fish which is best?

[Sorre5]

with all the fish based decks which  is the best now?

this is my current list:

W/U Fish

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
2 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Null Rod

Creatures
4 Cloud Of Faeries
3 Meddling Mage
4 Ninja Of The Deep Hours
2 Old Man Of The Sea

Enchantments
2 Seal Of Cleansing
4 Standstill

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Daze
4 Force Of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Swords To Plowshares

Sorceries
1 Time Walk

Basic Lands
3 Island
1 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
3 Tundra
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
4 Chalice Of The Void
2 Control Magic
3 Energy Flux
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Disenchant
1 Dismantling Blow
2 Swords To Plowshares

Seal Of Cleansing- Hurts prity much workshop decks....... and oath

Old Man Of The Sea- Hurts mirror match of any fish type, B/G Maddness, Welder Decks, GFC.....ect

 thanks

[Xyre]

Doug Linn wrote a great article on Fish and Worse than Fish on SCG recently. Unfortunately, my computer is having trouble reaching the site, but it will be in the archive. It's called Darwin at Work: The Evolution of Fish.
One major point he made was on the use of such cards as AEther Vial, Umezawa's Jitte, and Meddling Mage, all of which are lacking in your deck. Check out the article for ideas. Other than that, it seems fine.

[Sorre5]

ummm i cant find that guide but what do u think needs to be edited?...............thanks

[Xyre]

Here's the link for when the archive works again: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10049.html

[Sorre5]

thanks....tnanks for the help 

but do u think that flying men should be played over cloued fearies, or maby even but in Icatian Javelineers.....there good also.......but i cant find the room for some of these cards whats your oppinon

[Xyre]

Go with Rootwater Thief (or Mike Long). It strips your opponent of key cards, but it also can gain flying to Ninjitsu with.

[fitz712]

i agree i think Rootwater Theif > Flying Men

[Old Dan of the Sea]

The deck list you posted is identical to the ones Nick Rosu, and Bryan Finch ran at Star City Rochester.

[Marco]

The deck list you posted is identical to the ones Nick Rosu, and Bryan Finch ran at Star City Rochester.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

[Xyre]

I'm too lazy to check. How did they do?

[fitz712]

i think they came in 4th and 5th

[Sorre5]

yaa its like that thats where i got it from.......

but i want to fit in rootwater theif they work really good but what to take out i dunno..........could you help me.........thanks

[Sorre5]

also do i run chalis of the void over null rod?

[Xyre]

-4 Cloud of Faries, +4 Rootwater Thief.
Cloud of Faries doesn't do much to validate it's purpose in the deck.
And Chalice of the Void>Null Rod. Also see Linn's article on this one. He gives a great explanation of this.

[Sorre5]

i think i might just run the meandeck list it looks good.........

[Evilkin]

I don't know why you'd want to run Rootwater Thief.  It's terrible.  Sure you can remove cards now and then, but it's way too slow and the cards you have a chance removing may prove insignificant. 

Cloud of Faeries is one of the most important creatures in any Fish deck, not running it is a  huge mistake.  Most good players that play against the deck realise that this is best card to counter to stop fishes momento.

Null Rod's are STILL the bomb.  Play them against Vials.  Slow the hell out of your opponents while you drop other crap like Meddling Mages and Chalices and they have to try and play around Dazes using their tutors for answers instead of bombs.

Jitte isn't that good in this deck unless you are running a lot more creatures.  Your beaters still have small bodies and get removed before the Jitte gets active, and you may never use it's advantage.  Meanwhile you could have dropped a Null Rod and shut off all opposing mana.

[JDawg13]

I don't know why you'd want to run Rootwater Thief.  It's terrible.  Sure you can remove cards now and then, but it's way too slow and the cards you have a chance removing may prove insignificant.

