shining shoal

[Ender]

This question recently came up and it baffled the hell out of me.

I control Four 2/2 creatures.   My opponet plays a pyroclasm.  In response I play Shining Shoal for an X of 4 where pyroclasm is the damage source and my opponet himself as the target of shining shoal.

opinion 1..   I can save 1 of my creatures  by redirecting the 2 damage being done to it  and the extra two points of X  are wasted.
opinion 2..   I can save 2 of my creatures by redirecting 2 damage from one creature then may spend the other 2 points of X to save another creature because im allowed to make use of all points of X  and after the damage is moved off my main creature I can choose another creature and use up the rest of X.
opinion 3..   I can save all 4 of my creatures because the pyroclasm is the source of damage and it is dealing a total of 8 damage.  The shoal is letting me redirect the next X damage from that source so I am able to choose what 4 damage that the pyroclasm deals.. thereby redirecting 1 damage off each of my creatures and thus saving them.

PS- Emails have been sent to ask the judge and scg just for fun ^^

[Limbo]

The next X damage that a source of your choice would deal to you or a creature you control this turn is dealt to target creature or player instead.

There are 2 "targets" here. The damage source and the place where it will be redirected to. Once Pyroclasms damage is on the stack, you get to choose which four damage to redirect (you can save up to two creatures if all are 2/2 and 4 damage is dealt). Then the "new" target gets four damage.

[Ephraim]

Why can't he save all four creatures? Isn't the damage dealt simultaneously? In that case, couldn't he prevent one damage to each of the four creatures and still have it qualify as "the next four damage?"

[epeeguy]

There are 2 "targets" here. The damage source and the place where it will be redirected to. Once Pyroclasms damage is on the stack, you get to choose which four damage to redirect (you can save up to two creatures if all are 2/2 and 4 damage is dealt). Then the "new" target gets four damage.

There is only one target; the source of the damge is not a target.  Otherwise, Protection could actually prevent the damage from being redirect (which is why CoPs work as well).

But, you can choose what damage is presented here, and could prevent 1 damage from being dealt to each of the 4 creatures.  This would save all 4 of the 2/2s, as each would only have 1 damage on it.  You could, of course, prevent 2 damage to each of 2 creatures, thus killing 2 of them and with the other not having any damage dealt to them.  Ephraim is correct here.

[Limbo]

Why can't he save all four creatures? Isn't the damage dealt simultaneously? In that case, couldn't he prevent one damage to each of the four creatures and still have it qualify as "the next four damage?"

Oopsy. Of course you can save 4.
Must..sleep...more...

There is only one target; the source of the damge is not a target.  Otherwise, Protection could actually prevent the damage from being redirect (which is why CoPs work as well).

Hence the "" around targets.

[epeeguy]

Hence the "" around targets.

Even then, that is still potentially confusing to certain players.  While I understand why you said it that way, it's still best to probably not use that terminology (which does have a specific meaning and usage).

Just my two cents.

[Ender]

lol nice.. i was right ^^

screw you wotc judge hotline and screw the person that called.... kidding....-ish 

[epeeguy]

lol nice.. i was right ^^

screw you wotc judge hotline and screw the person that called.... kidding....-ish 

Out of curiosity, what was the answer the hotline gave?

[Ender]

well i wasn't the one who called but the guy who did said the hotline guy said that the 3rd option was definitely wrong

[Cross]

that hot line is terrible. I was at a local store and there was an argument about necropotence and whether or not you have to discard if you put enough cards in your hand so that it were to go over seven. The hot line told the kid you didn't have to because it was past the discard part of your end step.