dragon players will use compulsion for example to dump dragon in the graveyard, leviat players will use Intuition, and imo Needle has no clear advantages over Ground Seal against Slaver. Further, Ground Seal does stop Recoup. The only good thing is that Needle stops wastelands like Willow_Whisperer mentioned but with a combination of Rack and Ruin and Naturalize you should be fine in the MWS-matchups. I think that Needle isn't good enough to make it because I think you just have better options.

Stifle is way to situational and never ever stops combo because of Duress. A good combo player will never let you ruin his Tendrils/Freeze.

[Shade]

   I think that you can remove the ground seals  for pithing needles, because not only do they come down faster, but they are far more global. you can run them against dragon and still name bazaar, against cs you can go welder followed by pentavus, and against workshop you can go welder or wasteland, and you can also stop the infinite strip mine crucible lock. fish and stuff you name wastelands, then lavamancer or jitte or wild mongrel or rootwalla or whatever else. they just do so much against so many things. there are others, but I'm probably annoying everyone.

In the specific matchup against CS, Seal > Needle.  However, I like the Needle for it's ability to hose decks I'm not already well equipped against, like rogue decks for instance.  They will likely get my last 3 SB slots, but the Seals stay.

Why would you run 3 creatures?  So you can have 1 more card that you don't want in your opening hand?

I have NEVER run into problems with 3 creatures MD.  Now, more than 3 and things start to get cluttered.  Hydra has saved my ass a couple times against some good aggro decks that had me on the ropes.  The only thing I've found better against aggro decks is Platz.

What would the optimal Oath SB look like against an even field of the best decks?  Cards to consider, off the top of my head:

Null Rod
Pithing Needle
Stifle

(I removed all the cards that are good enough to include imo)

Null Rod is very slow because of the number of 2CC cards you run. I hardly ever casted it turn 2, unless you have say double wasteland so you can screw your opponents mana base. I read TMD a lot and it seems that people just aren't that scared of Rods anymore. If I were you, I wouldn't play Null Rods. I found them useless.

Pithing Needle; I haven't tested it yet but I think they aren't good enough. Lots of people say it's good against welders / bazaar etc. So is Ground Seal. Dragon players will use compulsion for example to dump dragon in the graveyard, leviat players will use Intuition, and imo Needle has no clear advantages over Ground Seal against Slaver. Further, Ground Seal does stop Recoup. The only good thing is that Needle stops wastelands like Willow_Whisperer mentioned but with a combination of Rack and Ruin and Naturalize you should be fine in the MWS-matchups. I think that Needle isn't good enough to make it because I think you just have better options.

Stifle is way to situational and never ever stops combo because of Duress. A good combo player will never let you ruin his Tendrils/Freeze.

I agree concerning Rod and Stifle, but am going to try to pack 3 Needles with 3 Seals.  I like their versatility, but I agree that Seal > Needle in most instances against CS.

God I hate Oath... If you must play this deck, Play Oath Salvagers!!! It won the Beanie exchange and kicked my ass. I was playing dragon...good dragon. So Oath Salvagers as cheap as it is, is a good deck.

Salvagers Oath is a combo deck (as opposed to control, which I prefer) and easily hosed.  Plus, I don't happen to have an extra Lotus lying around.