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Author Topic: [Premium Article] Meandeck Gifts  (Read 77139 times)
Komatteru
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« Reply #330 on: August 05, 2005, 10:05:51 am »


As for the hate: I know Smmenen keeps saying otherwise, but Rootwater Thief is a real pain in the ass (Cap, too, but that's a bit slow), and to a lesser extent Tormod's Crypt as well. Both are shut down by the little happy Needle, which is good.


Theif is not stopped by Needle.  Well, the flying ability is stopped, but the search and destroy thing is a triggered ability and therefore unaffected by Pithing Needle.  (Somehow I missed this for like a week.  Shows how much I'm paying attention.)
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« Reply #331 on: August 05, 2005, 12:03:26 pm »

I appolagize in advance for my noobish question.  I've been looking at gifts decks and was wondering how it won?  Usally decks just have DSC as a 2ndary win condition with tinker, however, in meandeck gifts, I was unable to see any other win condition besides the tendrils of agony in SB.  And the deck doesn't seem like it can pull that off very consistantly.

So, quick n00b question:  Meandeck gifts whins by DSC beatdow right?  And has trendrils in SB as 2nd-ary win condition?
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« Reply #332 on: August 05, 2005, 12:05:08 pm »

You are correct - and the tendrils is easier to pull off than it looks. The deck IS that good.

A lot of people prefer the tendrils route. With a lot of DS Colossus hate out there it is sometimes the best way to go, but first turn tinker-colossus with FoW backup is always a possibility.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2005, 12:07:23 pm by cryolyte » Logged

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« Reply #333 on: August 05, 2005, 12:07:26 pm »

I appolagize in advance for my noobish question.  I've been looking at gifts decks and was wondering how it won?  Usally decks just have DSC as a 2ndary win condition with tinker, however, in meandeck gifts, I was unable to see any other win condition besides the tendrils of agony in SB.  And the deck doesn't seem like it can pull that off very consistantly.

So, quick n00b question:  Meandeck gifts whins by DSC beatdow right?  And has trendrils in SB as 2nd-ary win condition?

The deck's victory conditions are DSC and Tendrils, but it actually Wins by simply outperforming your opponent with superior (and usually restricted) cards.  Setting up for a nice Yawg Will is very common.
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cryolyte
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« Reply #334 on: August 05, 2005, 12:10:18 pm »

Gort32 is right... it WINS through card advantage and broken-ness and yawgmoth's will, but it KILLS via tendrils or colossus.
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« Reply #335 on: August 09, 2005, 05:45:19 pm »

does anyone else not kill with tendrils?

I honestly have only won with tendrils once.  I usually cast merchant scroll turn 1-2 for mystical then tinker off the mystical and just rid that huge 12/12 for the gold.

This last weekend I averaged a turn 3 tinker which is pretty good.  Combined with walk, recoup, and burning wish why wouldnt you play this as aggro combo?
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« Reply #336 on: August 10, 2005, 02:31:32 am »

Quote
does anyone else not kill with tendrils?
I honestly have only won with tendrils once.  I usually cast merchant scroll turn 1-2 for mystical then tinker off the mystical and just rid that huge 12/12 for the gold.
This last weekend I averaged a turn 3 tinker which is pretty good.  Combined with walk, recoup, and burning wish why wouldnt you play this as aggro combo?

The strenght of your deck doesn't consist on the DSC's body at all.
Resolving and winning a quick Gifts for the win usually seal the games against any SubPar.dec
Optimal.decs are usually not scared of it, even in the first instances of the game.
A single solution would lose you the game because with that first & wrong Gifts components you have focused on that stupid DSC instead of improving cards' advantage.




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« Reply #337 on: August 10, 2005, 09:03:40 am »

Against FCG, Fish, etc. DSC is a solid plan.  If you want to compete with decks with Welders in them, though, you need to force yourself to see the Tendrils wins.  Once you start to see it you will be amazed how easily it can be put together.  I kill with Tendrils a fair amount even against FCG these days just because once you have resolved a big Will I would rather end the game sooner rather than later.

Leo
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« Reply #338 on: August 11, 2005, 02:30:22 am »

I played the deck in a few tournaments and I would say 80% of my victories were via Tendrils, whereas only about 20% were Colossos.  I found Draksteel to be really good against aggro decks, (especially ones with Chalice to disrupt Will, Tendrils wins).  However, I found that through the search capabilities of the deck I could usually find a way to win via Tendrils.  I mainly only Tinkered against bad decks like FCG or Fish, and only when I just sort of had it in hand.
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« Reply #339 on: August 11, 2005, 10:17:08 am »

The reason the deck needs Tinker/DSC is because without them both Burning Wish and Yawg. Will become purely win conditions and no longer win conditions that can double as utility or brokenness when needed.  Sometimes you just need to Will to stay in a game, perhaps just getting back a couple moxen and a Brainstorm.  It's hard to do that if you have to get the Storm to 10 to win.

Last night, playing against Stax, I resolved a large Will but I didn't have any Tutors available to find the Burning Wish.  I could have Brainstormed and Fetched and Brainstormed and Fetched until I found it, and it probably would have worked, but the safer play was to Rebuild his board then Mind Twist aways his hand.  That's a play I can't make if I have to rely on Tendrils for the kill.

