If Fish is set to dominate, is FCG set to dominate fish?

[JamesPr]

If Fish is set to dominate, is FCG set to dominate fish?  If so, what form will Goblins take?

In this thread, Fish is unanimously thought as a deck that could potentially be set to dominate by almost everyone.  FCG has typically has a decent match up against fish from what I understand, so could that potentially mean that FCG could become not just viable but a legitimate threat in an environment filled with a lot of fish?

http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=278779

If so, what form will Goblins take?  Will it take an Aether Vial form, as discussed semi in depth on SCGs by Mike Zaun in this thread? 

http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=278388

I believe Mike Zaun, said in one article that in the SCGs tournament Food Chain was not the primary factor of his success.  I do not know how much he used Food Chain in the tournament.  I also do not know how much or how little about how he cheated with Kiki-Jiki, however, he did win the tournament which does count for something, which makes his voice at least somewhat credible. 

In testing, one of the largest problems I’ve had with FCG was getting my taigas stripped.  I wouldn’t even be searching for them with Wooded Foothills, when I’d draw them my opponent would drop the waste and destroy them.  Of course, if I drew a lackey, this would be somewhat irrelevant.  Although through limited testing, Aether Vial forms of Goblins seem somewhat interesting.  It allows goblins to take out the clunky mana acceleration, become a cheaper dual-less deck, and if it runs Chalice, which allows them to have at least some form of anti control-combo disruption that actually gets out fast enough to do some damage.

Discuss.

[Moxlotus]

Zaun has said that he would cut the Food Chains completely.  That would solve the whole Taigas getting wasted problem.

[Hi-Val]

WTF is the deck that will dominate Fish if need be. Jitte is better than all the goblins in the world and so is Mongrel. The problem with FCG is that it doesn't run FOW or any disruption at all. It's a really slow combo deck that loses to a lot. Off the board, blue decks can bring in things that deal with Tinker/Colossus and Tendrils; the ones that FCG has are second rate.

Goblins is a fine enough deck, but it gets hosed by EE, really hosed by Pyroclasm and really really hosed by nine spells and Tendrils.

[JamesPr]

My initial post was a little scattered and confusing.

Basically, what I'm asking is could a new form of goblins develop to at least have a chance against the problem cards, such as utilizing Chalice of the Void, maindeck REBS, Aether Vial, and possibly it's own Jitte?  Still, I think this deck would have an incredible problem dealing with all the hate out there like you have said, which would make it somewhat unreliable. 

Goblins are only good when there's a lot of them out, and it is really difficult in type1 to get a large amount of creatures on the board, which is why I think Goblins might have some difficulty.  This is just speculation, however, with little initial testing to back it up.

Obviously these are all questions that require testing to answer, which I might do and get back to you. 

[Limbo]

I think a comparison using Stratego is viable here. An amount of people expects fish to become a dominant / best deck (the Marshall). Now you take a deck that has a good matchup against the "Marshall", FCG.  FCG is the Spy. Problem is, the Spy still loses to loads of other stuff. So even if the concentration of Marshalls increases, that doesn't mean the Spy will be likely to win tournaments. The only thing a lot of spies will probably do is keep the Marshalls out of T8 / winning as well.

[SimpleHiker]

WTF is the deck that will dominate Fish if need be. Jitte is better than all the goblins in the world and so is Mongrel. The problem with FCG is that it doesn't run FOW or any disruption at all. It's a really slow combo deck that loses to a lot. Off the board, blue decks can bring in things that deal with Tinker/Colossus and Tendrils; the ones that FCG has are second rate.

Goblins is a fine enough deck, but it gets hosed by EE, really hosed by Pyroclasm and really really hosed by nine spells and Tendrils.

The problem of mono-red goblins vs FCG, is that with the green splash the deck gains FC but also gains a great deal of great utility. Now this goes completely against either playing the control or the beat down theory, but I think the green aspect of FCG was under explored and utilized. Look how long people were shut down about removing FC from the deck, I think lack of exploring deck possibilities has harmed goblins. I just don't feel the pure aggro of mono-red is powerfull enough to bully, win after win.

[Lunar]

Hey guys, I was posting with mike zaun in that thread on SCG and I ended up giving a finished Mono Red Goblins deck to a friend to play at Eudemonia last Sunday..

He ended up dropping after round 4 with a record of 1-1-2 (with his first loss coming to an oath deck I believe, and both draws to fish..which had my friend played more than like ZERO games with the deck before I handed it to him, and only played magic seriously ONCE in the last three years, he might have made top 8 easily, as both fish matchups probably could have been won.)

That list was something like...(going off memory as I am at work and dont have the list with me)

Goblins: 31
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Warcheif
3 Goblin Matron
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Mogg Fanatic
2 Goblin Welder (Amazing in our meta, handles DSC all day long, which is #1 threat around here)
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Goblin Recruiter (Terrible for the most part without food chain, but can be handy time to time)
3 Goblin Ringleader (Amazing for the most part, unless you get mana hosed, which doesnt happen much, or fail to play a lackey)
1 Goblin Vandal
2 Kiki-Jiki (the bustedness)

Other Spells: 7
2 Aether Vial (Pretty bad for the most part, too slow believe it or not..I might give it one more shot though...almost every time I see this card I swear and wish it was a goblin instead)
1 Umezawas Jitte (if fish can use it against me, I can use it against fish...also helps the oath matchup. backs up incinerators for creature kill, and can make a recruiter or something much scarier)
4 Red Elemental Blast (Very strong almost all of the time due to the current meta)

Mana Sources: 22
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
9 Mountain

There might have been one more goblin MD and one less mountain...

SB was something like (keep in mind this is for our bay area meta)

4 Rack and Ruin
3 Blood Moon (the shiz)
2 Null Rod
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Pyroblast
2 Tormods Crypt

I had previously suggested using null rod in the MD in the SCG thread, and that might be the next switch...I might drop the jitte and 2 aether vials for 3 Null rod in the MD...

This deck goldfishes pretty consistantly turn 3-4 kills.

Over the course of 20 goldfishes I saw 18 turn 3-4 kills, 1 turn 5 kill, and 1 turn 2 kill (yeh it was something like mountain, black lotus, lotus petal, mana crypt, warchief, piledriver, piledriver, going second drawing into red elemental blast, swing for 12...then top decking ringleader to start turn 2, cast him swing for 18, gg...dont count on that happening too often though)

Goblin Welder is there to help against workshop decks in general (although vandal might be better if this is a primary concern) and more importantly to deal with the extroardinary number of tinker+DSC in my area...for that purpose welder has been amazing...

Testing has show recruiter to be sub optimal much of the time for the deck, and ive cut it to 2 (because it is still good) so I still have some extra tutoring ability. But recruiter in THIS build is strictly inferior to goblin matron.

Red elemental blasts have been pretty good so far, although 3 MD might be a better number...testing continues here...the added bonus is that much of the combo in my area is heavily blue based and blasting a timetwister generally buys you plenty of time to beat a TPS player or something similar...having blast against control has been good to obviously, but aimed more at killing things like gifts and thirs for knowledge, than protecting my goblins from force or mana drain. (believe it or not)

Any questions let me know...