SCG Daily: Concept Deck, Take Two with Budget Black Green Oath!!

[Smmenen]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/9787.html

I am struck with deck ideas all the time. Most of them are crap and I acknowledge that. However, it is critical to document your ideas. Most of my good ideas have started out as a crap idea that I shelved and then something strikes me and suddenly I get an "aha" moment and the idea clicks. Today's deck is one such example.

I was inspired by Vegeta's article on Concept Decks.  I honestly think this deck might be pretty good if well tuned. 

[49 Cents]

Looks interesting. Did you tested it? Further more, good article. I really like these Daily Articles

Also, you said in The Chalice-Oath article that your maindeck SHOULD have an answer against Platinum Angel. Am I missing something, because I don't see any answer. Now you could argue that you are never going to have him have 7 mana, but A first turn welder is pretty nasty..

And the final question, why play 3 creatures over 2? Rorix adds nothing, It doesn't kill a Platz and it can't shoot creatures/destroy artifacts..

Greetz,

Hugo

[TheAlpha]

And the final question, why play 3 creatures over 2? Rorix adds nothing, It doesn't kill a Platz and it can't shoot creatures/destroy artifacts..

To support the Oaths, the deck needs tutors. If we have more than three win conditions, then Consult might be includable:
..
And unless we find it awful, I guess we can use one Demonic Consulation

It quite obvious because you don't want to kill yourself of a Consultation because you hit your 2 creatures.

[Daniel_112]

why play 3 creatures over 2? Rorix adds nothing, It doesn't kill a Platz and it can't shoot creatures/destroy artifacts..

Now you can therapy your opp. after your attack phase...

[Duncan]

I would suggest playing bloodstained mire and taiga over tropical island and polluted delta. Then your own choke doesn't affect your own mana base  It won't happen that often, but since I see no different possibilities between both choices except for the choke, I would play mires (deltas artwork is nicer  )

[garlick]

Hi, I'm now testing this deck, but I made only few matches, especially against Sensei-Sensei. I won the majority of them because the hate level is so high and well backed by strong disruption (Duress, Cabal Therapy, Unmask).

What would you suggest for the side in a generic meta? What about Root Maze and Naturalize to begin with? Are there any cards that are good against particular  match ups? For instance Fish can be a bad matchup with their Meddling Madge and stuff like that, or also a fast aggro.

As other sideboard options, I thought of [card]Smother[/card] against Welder or Psychatog decks, [card]Mutilate[/card] or [card] Night of Souls' Betrayal[/card] against Fish-esque decks. Are these too mana expensive?


Also, is Ancient Hydra playable in the place of Rorix in order to have a response to Platinum Angel maindeck?

Thanks for the suggestions.

Bye, Fabio

[BigMac]

If i am not mistaken woodripper kills the platz with ease so there is that problem solved.

If you play this build why not include coffin purge as many decks use the graveyard as a resource.

Another inclusion could be ground seal, as a sideboard card it can be good against may decks.

Just a thought.

[49 Cents]

If i am not mistaken woodripper kills the platz with ease so there is that problem solved.

If you play this build why not include coffin purge as many decks use the graveyard as a resource.

Another inclusion could be ground seal, as a sideboard card it can be good against may decks.

Just a thought.

Yeah, but I don't see it in his Maindeck..

Purge and Seal both sound very good..

Greetz,

Hugo

[alban]

I would cut Rorix for a Woodripper.

@smmenen:
what would be your idea of the sideboard?

[PizzaMan]

I´m sorry, but I still don't understand why Cabal Ritual was included...

I mean, the original BG Oath used to have 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Mox Diamond and 1 Mana Crypt (besides Lotus Petal) to go for a first turn Oath, and Stephen version uses... 2 Cabal Rituals? Whats the point?

Also the removal of the 4 Living Wishes made the Rituals kind lost. With BG on the table he could Ritual, Wish for Withered Wretch and play it, kicking Welders out.

I would suggest playing bloodstained mire and taiga over tropical island and polluted delta. Then your own choke doesn't affect your own mana base It won't happen that often, but since I see no different possibilities between both choices except for the choke, I would play mires (deltas artwork is nicer )

Yeah, with the Wishes out, the Tropical is meaningless... and a Taiga and a Foothills would be better...
In Alvarez version, the Tropical could help to summon the Gilded Drake.

The only things I liked in Stephen's list are the Unmasks and Therapy's!

[garlick]

I would cut Rorix for a Woodripper.

Umh... I'm not convinced. Woodripper is quite awkward, of course he can kill Platinum and other nasty artifacts, but maindecking him seems too narrow.

Instead, Hydra can kill Platinum AND other creatures, such as Welder or other stuff. Besides, she can ping herself in order to oath up another creature.

The only good reasons I see to maindeck Woodripper are the fact that you can cast him from your hand or the fact that you play in a meta full of artifacts.

I´m sorry, but I still don't understand why Cabal Ritual was included...

I mean, the original BG Oath used to have 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Mox Diamond and 1 Mana Crypt (besides Lotus Petal) to go for a first turn Oath, and Stephen version uses... 2 Cabal Rituals? Whats the point?

Probably because you run null rods maindecked.

[Pechunato]

A very interesting deck. After looking the list and some testing, I have these questions:

The synergy between Crucible and Oath is undeniable. Cabal Therapy might also be a nifty inclusion to take advantage of that synergy.

The possibility of a Crucible lock is tempting, why it didn't make the cut?
What synergy has Cabal Therapy? There isn't enough creatures to play it from the graveyard, besides the "oathable" creatures.

Sometimes I draw a creature, and without any way to put it back to the library, it becomes a liability; is there any way to get around this?