Leo
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« Reply #340 on: August 22, 2005, 09:52:21 pm »

Rack and Ruins can be tutored by means of Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor or Demonic Tutor
I don't know if you mean Scrolling for Mystical and then Mysticaling for Rack (which is pretty inefficient), but Merchant Scroll can't find Rack and Ruin by itself.
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« Reply #341 on: August 23, 2005, 06:58:15 am »

Rack and Ruins can be tutored by means of Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor or Demonic Tutor
I don't know if you mean Scrolling for Mystical and then Mysticaling for Rack (which is pretty inefficient), but Merchant Scroll can't find Rack and Ruin by itself.
Rofl ? Read again...

Btw. are there any new stuff about gifts in general...I mean stax is all over there like slaver (which was considered bad version vs. gifts), and I see 1x M.Gifts now and then...
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doylehancock
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« Reply #342 on: August 23, 2005, 07:56:50 am »

The reason the deck needs Tinker/DSC is because without them both Burning Wish and Yawg. Will become purely win conditions and no longer win conditions that can double as utility or brokenness when needed.  Sometimes you just need to Will to stay in a game, perhaps just getting back a couple moxen and a Brainstorm.  It's hard to do that if you have to get the Storm to 10 to win.

Last night, playing against Stax, I resolved a large Will but I didn't have any Tutors available to find the Burning Wish.  I could have Brainstormed and Fetched and Brainstormed and Fetched until I found it, and it probably would have worked, but the safer play was to Rebuild his board then Mind Twist aways his hand.  That's a play I can't make if I have to rely on Tendrils for the kill.

Leo

whats you list look like?  Do you run mind twist main?
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« Reply #343 on: August 23, 2005, 03:10:33 pm »

He does not run Mind Twist main, that was post board.
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« Reply #344 on: August 23, 2005, 08:49:50 pm »

I ran Lim Dul's Vault in the maindeck of my Meandeck Gifts deck to alot of sucess at the gencon main event on saturday... I finished in 11th place with a 5-1-1 record... The card was my tech for the event, and I found it to work extremely well especially with the synergy it has with FoW/Merchant Scroll/Brainstorm... The card sets up the win extremely well... Hopfully I can properly illustrate this in my tournement report that should be up in a few days.
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« Reply #345 on: August 24, 2005, 01:18:04 am »

I ran Lim Dul's Vault in the maindeck of my Meandeck Gifts deck to alot of sucess at the gencon main event on saturday... I finished in 11th place with a 5-1-1 record... The card was my tech for the event, and I found it to work extremely well especially with the synergy it has with FoW/Merchant Scroll/Brainstorm... The card sets up the win extremely well... Hopfully I can properly illustrate this in my tournement report that should be up in a few days.

Were you running more than the two Sea main?
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« Reply #346 on: August 24, 2005, 11:14:44 am »

I have been running one Sea main.  I have some updates to the list that will probably be up on SCG sometime in the near future.....
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« Reply #347 on: August 24, 2005, 11:26:29 am »

I ran Lim Dul's Vault in the maindeck of my Meandeck Gifts deck to alot of sucess at the gencon main event on saturday... I finished in 11th place with a 5-1-1 record... The card was my tech for the event, and I found it to work extremely well especially with the synergy it has with FoW/Merchant Scroll/Brainstorm... The card sets up the win extremely well... Hopfully I can properly illustrate this in my tournement report that should be up in a few days.

Were you running more than the two Sea main?

Here is what I ran at gencon main event... It wasnt as optimal as I wanted, but performed well for me all day... Imedietly after the tourney I made some adjustments that I hope to go over in my report.

// Lands
    2  Flooded Strand
    4  Island
    3  Polluted Delta
    1  Snow-Covered Island
    1  Tolarian Academy
    2  Underground Sea
    2  Volcanic Island

// Creatures
    1  Darksteel Colossus

// Spells
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Black Lotus
    4  Brainstorm
    1  Burning Wish
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Echoing Truth
    1  Fact or Fiction
    4  Force of Will
    4  Gifts Ungiven
    1  Lim-Dul's Vault
    1  Lotus Petal
    1  Mana Crypt
    4  Mana Drain
    1  Mana Vault
    3  Merchant Scroll
    2  Misdirection
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mystical Tutor
    1  Rebuild
    1  Recoup
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Time Walk
    1  Tinker
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Yawgmoth's Will

// Sideboard
SB: 2  Back to Basics
SB: 2  Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1  Lava Dart
SB: 2  Pithing Needle
SB: 1  Pyroblast
SB: 3  Rack and Ruin
SB: 3  Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1  Tendrils of Agony

Back to Basics was a house vs. Stax (which I went 2-0 vs. against in the main event (both cron stax and more basic welder versions))
In the last day of the tourney I went up to 4 Rack and Ruin and was happy with the choice. I havent found a reason to not run 4 of them yet, and if you can resolve 1 or a hurkyls recall at the right time it can sway the decks worst matchup heavily in your favor.

I am very tempted to try cunning wish as a 1 of in the deck, because of the versatility it has with merchant scroll, and the rest of my board. I love the concept of cunning wish EoT to get rack and ruin or lava dart, and at worst its just a lesser version of merchant scroll.

I will save the rest for my report.

Kyle L
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doylehancock
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« Reply #348 on: August 24, 2005, 06:37:25 pm »

where/when you be posting your report? I as well as others are waiting so patiently.
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« Reply #349 on: August 24, 2005, 08:33:12 pm »

where/when you be posting your report? I as well as others are waiting so patiently.

It will be up by tommorrow night... I am currently recovering from a week which I averaged less then 4 hours per-day.
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« Reply #350 on: August 31, 2005, 01:07:30 am »

I have extensively discussed my SB plans in my most recent article and the control slaver and stax matchup.  Thoughts? 
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