How few Midgets?

[Jacob Orlove]

See this thread: http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=23427.0

Now, instead of asking whether 40 midgets will beat a Lion, I'm curious what people think is the approximate minimum number of midgets required, since anyone will agree that there is some number of midgets such that the lion stands no chance. I tried to spread the numbers out so that there's both a fine gradation for the people who think the midgets have a chance, and some big numbers for the people who understand how many midgets a lion can take down.

[The Atog Lord]

Just to clarify -- are these ninja midgets, or just regular type?

[Machinus]

Just to clarify -- are these ninja midgets, or just regular type?

ROFL. If we had ninja midgets this would be a completely different debate.

[Jacob Orlove]

Just to clarify -- are these ninja midgets, or just regular type?

Just regular type. After all, I linked to the orginial thread for a reason. Time-travelled!

[everythingitouchdies]

Just to clarify -- are these ninja midgets, or just regular type?

ROFL. If we had ninja midgets this would be a completely different debate.

Dude ninja midgets are a myth... like the tooth fairy and ernest hemingway.

I went with 250. I figure at that point its very likely the lion will die a random death (roll on the lion horrible death table for description.)

And to make more sense of this, here is a sample lion horrible death table:

Roll a six sided die:

1: While the lion is killing the midgets, a meteor strikes the earth and they are all crushed to death by the smoldering rock

2: Lion Chokes on a midget bone, while hacking he inadvertantly heaves, and due to the large number of midgets surrounding him, drowns in his own vomit

3: Lightning strikes all of the midgets at once and cooks them. The lion overeats and gets really bad stomach cramps, and lies down to take a nap. While sleeping he is struck by lightning too and dies.

4: One of the midgets sells his soul to Meandeck, who gift him with a nifty helmet that grants him the power to, slightly over 50% of the time, kill any beast in a single blow.  However, the other 40-some-odd percent of the time, the helmet either explodes upon use, instantly killing the midget, or his blow is completely ineffectual, resulting in a near-caress of his opponent, in which case he has to spend a while charging up the helmet until he can try it again.

5: Too graphic to post here. PM me for a thorough description, but be warned it involves Onelovemachine's girlfriend and necrophilia.

6: The lion has a heart attack while ripping the arms off a particularly plump midget. Just when it looks like he is going to die, he recovers, but then zombies storm from the jungle and devour both the midgets and the lion (and oh yeah they are zombie ninjas)

[Saucemaster]

I'm withholding my vote until I'm convinced.  I honestly think 60 have a chance, but it appears that we're trying to find the minimum number required for the lion to have NO chance.  In that case, I can see situations in which THE LION, KING OF THE HOOD ends up scoring all 60.  80 is my preliminary answer.  If we're just talking about at which number the midgets have a BETTER chance than the lion, I say 60.

And everythingitouchdies, while I think the first line of your post may be one of the best sentences ever uttered on TMD (even if you did mis-spell "Hemingway"), I have to correct you here:

4: One of the midgets sells his soul to Meandeck, who grant him super powers, and a nifty helmet, and he kills the lion by comboing out on turn 3.

What you mean is, "4: One of the midgets sells his soul to Meandeck, who gift him with a nifty helmet that grants him the power to, slightly over 50% of the time, kill any beast in a single blow.  However, the other 40-some-odd percent of the time, the helmet either explodes upon use, instantly killing the midget, or his blow is completely ineffectual, resulting in a near-caress of his opponent, in which case he has to spend a while charging up the helmet until he can try it again."

[everythingitouchdies]

And everythingitouchdies, while I think the first line of your post may be one of the best sentences ever uttered on TMD (even if you did mis-spell "Hemingway"), I have to correct you here:

Thanks for the pointers... I completely modified my post to reflect it.

EITD

[Komatteru]

I'm certain that this can be modelled and developed into a non-linear optimization problem, and a solution can be obtained pretty easily, but don't ask me.  I refuse to do it.

[Jacob Orlove]

Hmm, my initial post may have been confusing. My point was that with some number of midgets (say 1) we can all agree that the lion will win, and with some other number (say 1000) we can all agree that the midgets will win. I'm looking for the point where the midgets become heavily favored--if you think there's a decent chance that X midgets will lose, vote for a higher number than X.

[everythingitouchdies]

Well I stick to my number. I am pretty certain 250 midgets win. I am not certain that less than that win. So my number is 250. I probably would have picked 213, which was my actual assessment, but you have to go higher for the same effect. 212 totally lose to the lion.

EITD

[Bram]

Forty, obviously. Twenty midgets is probably slightly too few. What I find interesting is that there's probably a point where the sheer number of midgets starts working against them.

We should simulate this, somehow. It's a shame we can't actually try it.

[Matt]

What I find interesting is that there's probably a point where the sheer number of midgets starts working against them.

I don't think there's a point where their numbers become an actual detriment but I would say that it's certainly a case of diminishing returns.

Hmm, my initial post may have been confusing. ... I'm looking for the point where the midgets become heavily favored--if you think there's a decent chance that X midgets will lose, vote for a higher number than X.

Still, that's not a very good definition, because what do you consider "highly favored"? A better question would be to ask "What is the minimum number of midgets required such that at least one midget is able to walk away under his own power after the battle?"

[everythingitouchdies]

A better question would be to ask "What is the minimum number of midgets required such that at least one midget is able to walk away under his own power after the battle?"

Is SCG hosting this? He walks away with a piece of power? They better hope only one midget makes it, two hundred and fifty pieces is a lot of power.

EITD

[Machinus]

The average vote is 221.72 midgets.

[Jacob Orlove]

The average vote is 221.72 midgets.

That's a little misleading, because the values are not evenly spaced. There are more under 100 votes than over 100 votes. I find it interesting how there are basically three "peaks" to the data.