Why not Yawgmoth's Will? With all the Rituals you could play a couple of bombs from the graveyard and turn the tide in your favour.

[PizzaMan]

I´m sorry, but I still don't understand why Cabal Ritual was included...

I mean, the original BG Oath used to have 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Mox Diamond and 1 Mana Crypt (besides Lotus Petal) to go for a first turn Oath, and Stephen version uses... 2 Cabal Rituals? Whats the point?

Probably because you run null rods maindecked.

Yeah... Travis Laplante's Aggro Workshop (Top8 in SCG P9 Richmond) used a full set of Moxen and Lotus, and still maindecked Null Rods...
Also, I would really rather lost one Chrome Mox and one imprinted card to go for a Turn 1 Rod than ???????? (removing them to Unmask?) with the Cabal Rituals...

I mean... The Rods are one more reason to keep the artifact accelerators in the maindeck!

[Smmenen]

Crappy accellerants like Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox are not worth the slots.  Now if you had an Emerald or a Jet, that would be a different matter.

Just becuase its budget doesn't mean it should have bad cards.

But I haven't tested it that much.  I just wanted to bring it to people's attention.  The deck clearly performed well in a huge tournament. 

[garlick]

Isn't Gaea's Blessing necessary? In my little test I found myself many times without creatures.

[Shade]

This deck just screams "Pithing Needle" to me.   I'd opt for those and Chalices over MD Chokes and Chains.  And where is Ground Seal?

4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Regrowth
3 Skeletal Scrying
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Pithing Needle

4 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dark Ritual
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Forest
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Choke
3 Ground Seal
2 Naturalize
2 Oxidize
1 Withered Wretch
1 Woodripper

This is completely off the top of my head, with admittedly no playtesting yet.  Just thinking out loud.

I would also consider Night's Whispers if you need more search.

[PizzaMan]

Crappy accelerators like Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox are not worth the slots.  Now if you had an Emerald or a Jet, that would be a different matter.

Just because its budget doesn't mean it should have bad cards.

But I haven't tested it that much.  I just wanted to bring it to people's attention.  The deck clearly performed well in a huge tournament. 

Is Cabal Ritual so much better than Chrome Mox and Lotus Petal?
And even being bad accelerators in Vintage, I think the idea of the deck is just to combo out as soon as possible, as many Oath decks does. And I bet that a Land Petal Unmask Oath is really good, and can happens often in a tournament...

Even if the "poor accelerators" should be cut, why just add Cabal Ritual over... Crucible of Words, for a example? Is the single ability to be pitched for Unmask so great? Add some One With Nothings! They are so crappy cards that your opponent will lose the concentration and you run over him!

[Scott_Limoges]

This Oath variant has similar characteristics and strategies to the old mono black masknought builds.  Could this comparison steer the deck towards a more focused gameplan or simply incorporate old aspects like the suicide tutors (spoils or tainted pact)?

[nataz]

this actualy reminds me hardcore of mono-black dragon. It has similar benifts in that it gets to run the black goodies (duress, unmask, cabal therp, and dark rit), runs null rod main, and has a quick win condition.

Even better though is the less clunky win condition (an Oath gone bad is better then a dragon loop gone bad), and now you finaly get to play with necro and chains (something dragon could never do).

the downsides are that you DO run two colors, and you lose out on the awsome power of Xantid Swarm

Over all I think this is a better framework, and Id like to see it tested more.

[Smmenen]

I have no idea.

I just saw the deck in the top results from Paris and was reminded of a deck I came up with.

I'm sure that something good can be done with this, but I am not the person to do it!

[Disburden]

This deck just screams "Pithing Needle" to me.   I'd opt for those and Chalices over MD Chokes and Chains. 

I don't understand the reasoning for wanting pitching needle over chains, it seems like its just over the hype of a new card rather than actual reasoning. I could be missing something though, it is late.

Chains is one of the mightiest hosers right now. The only reason I could see NOT running it main is that this deck is budget and Chains cost about 60$ a piece.

Chalice is just sweet against any deck, especially when playing a budget deck that doesn't run 5 moxen, lotus, crypt, etc. So I agree on the Chalice part of your statement.

[Stupid_Newb]

This deck just screams "Pithing Needle" to me. ? I'd opt for those and Chalices over MD Chokes and Chains.?

I don't understand the reasoning for wanting pitching needle over chains, it seems like its just over the hype of a new card rather than actual reasoning. I could be missing something though, it is late.

Chains is one of the mightiest hosers right now. The only reason I could see NOT running it main is that this deck is budget and Chains cost about 60$ a piece.

Chalice is just sweet against any deck, especially when playing a budget deck that doesn't run 5 moxen, lotus, crypt, etc. So I agree on the Chalice part of your statement.

I've been testing my own variant of the deck, and Pithing Needles are sideboarded.

You can't take Chains out for them. Chains slaps stuff around. I've upped my Chains to four in the maindeck, because they're that good. They will help you more than they hurt you in every single matchup (Stax could be the lone acception). Chains will never really hurt you, unless your opponent makes you draw. While Pithing Needle is good, there are a lot of matchups where you'll be settling for a mediocre target.

If you're going to take something out for Needles, it should be Choke. Choke is a major hoser, and can totally screw over some manabases, but keep in mind you are running five Strip effects as well. I've found that Choke is overkill, especially since it's totally dead against combo (granted, Needle isn't so hot against combo either). In my build, I've moved all my Chokes to the board, and in their place I've added Crucibles. Even though Crucible does screw manabases, it also saves yours, and at the same cost as a Choke, I find it far better.