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Author Topic: fixed suicide deck  (Read 1506 times)
Gruesome
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« on: May 29, 2005, 12:59:51 am »

ok the deck list is (also i couldn't find any good suicide deck)

Creatures:

4xGrinning demon
4xDauthi slayer
4xCarnophage
2xHidden Horror
2xMaggot Carrier
4xSleeper Agent
2xWall of Blood
3xPhyrexian Scuta

Misc:

1xHatred
4xDemonic Tutor
2xVampiric Tutor
4xUnholy Strength
2xSkeletal Scrying

Land:

2xCabal Coffers
1xPhyrexian Tower
4xMishra's Factory
13xSwamp

Can i get some suggestions.....please be kind
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Nefarias
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2005, 10:52:18 am »

Okay, I'll try my best, though be forewarned that Suicide Black has been completely dismissed as being at all competitive in tournament Vintage. I'll also attempt as best I can to respect your request to be nice.

First of all, traditional Vintage Suicide decks are based off disruption. Obviously, this is the casual forum, but it might not be a bad place to start. Duress, Hypnotic Specter, Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole, Null Rod, and Wasteland are all common sights.

As for your mana base: If you don't need the Wastelands, that's fine, but Phyrexian Tower and Cabal Coffers are worse than Lake of the Dead, which also isn't that great. The most glaring ommission, though is no Dark Ritual. I don't care if you completely ignore everything else I say--but you need 4x Dark Ritual!

You also have a lot more creatures than the average deck runs. You know that an opponent gains control of Sleeper Agent when it comes into play, right? As in you can't attack with it? I deals them 2 damage a turn, and you three damage a turn. With the exception of Wall of Blood, you don't seem to have any way to negate the Agent. I woudl prefer Wall of Souls in that slot anyway, or even better, no Walls at all. You're not running the two most effecient black attackers ever: Phyrexian Negator or Nantuko Shade. I'm guessing by your build that your group plays mostly aggro, so Negator is no good there, but the Shade still deserves a spot. Usually when people play Carnophage, they also play Sarcomancy. Flesh Reaver was another commonly used option back in the day.

As for the "Misc" section, there are two things that immediately spring to mind (well, other than the aforementioned lack of disruption). The first is that both Demonic and Vampiric Tutors are restricted in Vintage. The second is that there is no Necropotence or Yawgmoth's Bargain. If you configured the deck differently, Yawgmoth's Will shoudl be there too, but as is, it would be not-so-hot in this deck.

Finally, I ask the question: what environment exactly is ths meant for? If it's multiplayer, than cards like Duress, and its lesser counterparts Hymn to Tourach and Sinkhole aren't worth it, but even if it's casual one-on-one's I'd say go for some of those. If there is control, go with the Duresses, if it's all aggro, then don't. Are you respecting the Vintage restricted list?

I guess here's the part where I make my suggested changes. I'll try not to be too drastic, though, and will reserve judgment on some things, not knowing your style and all.

-2 Cabal Coffers, -1 Phyrexian Tower, -1 Swamp
+4 Dark Ritual

-4 Swamps
+4 Polluted Delta/Bloodstained Mire

-4 Sleeper Agent
+4 Sarcomancy

-4 Grinning Demon
+4 Hypnotic Specter

-2 Maggot Carrier, -2 Unholy Strength
+4 Nantuko Shade

-2 Unholy Strength
+1 Necropotence, +1 Yawgmoth's Bargain (more of these if you aren't using the Restricted List)

-2 Wall of Blood
+2 Diabolic/Chainer's Edict

I know that these aren't the absolute best you can do, but I am trying not to stray you too far from you original notion of the deck. A lot of people would be like "-60 these cards, +60 GiftsBelcher" or something and, while I don't suggest you play this deck, if you are going to, maybe my suggestions will treat you a bit better than your previous build.


Also:
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(also i couldn't find any good suicide deck)

There's a reason for that.
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Reverend
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2005, 01:08:33 pm »

To help agasnt decks that draws a lot and strom try using  Chains of Mephistopheles.
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Buttons
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2005, 06:42:47 pm »

If you're just going with a fun deck, that has somewhat serious competative potential,

Back in the days of Counterpost, I was playing counterpost at a 1.5 tournament, when I saw this guy next to me do this:

Swamp
Dark Ritual
Priest of Gix
Priest of Gix
Priest of Gix
Priest of Gix
Hypnotic Specter
Go.

If you're running 4x Demonic Tutor,
Then run 4x NECROPOTENCE!!!

Run 4 Drain Lifes, Necropotence, Demonic Tutor, Demonic Consolation (These really are the best tutors, if all your cards are 4-ofs)

4 Dark Ritual, 4 Cabal Ritual,

4 Yawgmoth's Bargain (It's great if you go turn 1 swamp, dark ritual, cabal ritual, bargain)

4 Lake of the Dead,
SWAMPS

And add in some green for 4x Fastbond (so you can just win instantly with bargain)

Unless you want to go pure old school aggro.

Then you want some pump knights (or Nantuko Shade who is so much better)

Aggro list:

4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach (or Torach, or even Touach, I forget)
4 Necropotence
4 Drain Life
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Priest of Gix
4 Nantuko Shade (or some pump knights, like order of ebon hand)
4 Demonic Consultation  (for potence)  (you could put in a weenie here too)
4 Demonic Tutor           (for potence)
4 Cabal Ritual  (maybe, I can't think straight)

4 Lake of the Dead
16 Swamps

Combo type black-green (heh, would look like this)

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Necropotence
4 Yawgmoth's Bargain
4 Demonic Tutor           (for Bargain, Potence, Bayou or Fastbond)
4 Demonic Consultation  (for Bargain, Potence, Bayou or Fastbond)
4 Fastbond
4 Drain Life                   (your kill, heh)

4 Bayou
4 Lake of the Dead
12 Swamp

These are all super-cheap cards except for the Bayous and Tutors (but I assume you already have those)

I mean, everything expensive is like 5 bucks or cheaper, man.  You could make the deck for roughly...

1.00    4  Duress
1.00    4 Hymn to Tourach
0.50    4 Dark Ritual
0.50    4 Cabal Ritual
20.00  4 Necropotence
20.00  4 Yawgmoth's Bargain
20.00  4 Demonic Tutor           (for Bargain, Potence, Bayou or Fastbond)
0.50    4 Demonic Consultation  (for Bargain, Potence, Bayou or Fastbond)
20.00  4 Fastbond
0.50    4 Drain Life                   (your kill, heh)

80.00  4 Bayou
20.00  4 Lake of the Dead
0.00    12 Swamp

Just under $200, assuming you don't have any of the cards aside the 12 swamps.  It's actually funny to think about paying 200 dollars on a tournament illegal deck.

If you're looking to go with cheapacity:

4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Drain Life
4 Pump Knights
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Demonic Consultation
4 Demonic Tutor (I'm assuming you have these)
4 Priest of Gix
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Whateverelseyouwant

20 Swamp

But Necropotence = broken.  If you can get 4 of these cheap, do it, man.
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