Freelancer
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« on: June 05, 2005, 10:47:46 am » |
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If my opponent tries to naturalize my hidden gibbons what happens?
If my opponent has a scepter with brainstorm on it, and I cast a meddling mage on brainstorm will he still be able to play the brainstorm on the scepter (when mage has resolved)?
When do you name a card with meddling mage? Is this a triggered ability (counterable by stifle) And when do you name a card with pithing needle?
If I steal my opponents mishra's factory (animated) with a seasinger will I still control it when the factory becomes a regular land (not animated) again?
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epeeguy
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2005, 11:19:10 am » |
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If my opponent tries to naturalize my hidden gibbons what happens?
When Naturalize is played, the Hidden Gibbons' ability will trigger and go on top of the stack (above the Naturalize). The ability will resolve first, and the Hidden Gibbons' will become a 4/4 ape creature (no longer an Enchantment). When Naturalize attempts to resolve, it will see that its target is illegal and will be countered as a result. If my opponent has a scepter with brainstorm on it, and I cast a meddling mage on brainstorm will he still be able to play the brainstorm on the scepter (when mage has resolved)?
A copy of card, for the purposes of Magic, is not considered a card. Copies of cards generated by Isochron Scepter can still be played, even if there is a Meddling Mage in play that had that card named. When do you name a card with meddling mage? Is this a triggered ability (counterable by stifle) And when do you name a card with pithing needle?
No, they are static abilities that happen when the Meddling Mage/Pithing Needle is put into play. They are not triggered abilities (the ability doesn't use the words "When/Whenever/At") and cannot be responded to. If I steal my opponents mishra's factory (animated) with a seasinger will I still control it when the factory becomes a regular land (not animated) again?
Yes. The legality of the target (that it is a "target creature whose controller controls an Island") is only checked when the ability is played, or when the ability resolves. After the ability resolves, it doesn't matter what the creature becomes. As long as the Seasinger is controlled by you and is tapped, you will retain control of the Mishra's Factory.
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Limbo
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2005, 11:20:07 am » |
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If my opponent tries to naturalize my hidden gibbons what happens? When naturalize is put onto the stack, the gibbons ability triggers. It is put onto the stack, on top of the naturalize. Gibbons turns into a creature. Naturalize is still targeted at the gibbons, but fizzles upon resolution, as gibbons isn't a legal target anymore. An instant speed vindicate could turn it into a creature and still destroy it. Fault line for four or more will also do the trick of destroying it. If my opponent has a scepter with brainstorm on it, and I cast a meddling mage on brainstorm will he still be able to play the brainstorm on the scepter (when mage has resolved)? No, the opponent will be able to activate the scepter (sinking two colorless mana), but will be unable to play the copy created by the scepter. EDIT: From rulings on the Isochron Scepter: You can't play the copy if an effect would prevent it from being played from your hand. When do you name a card with meddling mage? Is this a triggered ability (counterable by stifle) And when do you name a card with pithing needle? Triggered abilities start with "When", "Whenever" or "At". So this ability cannot be countered by stifle. However, the card you want to become unplayable is named upon resolution, not when you put the mage on the stack. Same with the needle. If I steal my opponents mishra's factory (animated) with a seasinger will I still control it when the factory becomes a regular land (not animated) again?
You do not lose control of the stolen creature if it stops being a creature.
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« Last Edit: June 05, 2005, 11:22:08 am by Limbo »
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epeeguy
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2005, 11:21:39 am » |
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If my opponent has a scepter with brainstorm on it, and I cast a meddling mage on brainstorm will he still be able to play the brainstorm on the scepter (when mage has resolved)? No, the opponent will be able to activate the scepter (sinking two colorless mana), but will be unable to play the copy created by the scepter. Incorrect. Copies of cards are not considered cards. You can still play the copy generated by Isochron Scepter. Edit: No offense Limbo, but this question has been asked and answered before, you can play the copy. This was, in fact, answered in a Saturday School on September 4, 2004: Q: I've got Meddling Mage in play. The named card is Counterspell. My opponent has in play Isochron Scepter with imprinted Counterspell on it. Can he play the imprinted card? –Maciej A: No. It's not legal to play the named card. However, the Scepter lets him play copies of cards—not actual cards. The Scepter does avoid Meddling Mage's incessant chanting.It is perfect legal to still play the copy. The Mage doesn't stop it from being played.