I think one of the more overlooked benefits of using Rootwater Thief is that if you get to see your opponent's library, you gain a ton of information about what he/she has in hand.  Knowing whether your opponent has Yawg Will in hand already, or if they've got a Force in their hand that you should play around, etc etc, can be pretty huge.

Cloud of Faeries is one of the most important creatures in any Fish deck, not running it is a huge mistake.

This fact becomes significantly less true if you're running Chalice/Vial, as you don't really need to be casting a ton of spells with a Vial on the board, which is the benefit that Cloud of Faeries gives you.  The fact that it's a vanilla 1/1 after coming into play is another reason I feel it is weaker than the far more versatile Rootwater Thief.

Jitte isn't that good in this deck unless you are running a lot more creatures. Your beaters still have small bodies and get removed before the Jitte gets active, and you may never use it's advantage. Meanwhile you could have dropped a Null Rod and shut off all opposing mana.

Jitte is quite awesome in this deck, so I'm not sure what you're talking about here.  It wins the game in the mirror match, takes down pretty much anything your opponent gets into play, and increases your clock DRAMATICALLY, giving control decks far less time to find answers. 

The biggest reason I don't like Null Rod in U/W Fish right now is that Aether Vial is just such a bomb in almost any given matchup.  It lets you drop a steady stream of uncounterable beaters against control, lets you do tricks with Meddling Mage (as HiVal mentions in his article), negates any tempo lost by ninjutsu-ing in a Ninja, and frees up your mana for playing things other than creatures or attacking with Factories.  Vial is so great in the deck I can't see any reason not to run it.

[Evilkin]

OFM 2K5 has posted great results in Canada as well as the Star City P9 in Syracuse.  This is essentially U/W Fish (With Null Rods) Not using Vials, Jittes or Rootwater Thiefs...  Our Metagame Primarily consists of skilled players using decks such as TPS, Gifts, and U/W Landstill.

1st place Mox Sapphire - 50 person tournament (Played By Myself)
1st Place Bazaar of Baghdad - 35 person tournament (Played By Dan Rosu) I Finished 3-1-1 getting 9th
3rd Place as well as 4 of top 8 decks in 50 person tournament (Played By Myself, Joe Vinen, Steve Brown, Dan Rosu)
3rd Place/5th Place at Star City P9 Syracuse (Played By Nick Rosu and Myself)
A few other top 8's around here as well... but anyways...

I'm not trying to discredit the fact that certain cards the deck is not running are bad (cept maybe the Thiefs).  But that the deck has no trouble winning lots without certain cards which seem to be percieved as the optimal cards to be running.

Cloud of Faeries work because they allow you to easily drop a creature plus Mage, Rod or Standstill on turn 2 then follow that play with a Ninjitsu or Null Rod/Seal of Cleansing or whatever the following turn.  Vialing out creatures is non-essential.  I'd rather be dropping turn 1 or 2 Null Rods and getting auto wins with that combination along with the land destrutction/CoW certain games. 

It is also important to not run 1cc drops in this version since one of the main game plans is to side in Chalices and set them to 1. 

Although I've playtested Jittes, our particular version doesn't run enough creatures.  What happens is if a Cloud or Mage gets countered or killed right away you can't make any use out of the card until you get another creature which may or may not stay in play.  If you are running a more creature heavy deck then I can fully understand their use.  Such cards make a lot more sense in the Worse then Fish or Madness decks.  I'm not ready to add Fyying Men or Javelineers to the deck to make better use of Jittes and completly taking away a lot of Chalices usefulness.  Null Rod is still the best of all these cards.

I would recommend adding multiple copies of Extract to the sideboard.  I know it's being said not to be that effective, but I still think they are worth trying out.  What happens when you first turn Extract the Gifts deck Colossus.  They say they will win with Tendrils then since it's a more effective kill then Tinker/Colossus??  Well, I only ever lose to Tinker and I'd say this deck annhiliates TPS.  How do they go the Tendrils route when they are using their tutors to try and get rid of multiple Chalices, Null Rods and Meddling Mages?