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« Last Edit: June 05, 2005, 11:25:27 am by epeeguy »
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Limbo
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2005, 11:24:24 am » |
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If my opponent has a scepter with brainstorm on it, and I cast a meddling mage on brainstorm will he still be able to play the brainstorm on the scepter (when mage has resolved)? No, the opponent will be able to activate the scepter (sinking two colorless mana), but will be unable to play the copy created by the scepter. Incorrect. Copies of cards are not considered cards. You can still play the copy generated by Isochron Scepter. The copy created by an isochron scepter is not considered the same as the copy from a fork or something. In the case of isochron scepter, you actually PLAY the created copy, which is prevented by the mage.
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Without magic, life would be a mistake - Friedrich Nietzsche Chuck would ask Chuck how a woodchuck would chuck wood... as fast as this.
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epeeguy
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2005, 11:27:29 am » |
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The copy created by an isochron scepter is not considered the same as the copy from a fork or something. In the case of isochron scepter, you actually PLAY the created copy, which is prevented by the mage.
That's not the issue or interaction between Meddling Mage or Isochron Scepter. It's not that you play the copy, it's the fact that it's a copy of a card. Which, for all intents and purposes is not a card. Meddling Mage only prevents cards from being played. It doesn't prevent copies. Read my edit please. Your understanding is mistaken.
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It's the wood that should fear your hand, not the other way around. No wonder you can't do it, you acquiesce to defeat before you even begin. - Pai Mei
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Freelancer
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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2005, 11:32:11 am » |
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Saturday school can be trusted right? If so I thank you all for the quick response.  If not than I want some rules clarification (ie. more people), the way I understand it is that mage says card while scepter says copy and this allows the copy to resolve. I wasn't entirely sure though.
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epeeguy
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2005, 11:36:05 am » |
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Saturday school can be trusted right?
Yes, as the John Carter (the rules manager for Magic) is the individual who actually writes up the rulings. If not than I want some rules clarification (ie. more people), the way I understand it is that mage says card while scepter says copy and this allows the copy to resolve. I wasn't entirely sure though.
That's correct. A copy of a card is not a card for the purposes of Meddling Mage. This interaction has been a long standing object of misunderstanding, as people confuse the interaction between Meddling Mage and Isochron Scepter versus Orim's Chant and Isochron Scepter. With the Meddling Mage, the copy can still be played. With Orim's Chant, the copy cannot be played (because Orim's Chant prevents spells from being played). It's a very similar, but different enough, situation. Frequently confused, unless you focus in on the one key difference.
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It's the wood that should fear your hand, not the other way around. No wonder you can't do it, you acquiesce to defeat before you even begin. - Pai Mei
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2005, 11:46:32 am » |
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From the comprehensive rules:
200.1. When a rule or text on a card refers to a "card," it means a Magic card with a Magic card front and the Magic card back. Tokens aren't considered cards-even a card that represents a token isn't considered a card for rules purposes.
Thus, copies of cards are not cards, and Meddling Mage does not affect them.
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Freelancer
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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2005, 12:25:29 pm » |
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Ok thanks a lot for clearing that up. 
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Limbo
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« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2005, 03:23:55 pm » |
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No offense Limbo. None taken. Although I know it doesn't get updated anymore, I used Crystalkeep as a source for my information regarding Isochron Scepter. Apparently, the ruling concerning playing copies of spells have changed after they stopped updating it. You are right, I am wrong.
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Without magic, life would be a mistake - Friedrich Nietzsche Chuck would ask Chuck how a woodchuck would chuck wood... as fast as this.
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« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2005, 03:41:36 pm » |
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Crystalkeep stopped updating over two years ago. You can no longer trust ANYTHING on that site to be exactly true. Use gatherer, comp rules, etc. instead.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord, Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile. To those who slander me, let me give no heed. May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Limbo
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« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2005, 04:46:45 pm » |
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Crystalkeep stopped updating over two years ago. You can no longer trust ANYTHING on that site to be exactly true. Use gatherer, comp rules, etc. instead.
Up until now, I haven't had problems answering questions using the site. After this mistake, I will no longer use it.
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Without magic, life would be a mistake - Friedrich Nietzsche Chuck would ask Chuck how a woodchuck would chuck wood... as fast as this.
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epeeguy
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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2005, 07:24:38 am » |
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Up until now, I haven't had problems answering questions using the site. After this mistake, I will no longer use it.
Older rulings it is still good for, until they change the related rules for it. Such as when they tweaked the Legend rule (I haven't looked specifically, but I would guess that it still reads the old way) and a couple of other things. That's usually where they are off; but there's a couple that hadn't fully been hammered out until it came up in DCI events (the Scepter/Mage issue was a big one during this Extended season). But, it's better just to go to the WotC site and look up the Saturday School archives and use Gatherer.
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It's the wood that should fear your hand, not the other way around. No wonder you can't do it, you acquiesce to defeat before you even begin. - Pai Mei
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